Schilling: Sign Beckett -- Now

[a700hitter]

Optimism on Beckett talks.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/03/optimism_on_bec.html

[SoxSport]

It boils down to money. The parameters for a Beckett deal are all laid out by the Hernandez, Lackey, etc. deals. 5 years/80+ mil. A sticking point might be an injury clause--Bay didn't want it. Lackey accepted it. So did Drew. I recall it took awhile to work Drew's deal because of it.

 

I think they need to re-sign Beckett and VMart before the end of ST. Both are important to their near future. Buchholz isn't a sure thing--yet. Neither is Kelly.

And Dice-K may be living on borrowed time in Boston.

 

Look at the Phillies. They could have had Lee, Halladay and Hamels as their big 3. They didn't --probably because of money. It just shows how money is the limiting factor for most teams outside of NY. Hope it isn't for the Red Sox in this case--for both of those players.

[das11209]

I think they need to re-sign Beckett and VMart before the end of ST. Both are important to their near future. Buchholz isn't a sure thing--yet. Neither is Kelly.

.

 

I was really big on V-Mart signing - but now the chances have increased that Minny may actually trade Mauer - should we wait? Last time with Santana - they asked for a fortune from Yankees and Red Sox and then gave him away to the Mets - so I don't know.

[italstallianion]

I was really big on V-Mart signing - but now the chances have increased that Minny may actually trade Mauer - should we wait? Last time with Santana - they asked for a fortune from Yankees and Red Sox and then gave him away to the Mets - so I don't know.

 

 

I don't know, Minnesota may have learned from their mistake on the Santana trade. Besides, I don't think there will be much time between when Minnesota says what it wants and a team gives it to them. I bet teams would give a blank checkbook for Mauer. Especially if it's signed Cashman.

[PWNdroia]

Beckett is not an ace. Why sign the boy who cries injury? I'd only sign him if we can get him cheap. Great pitcher, but certainly not an ace. And he has a liability to get injured when the postseason comes.

[Dipre]

Beckett is not an ace. Why sign the boy who cries injury? I'd only sign him if we can get him cheap. Great pitcher' date=' but certainly not an ace. And he has a liability to get injured when the postseason comes.[/quote']

 

Interesting take on things. An injury is an injury. If he's injured and the medical staff backs up his claims, he's certainly not "making it up". Someone who pitches with a torn oblique has balls, so i don't get where this is coming from.

[PWNdroia]

Interesting take on things. An injury is an injury. If he's injured and the medical staff backs up his claims' date=' he's certainly not "making it up". Someone who pitches with a torn oblique has balls, so i don't get where this is coming from.[/quote']

 

I have nothing against Beckett- he's a great pitcher. But he proclaimed he was fine in the 2008 postseason, and look what happened there. Plus, he only mesmerized me in 2007. Other than that, Lester has been the better pitcher statistically.

[Dipre]

I have nothing against Beckett- he's a great pitcher. But he proclaimed he was fine in the 2008 postseason' date=' and look what happened there.[/quote']

 

He never proclaimed he was fine during the 2008 postseason. He tried to downplay a very real and much publicized oblique injury which lowered his velocity and ability to finish his pitching motion.

 

This is a quote from the Boston Herald, where Terry Francona is quoted talking about the oblique injury which should have knocked Beckett out of the post-season but he still pitched:

 

Late last night at Fenway Park , after the Red Sox had closed out the regular season with a 4-3 victory over the Yankees, manager Terry Francona confirmed what the Herald had reported earlier in the evening.

 

Josh Beckett has an oblique injury and will not pitch Wednesday night in Game 1 of the American League Division Series against the Los Angeles Angels in Anaheim, Calif.

 

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2008_09_28_Source:_Josh_Beckett_has_oblique_injury:_Sox_ace_may_be_in_hole/srvc=home&position=1

[PWNdroia]

He never proclaimed he was fine during the 2008 postseason. He tried to downplay a very real and much publicized oblique injury which lowered his velocity and ability to finish his pitching motion.

 

This is a quote from the Boston Herald, where Terry Francona is quoted talking about the oblique injury which should have knocked Beckett out of the post-season but he still pitched:

 

 

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2008_09_28_Source:_Josh_Beckett_has_oblique_injury:_Sox_ace_may_be_in_hole/srvc=home&position=1

 

But he went on to pitch the next series, saying he was good enough to pitch. Well, obviously he wasn't.

[Dojji]

And who was going to pitch if he didn't? You had the choice between Justin Masterson who wasn't even stretched out, or Clay Buchholz and his 7 ERA.

[Dipre]

But he went on to pitch the next series' date=' saying he was good enough to pitch. Well, obviously he wasn't.[/quote']

 

Your logic is faulty.

 

You're trying to condemn a guy because he sacrificed his body to give his team the best chance to win. Think about it. Slowly.

[VA Sox Fan]

Great interview with Schilling today on Dan Patrick's radio show. Can hear/read it on danpatrick.com later today.

[PWNdroia]

What Curt Schilling needs to do is come out of retiremnet and pitch for us. He's the reason we won in 2004 and 2007. Of course, this is silly logic, so I'll break it down. We need another horse like Schilling if we want another championship. Beckett isn't this same horse.

[BoSox21]

What Curt Schilling needs to do is come out of retiremnet and pitch for us. He's the reason we won in 2004 and 2007. Of course' date=' this is silly logic, so I'll break it down. We need another horse like Schilling if we want another championship. Beckett isn't this same horse.[/quote']

 

I'm trying to find a clever way of pointing out that 2010 Schilling isn't 2004 or even 2007 Schilling but I'm not having much luck.

[Dipre]

I'm trying to find a clever way of pointing out that 2010 Schilling isn't 2004 or even 2007 Schilling but I'm not having much luck.

 

[PWNdroia]

I'm trying to find a clever way of pointing out that 2010 Schilling isn't 2004 or even 2007 Schilling but I'm not having much luck.

 

I'll agree with that, but the point I'm trying to make is that we need a NEW Curt Schilling. Compared to Schilling, Beckett isn't worth a shilling. Ok, I'm exaggerating (as I do a lot), but a Curt Schilling type pitcher is what we need.

[Dipre]

I'll agree with that' date=' but the point I'm trying to make is that we need a NEW Curt Schilling. Compared to Schilling, Beckett isn't worth a shilling. Ok, I'm exaggerating (as I do a lot), but a Curt Schilling type pitcher is what we need.[/quote']

 

We have one. His name is Jon Lester.

[BoSox21]

I'll agree with that' date=' but the point I'm trying to make is that we need a NEW Curt Schilling. Compared to Schilling, Beckett isn't worth a shilling. Ok, I'm exaggerating (as I do a lot), but a Curt Schilling type pitcher is what we need.[/quote']

 

Borderline HOF pitchers don't grow on trees and I'd argue that our rotation's top 3 match up with any in baseball. What more can you ask for?

[PWNdroia]

Borderline HOF pitchers don't grow on trees and I'd argue that our rotation's top 3 match up with any in baseball. What more can you ask for?

 

Sure, our rotation ranks up as one of the best. That I cannot deny.

 

But I can deny the fact that we do not have a true ace. This is what I want. Halladay is an ace, Sabathia is an ace, Curt Schilling ended up being an ace (in his tenure in Boston), but Josh Beckett, or even Lester (who has been better) is not an ace.

[BoSox21]

Fine, but how many true aces are there in all of baseball? Halladay, Lincecum, Sabathia, Santana. Besides that, there aren't many (if any) guys anyone would pick over Lester.

 

Would you trade today's rotation for any of 1997-2003s rotations when we had a true ace followed by dung? I personally wouldn't.

[PWNdroia]

Fine' date=' but how many true aces are there in all of baseball? Halladay, Lincecum, Sabathia, Santana. Besides that, there aren't many (if any) guys anyone would pick over Lester.[/quote']

 

Not very many, but as you see, most of the WS winners usually have one. In 2007, we had Schilling. In 2008, Hamels was ace (when he was not injured), and in 2009 there was Sabathia.

 

Although one could argue Beckett had an ace-like season in 2007, that I can't deny. But it's his only ace season with the Sox and it's easily noticeable as we won that year and lost the others. One year of awesome pitching does not make him an ace though, especially when he has another sub-par season, and two mediocre seasons (maybe one a little less than mediocre).

[Dipre]

CC Sabathia stats: 230 IP, 3.37 ERA, 197 K, 1.14 WHIP, 127 ERA+

 

 

Jon Lester stats: 203 IP, 3.41 ERA,225 K, 1.23 WHIP, 138 ERA+.

 

 

No ace huh?

[Spudboy]

Sabathia is twice the pitcher that Lester is.

 

Just look at his waist line!

[Dipre]

Sabathia is twice the pitcher that Lester is.

 

Just look at his waist line!

 

Aces.

[PWNdroia]

CC Sabathia stats: 230 IP, 3.37 ERA, 197 K, 1.14 WHIP, 127 ERA+

 

 

Jon Lester stats: 203 IP, 3.41 ERA,225 K, 1.23 WHIP, 138 ERA+.

 

 

No ace huh?

 

Where is the # of pitches thrown and walks please? I bet Sabathia's is lower. We all know Schilling barely walked guys, that's why he's successful. I hate it when pitchers throw too many walks. It's a sign of weakness.

[riverside sluggers]

Not very many' date=' but as you see, most of the WS winners usually have one. [b']In 2007, we had Schilling.[/b] In 2008, Hamels was ace (when he was not injured), and in 2009 there was Sabathia.

 

Although one could argue Beckett had an ace-like season in 2007, that I can't deny. But it's his only ace season with the Sox and it's easily noticeable as we won that year and lost the others. One year of awesome pitching does not make him an ace though, especially when he has another sub-par season, and two mediocre seasons (maybe one a little less than mediocre).

 

Regular season

Beckett- 20-7, 3.27 ERA (30 starts) 200.2 innings, 189 Hits, 76 Runs (73 ER), 17 HRs, 40 Walks, 194 Ks

Schilling- 9-8, 3.87 ERA (24 starts) 151 innings, 165 Hits, 68 Runs (65 ER), 21 HRs, 23 Walks, 101 Ks

 

Postseason

Beckett- 4-0, 1.20 ERA (4 starts) 30 innings, 19 Hits, 4 Runs, HR, 2 Walks, 35 Ks

Schilling- 3-0, 3.00 ERA (4 starts) 24 innings, 25 Hits, 8 Runs, 3 HRs, 3 Walks, 16 Ks

 

Beckett was the ace of the 2007 staff

[Dipre]

Where is the # of pitches thrown and walks please? I bet Sabathia's is lower. We all know Schilling barely walked guys' date=' that's why he's successful. I hate it when pitchers throw too many walks. It's a sign of weakness.[/quote']

 

Lol.

 

So your resort is "Number of pitches thrown" and "Schilling barely walked guys". Ok.

 

Lester's 2009 BB/9: 2.8

 

Sabathia's 2009 BB/9: 2.6

 

Obviously Sabathia gave up three times fewer walks than Lester.

 

Or maybe not, and they were nearly identical.

[BSN07]

Where is the # of pitches thrown and walks please? I bet Sabathia's is lower. We all know Schilling barely walked guys' date=' that's why he's successful. I hate it when pitchers throw too many walks. It's a sign of weakness.[/quote']

 

Why don't you take 30 seconds and look up the stats. Maybe then you be less of a tool... Maybe.

[BSN07]

Lol.

 

So your resort is "Number of pitches thrown" and "Schilling barely walked guys". Ok.

 

Lester's 2009 BB/9: 2.8

 

Sabathia's 2009 BB/9: 2.6

 

Obviously Sabathia gave up three times fewer walks than Lester.

 

Or maybe not, and they were nearly identical.

 

Why bother doing the leg work for him? Just point and laugh as I do.

[PWNdroia]

We have one. His name is Jon Lester.

 

Close, in a couple years he should be. Still has to work on his walks.