2009 World Series: Phillies @ Yankees

[TheKilo]

I won't bother reading this thread. I'll ofer my congrats to the Yankee fans on the board, but I guess my question is does this feel a bit hollow to any of you? At all?

 

I'd be interested in hearing some of the opinions...

[Gom]

Not to me.

[TheKilo]

I find that surprising. What makes this championship special, in light of spending half the free agent dollars allocated to players last season?

 

Anything less than this would have been a complete failure. So, weren't they really just maintaining what they were supposed to do?

[Gom]

Funny...you were singing a different tune when you bought your championship in 2007 after blowing away everyone by 20 million on Dice-K's posting fee, had a side deal worked out with Drew, and tried to fix your shortstop hole with Lugo. $192 million in one shot...not counting the posting fee either [i'm not sure if I've got the math perfect, too lazy to check].

 

I don't remember too many people complaining here about the Sox buying their championship.

[Dipre]

Funny...you were singing a different tune when you bought your championship in 2007 after blowing away everyone by 20 million on Dice-K's posting fee' date=' had a side deal worked out with Drew, and tried to fix your shortstop hole with Lugo. $192 million in one shot...not counting the posting fee either [i'm not sure if I've got the math perfect, too lazy to check'].

 

I don't remember too many people complaining here about the Sox buying their championship.

 

Hilarious post.

[yankees228]

I won't bother reading this thread. I'll ofer my congrats to the Yankee fans on the board, but I guess my question is does this feel a bit hollow to any of you? At all?

 

I'd be interested in hearing some of the opinions...

 

I just want them to win, whether it be with 25 rookies, or 25 high priced free agents.

[Gom]

Hilarious post.

 

Oh you didn't? As a Yankee fan, I can't complain. Just ask the OTHER 28 teams in baseball.

 

However, that would involve you being objective...

[Dipre]

Oh you didn't? As a Yankee fan' date=' I can't complain. Just ask the [b']OTHER[/b] 28 teams in baseball.

 

However, that would involve you being objective...

 

Sure Gom.

[TheKilo]

Funny...you were singing a different tune when you bought your championship in 2007 after blowing away everyone by 20 million on Dice-K's posting fee' date=' had a side deal worked out with Drew, and tried to fix your shortstop hole with Lugo. $192 million in one shot...not counting the posting fee either [i'm not sure if I've got the math perfect, too lazy to check'].

 

I don't remember too many people complaining here about the Sox buying their championship.

 

What's hilarious is that you think the two situations are comparable in the slightest. I love how everyone but Yankee fans realize the posting fee does not count as salary...and I love the fact that when you realize this you figure out that the Yanks paid more for Teixeira OR Sabathia than the Sox did for all three, in a better economic environment.

 

Quite hilarious indeed.

[yankees228]

Funny...you were singing a different tune when you bought your championship in 2007 after blowing away everyone by 20 million on Dice-K's posting fee' date=' had a side deal worked out with Drew, and tried to fix your shortstop hole with Lugo. $192 million in one shot...not counting the posting fee either [i'm not sure if I've got the math perfect, too lazy to check'].

 

I don't remember too many people complaining here about the Sox buying their championship.

 

I don't think there is a reason to compare the two. TK asked a legitimate question, and, maybe, there are Yankee fans out there that feel that way. I just happen not to be one of them.

[example1]

What's hilarious is that you think the two situations are comparable in the slightest. I love how everyone but Yankee fans realize the posting fee does not count as salary...and I love the fact that when you realize this you figure out that the Yanks paid more for Teixeira OR Sabathia than the Sox did for all three, in a better economic environment.

 

Quite hilarious indeed.

 

The most obvious thing about Gom's response is that it reveals that he does see some merit to the argument that the Yankees bought their championship. His argument that the Red Sox did it too-and therefore are hypocritical and also guilty--doesn't deflect the original argument, it merely changes those who are in its crosshairs. It is very revealing.

 

Other people obviously understand that the Red Sox choosing to spend more than other teams by a lot on a particular player does NOT indicate that they are like the Yankees in terms of spending choices. If the Sox were willing to spend 200% more than other teams on an international signee (say, Jose Iglesias) does that represent the same action as spending $400m+ in one offseason on two marquee players and a complete dud? Not in the slightest. We see that, Gom doesn't.

[TheKilo]

Oh you didn't? As a Yankee fan' date=' I can't complain. Just ask the [b']OTHER[/b] 28 teams in baseball.

 

However, that would involve you being objective...

 

The fact that the Sox were 4th in payroll this season means nothing to you?

 

The fact that the Red Sox were closer to the San Diego Padres than the New York Yankees means nothing to you?

 

You want objectivity yet cannot produce it yourself.

[Gom]

The most obvious thing about Gom's response is that it reveals that he does see some merit to the argument that the Yankees bought their championship. His argument that the Red Sox did it too-and therefore are hypocritical and also guilty--doesn't deflect the original argument, it merely changes those who are in its crosshairs. It is very revealing.

 

Other people obviously understand that the Red Sox choosing to spend more than other teams by a lot on a particular player does NOT indicate that they are like the Yankees in terms of spending choices. If the Sox were willing to spend 200% more than other teams on an international signee (say, Jose Iglesias) does that represent the same action as spending $400m+ in one offseason on two marquee players and a complete dud? Not in the slightest. We see that, Gom doesn't.

 

Of course we used our money to win a championship. I have no qualms about this. Apparently, Red Sox fans can't face the fact that they are in the same boat. The fact remains that you spent in one off-season more than the entire payroll of all but one team.

 

As for the argument on the posting fee...that money may not count towards payroll, but it's still money. Like any other team could throw $50 million and say it doesn't count. Wake up.

 

What you fail to see is that at the time, your off-season spending binge was the highest at the time. Our spending binge this year topped YOUR previous record. Any Yankee fan who doesn't see that money helped us win a championship is clueless. Any Red Sox fan who doesn't believe they did the same in 2007 is nearly as clueless as well being a hypocrite.

[26 to 6]

We saw your picture. The only sex that you are having would be with yourself.

You saw a 3 year old picture of a bunch of dudes, grandpa. My sex life is fine, and all natural. Keep on taking your little blue pills old-timer and shut your mouth.

[Gom]

The fact that the Sox were 4th in payroll this season means nothing to you?

 

The fact that the Red Sox were closer to the San Diego Padres than the New York Yankees means nothing to you?

 

You want objectivity yet cannot produce it yourself.

 

You had the 4th highest payroll and finished 5th at best.

 

We had the highest and finished 1st.

 

I know which one I would choose. If you're not sure, look for me at the parade tomorrow.

[TheKilo]

You never answered my question, Gom. Does this title feel more hollow than the others?

[Gom]

You never answered my question' date=' Gom. Does this title feel more hollow than the others?[/quote']

 

Nope. Actually, more satisfying.

[yankees228]

The most obvious thing about Gom's response is that it reveals that he does see some merit to the argument that the Yankees bought their championship. His argument that the Red Sox did it too-and therefore are hypocritical and also guilty--doesn't deflect the original argument, it merely changes those who are in its crosshairs. It is very revealing.

 

Other people obviously understand that the Red Sox choosing to spend more than other teams by a lot on a particular player does NOT indicate that they are like the Yankees in terms of spending choices. If the Sox were willing to spend 200% more than other teams on an international signee (say, Jose Iglesias) does that represent the same action as spending $400m+ in one offseason on two marquee players and a complete dud? Not in the slightest. We see that, Gom doesn't.

 

Obviously the Yankees paid dearly to give themselves a great shot at winning a championship. I don't think anyone disagrees, regardless of what team they root for. The only difference is that you attach a negative connotation to it. As I've stated numerous times in the past, I don't see it the same way.

[TheKilo]

Of course we used our money to win a championship. I have no qualms about this. Apparently, Red Sox fans can't face the fact that they are in the same boat. The fact remains that you spent in one off-season more than the entire payroll of all but one team.

 

As for the argument on the posting fee...that money may not count towards payroll, but it's still money. Like any other team could throw $50 million and say it doesn't count. Wake up.

 

What you fail to see is that at the time, your off-season spending binge was the highest at the time. Our spending binge this year topped YOUR previous record. Any Yankee fan who doesn't see that money helped us win a championship is clueless. Any Red Sox fan who doesn't believe they did the same in 2007 is nearly as clueless as well being a hypocrite.

 

Why yes, your spending binge was just a tick shy of 3x what the Sox spent in the 2007 offseason.

 

This isn't apples to oranges, it apples to f***ing pot roast

[TheKilo]

Nope. Actually' date=' more satisfying.[/quote']

 

Now I know you're a f***ing liar, and a troll.

[yankees228]

I find that surprising. What makes this championship special, in light of spending half the free agent dollars allocated to players last season?

 

Anything less than this would have been a complete failure. So, weren't they really just maintaining what they were supposed to do?

 

I really don't think you're going to find any Yankee fans that are going to answer "yes" to that question.

 

There will be those who truly don't care how much money each team spends, and there will be those who are just blind to it because of their fandom.

[Gom]

Why yes, your spending binge was just a tick shy of 3x what the Sox spent in the 2007 offseason.

 

This isn't apples to oranges, it apples to f***ing pot roast

 

We both bought Championships. Keep in mind...we also took off a ton of payroll as well. It was simply a reallocation of funds. With the signings....our payroll actually went DOWN from the season before. The same thing will probably happen this year even if we get Holliday or Lackey....or both. We are shedding bad contracts and getting good players for the same/less money.

[Gom]

Now I know you're a f***ing liar' date=' and a troll.[/quote']

 

Not at all. It's been a while, and this troop hadn't won anything in a long time. Twice we had leads, once against the Marlins in 2003 and the Sox in 2004 and couldn't close it out. I'd also never seen a World Series clincher at home in the Stadium. We got spoiled winning 4 out of 5, and none of them were really close, except for the first one. You're a f***ing moron who is bitter that your first championship was nothing but a fraud orchestrated by two confirmed cheaters who fueled your miracle run by PEDs and by buying your second championship.

 

I'll say this...last night was vintage Pettitte and Mo, with a career night for Hideki. Last night=classic. Pardon my language here, but Yankee-haters: pour yourselves a nice, frosty mug of shut the f*** up.

[yankees228]

Not at all. It's been a while, and this troop hadn't won anything in a long time. Twice we had leads, once against the Marlins in 2003 and the Sox in 2004 and couldn't close it out. I'd also never seen a World Series clincher at home in the Stadium. We got spoiled winning 4 out of 5, and none of them were really close, except for the first one.

 

I'll say this...last night was vintage Pettitte and Mo, with a career night for Hideki. Last night=classic. Pardon my language here, but Yankee-haters: pour yourselves a nice, frosty mug of shut the f*** up.

 

That's great that you were there. I hope you really enjoyed it.

 

I don't usually get into rooting for individual players, or feeling good for individual players, but I'm really happy for A-Rod. For me, him winning a championship was the cherry on top.

[yankees228]

Gom, was this your favorite game that you've been to?

[example1]

Obviously the Yankees paid dearly to give themselves a great shot at winning a championship. I don't think anyone disagrees' date=' regardless of what team they root for. The only difference is that you attach a negative connotation to it. As I've stated numerous times in the past, I don't see it the same way.[/quote']

 

Gom and I have had this discussion. He's as predictable as a book I've read 10 times.

 

He continually uses the hypocracy argument to prove that someone else's point was wrong. It is one of the most common logical fallacies one can find, and it shows that Gom isn't smart enough to know any better.

 

----

Person A: Smoking is bad

 

Person B: You smoke, so smoking isn't bad

----

 

Red Sox Fan: The Yankees have a competitive advantage that delegitimizes the impressiveness of their wins.

 

Gom: The Red Sox have a competitive advantage too, just like the Yankees do. Their wins would have to be delegitimized too. You won't delegitimize them, so the Yankees wins are legit.

 

 

It is a juvenile argument made by someone who doesn't know better. His argument would also require that everyone accept that the degree of competitive advantage (or 'buying of championships') is the same in both cases.

 

Even if we were to grant that premise (which nobody in their right mind would), it would in no way legitimize that behavior. The fact that he doesn't address this disadvantage in his argument tells me he has no interest in defending the behavior.

 

it is easier to call hypocracy like a 10 year old child than to actually argue that the Yankee don't have an enormous advantage that, as Kilo said, makes anything OTHER than winning the World Series an abject failure.

 

Because the Yankees exist, the case is not the same with the Sox (i.e, their payroll does not demand winning every year, because it isn't close to the same payroll as the Yankees).

 

The argument is really, really clear. Gom just doesn't get it.

 

That's fine, he can enjoy his false sense of superiority. I'm afraid of what would happen if that were taken away from him. It's all he has.

[Gom]

Gom' date=' was this your favorite game that you've been to?[/quote']

 

It's hard to choose.

 

Both games in 95

Dave Justice in 00

Brosius in 01

Boone in 03

Arod against the Twins

 

That's just the playoff games....

 

Not to mention

 

Coming back from 6 runs down against the Guardians in the ninth in 07

Jeter's dive in the stands 04

Arod wins it against the Red Sox in 15 innings 09

 

Lots of choices. As for pure excitement, Boone in 03. As for most shocking, Brosius in 01.

 

If I had to pick...Boone in 03. My brother, father and myself at the game, it was my brother's birthday, and the game itself wasn't that bad.

 

Last night was the most satisfying, however.

[yankees228]

It's hard to choose.

 

Both games in 95

Dave Justice in 98

Brosius in 01

Boone in 03

Arod against the Twins

 

That's just the playoff games....

 

Not to mention

 

Coming back from 6 runs down against the Guardians in the ninth in 07

Jeter's dive in the stands 04

Arod wins it against the Red Sox in 15 innings 09

 

Lots of choices. As for pure excitement, Boone in 03. As for most shocking, Brosius in 01.

 

If I had to pick...Boone in 03. My brother, father and myself at the game, it was my brother's birthday, and the game itself wasn't that bad.

 

Last night was the most satisfying, however.

 

I'm assuming you mean Justice in 2000? I'm not sure if you know what he said to reporters after the game, but I absolutely loved it. He told all the reporters that he just wished all of them could feel the way he felt when that ball left his bat. Pretty great stuff.

 

The only playoff game I've been to on your list is Boone, which was obviously spectacular. I'm not really sure which one was my favorite thought. I've seen them win the World Series once, which was in 1999. Game two of the 1996 ALDS was also great, watching them come back against Ken Hill, and seeing Jeter score on Palmer's bad throw.

 

Were you at either of the series clinchers in 2001? The emotion in that stadium those two nights was absolutely amazing.

 

Anyway, I know you didn't ask me lol, but I just really enjoy talking about this kind of thing, and I figured this was the appropriate time to look back on some of these games haha.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm assuming you mean Justice in 2000? I'm not sure if you know what he said to reporters after the game, but I absolutely loved it. He told all the reporters that he just wished all of them could feel the way he felt when that ball left his bat. Pretty great stuff.

 

The only playoff game I've been to on your list is Boone, which was obviously spectacular. I'm not really sure which one was my favorite thought. I've seen them win the World Series once, which was in 1999. Game two of the 1996 ALDS was also great, watching them come back against Ken Hill, and seeing Jeter score on Palmer's bad throw.

 

Were you at either of the series clinchers in 2001? The emotion in that stadium those two nights was absolutely amazing.

 

Anyway, I know you didn't ask me lol, but I just really enjoy talking about this kind of thing, and I figured this was the appropriate time to look back on some of these games haha.

 

 

Obviously I've never been to a YS playoff game, but playoff games are awesome in general to be at. I was at 2004 ALCS Game 5 and 2007 World Series Game 1, those are probably my favorites (the WS game was a blowout, but it's my only World Series game).

[yankees228]

That's fair E1. I know your position on the Yankees' spending, and it's definitely a reasonable one. I believe we had this same conversation earlier in the playoffs, so I think you know mine as well. I understand that it's convenient for a Yankee fan to feel the way I do, therefore I understand if you equate my feelings to my fandom.