2009 World Series: Phillies @ Yankees

[Lester82]

I do think that the Yankees are teetering on the brink of a big offensive game.

 

Lee tired in the 8th, it was more that.

[Dipre]

Wow.... Teix hitting line drives in last year's ALDS....

 

Oooooooh, impressive

 

They were still all singles, he hardly killed the Sox at all.

 

I suggest you find out the context of things before commenting, champ.

 

Go through the thread.

[yankees228]

Lee tired in the 8th' date=' it was more that.[/quote']

 

I'm not just talking about tonight, although the point remains that they had some good swings. This was not the Lee that they faced in game one. They got much better swings on him tonight, and those finally resulted in runs. They also hit Madson hard, who had been getting the best of them all series.

 

That's all on top of the fact that they scored eight runs in game three and seven runs in game four.

 

Here's my point. The Yankees have not really looked great this postseason. They've showed some flashes, but, overall, they've been carried by their pitching. Now they've put three good offensive games together away from their home ballpark. They're going home, swinging the bats better, and facing a right handed pitcher who they have already seen this series. I think it sets up for the Yankees to have a good offensive game.

 

Now, you clearly seem to hate the Yankees. That's fair. You probably also think very highly of Pedro. That's fair too. But through your hatred and fandom, you cannot deny that the above post contains nothing but logic.

[a700hitter]

The '86 Sox might have been underdogs' date=' but they were one out away from clinching with a 3-2 lead. [/quote']I really think that the 1960 Yankees have the distinction of the biggest World Series choke. They let a vastly inferior Pirate team come back from a 3 - run deficit in the 8th inning of game 7 by giving up a 5 spot in the bottom of the 8th. Three of those runs came after 2 men were out. Then after tying the game in the top of the 9th, they gave up the first WS walkoff HR to light-hitting Bill Mazeroski. My cousin was 10 years old at the time. He told me that he threw up for two weeks after that World Series.

[yankees228]

I really think that the 1960 Yankees have the distinction of the biggest World Series choke. They let a vastly inferior Pirate team come back from a 3 - run deficit in the 8th inning of game 7 by giving up a 5 spot in the bottom of the 8th. Three of those runs came after 2 men were out. Then after tying the game in the top of the 9th' date=' they gave up the first WS walkoff HR to light-hitting Bill Mazeroski. My cousin was 10 years old at the time. He told me that he threw up for two weeks after that World Series.[/quote']

 

It all depends how you define "choke". The Yankees actually trailed 3-2 in that series. If that is your definition of a choke then I don't see how you can define the 2004 ALCS as a choke.

[a700hitter]

If it goes to a game 7, lee will have a couple of days of and he might be able to give the Phillies a couple of innings in game 7.

[Dipre]

If it goes to a game 7' date=' lee will have a couple of days of and he might be able to give the Phillies a couple of innings in game 7.[/quote']

 

Why the f*** did Manuel bring him out for the 8th inning?

 

That's all i'm asking.

[a700hitter]

It all depends how you define "choke". The Yankees actually trailed 3-2 in that series. If that is your definition of a choke then I don't see how you can define the 2004 ALCS as a choke.

That makes perfect sense. :what: The Yanks have the worst WS late inning choke in a deciding game IMO. They also have the biggest choke distinction in 2004, by doing something that had never been done in the history of the game.

[a700hitter]

Pettitte is looking for a good vein tonight. He need the HGH to be fast acting. I'm sure that he'll say aprayer first and seek the good Lord's guidance before he injects himself.

[yankees228]

That makes perfect sense. The Yanks have the worst WS late inning choke in a deciding game IMO. They also have the biggest choke distinction in 2004' date=' by doing something that had never been done in the history of the game.[/quote']

 

But you're creating two meanings of the word "choke". In one instance you're calling a loss a choke because one team lost to a vastly inferior team. In another instance you're calling a loss a choke because a team blew a large series lead.

 

As for the first definition, I don't put what the 1960 Yankees did quite on the same level as what the 1986 Red Sox did. If you want to talk about things that have never been done in the history of the game, 1986 fits right into that category. The 1986 Red Sox remain the only team in the history of baseball to be one out away from winning the World Series, and eventually losing it.

[bsox0407]

Pettitte is looking for a good vein tonight. He need the HGH to be fast acting. I'm sure that he'll say aprayer first and seek the good Lord's guidance before he injects himself.

 

Pettitte is gonna bring all that is left of what he has got for this year. Pedro who is on regular rest has a slight edge IMHO. Doesn't mean it will turn out for the best but if he does another game 2 and Howard and Ibanez gets hot at the right point this could go seven.

 

As for charlie manual letting Lee out for another inning is beyond me. i understand the yankees still were not out of the game but he needed to go to the bullpen. save lee for bullpen help. maybe he should be their closer when he isn't starting. 4 out of every 5 days he closes.

[Dipre]

Pettitte is gonna bring all that is left of what he has got for this year. Pedro who is on regular rest has a slight edge IMHO. Doesn't mean it will turn out for the best but if he does another game 2 and Howard and Ibanez gets hot at the right point this could go seven.

 

As for charlie manual letting Lee out for another inning is beyond me. i understand the yankees still were not out of the game but he needed to go to the bullpen. save lee for bullpen help. maybe he should be their closer when he isn't starting. 4 out of every 5 days he closes.

 

I'm speechless.

[bsox0407]

I'm speechless.

 

forgot the :lol:. meant to be a joke. im really not that DUMB as many of you guys think i am. :lol:

[a700hitter]

But you're creating two meanings of the word "choke". In one instance you're calling a loss a choke because one team lost to a vastly inferior team. In another instance you're calling a loss a choke because a team blew a large series lead.

 

As for the first definition, I don't put what the 1960 Yankees did quite on the same level as what the 1986 Red Sox did. If you want to talk about things that have never been done in the history of the game, 1986 fits right into that category. The 1986 Red Sox remain the only team in the history of baseball to be one out away from winning the World Series, and eventually losing it.

There's no one definition. In one Series the Yankees were up 3 runs in a game 7 with 6 outs left and lost the lead tied the game and then lost it. That was brutal. In 1986, game 6 was a brutal loss, but it was not a World Series losing loss, because it was only game 6. 2004 speaks for itself. To be one win away and lose 4 in a row. Well, that's pretty brutal.

[Dipre]

forgot the :lol:. meant to be a joke. im really not that DUMB as many of you guys think i am. :lol:

 

If you don't put the smileys, you're leaving it up for debate.

[bsox0407]

If you don't put the smileys' date=' you're leaving it up for debate.[/quote']

 

i know thats why im just gonna put smileys on everything and get banned for using them to much. :lol::DB):o:D:lol:

[yankees228]

There's no one definition. In one Series the Yankees were up 3 runs in a game 7 with 6 outs left and lost the lead tied the game and then lost it. That was brutal. In 1986' date=' game 6 was a brutal loss, but it was not a World Series losing loss, because it was only game 6. 2004 speaks for itself. To be one win away and lose 4 in a row. Well, that's pretty brutal.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I agree that 2004 is a choke, I'm just disagreeing that 1960 deserves to even be mentioned in the same sentence. While game six did not lose the series for the Red Sox, they had a chance to win it. Once you let the series move past that game, it becomes extraordinarily difficult for that team to win it. The 1986 Red Sox were one strike away from winning the World Series. It's simply my opinion, but, for me, it does not get any worse than that.

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' I agree that 2004 is a choke, I'm just disagreeing that 1960 deserves to even be mentioned in the same sentence. While game six did not lose the series for the Red Sox, they had a chance to win it. Once you let the series move past that game, it becomes extraordinarily difficult for that team to win it. The 1986 Red Sox were one strike away from winning the World Series. It's simply my opinion, but, for me, it does not get any worse than that.[/quote']You are too young to have experienced 1960. The Yankees were huge favorites. The combined score of the 3 games that they won the won was 38-3. The 4 games they lost they lost by a combined score of 24-17. To top it all off they cough up a 3 run lead in the 9th and lose it in the 9th. Bruuutal. Mazeroski made it to the HOF based on that one game. That's how big it was. Mookie and Ray Knight will never get to the Hall. In my mind it is the worst, although you will never see it on Yes yankee Classics.

[yankees228]

You are too young to have experienced 1960. The Yankees were huge favorites. The combined score of the 3 games that they won the won was 38-3. The 4 games they lost they lost by a combined score of 24-17. To top it all off they cough up a 3 run lead in the 9th and lose it in the 9th. Bruuutal. Mazeroski made it to the HOF based on that one game. That's how big it was. Mookie and Ray Knight will never get to the Hall. In my mind it is the worst' date=' although you will never see it on Yes yankee Classics.[/quote']

 

Absolutely brutal, however, I think it goes down as more of a fluke than anything. It's a devastating loss, no doubt, but I just don't see it as one of the greatest chokes of all time.

 

However, I'm a bit disappointed in you a700. I expected to hear the story about how Mantle was so crushed by the loss that he cried the entire flight back home. For a die hard Yankee hater, I can't imagine too many better stories to tell.

[yankees228]

AJ talked about the fact that he let the entire city down tonight. This reminds me of Trey Junkin. Bad, bad memories.

[a700hitter]

Absolutely brutal, however, I think it goes down as more of a fluke than anything. It's a devastating loss, no doubt, but I just don't see it as one of the greatest chokes of all time.

 

However, I'm a bit disappointed in you a700. I expected to hear the story about how Mantle was so crushed by the loss that he cried the entire flight back home. For a die hard Yankee hater, I can't imagine too many better stories to tell.

I didn't know Mantle. However, the thought of my prick cousin throwing up for days or a week or so makes laugh. 1960 might have been considered a fluke if game 7 had been tied all game and Maz got lucky, but those are not the facts. They had a 3 run lead to start the bottom of the 8th and a 2-run lead with 2 outs in the 8th of a deciding game 7.

[a700hitter]

Absolutely brutal, however, I think it goes down as more of a fluke than anything. It's a devastating loss, no doubt, but I just don't see it as one of the greatest chokes of all time.

 

However, I'm a bit disappointed in you a700. I expected to hear the story about how Mantle was so crushed by the loss that he cried the entire flight back home. For a die hard Yankee hater, I can't imagine too many better stories to tell.

Look at the bright side. If the Yankees blow this series, it will probably not be their biggest WS choke.

 

If I was a Yankee fan, I would not be worried about the team choking. I'd be concerned that Girardi could panic in these last two games if things go bad for Pettitte at the start of game 6.

[yankees228]

Look at the bright side. If the Yankees blow this series, it will probably not be their biggest WS choke.

 

If I was a Yankee fan, I would not be worried about the team choking. I'd be concerned that Girardi could panic in these last two games if things go bad for Pettitte at the start of game 6.

 

A sense of desperation, on Joe's part, might turn into a positive. I'm hoping that, if the situation presents itself, he might be willing to go with Rivera for seven outs.

[a700hitter]

A sense of desperation' date=' on Joe's part, might turn into a positive. I'm hoping that, if the situation presents itself, he might be willing to go with Rivera for seven outs.[/quote']Wow, 7 outs. Do you think he'll have the balls to go to him in the 7th... even protecting a 1 run game?

[The_Destroyah]

Wow' date=' 7 outs. Do you think he'll have the balls to go to him in the 7th... even protecting a 1 run game?[/quote']

 

I dont see him doing it in game 6 but game 7 I can for sure see it.

[yankees228]

Wow' date=' 7 outs. Do you think he'll have the balls to go to him in the 7th... even protecting a 1 run game?[/quote']

 

I would, and it's something he's already done in this postseason (getting seven outs). At this point they simply cannot trust anyone else. Also, if Pettitte struggles, the knowledge that you're willing to extend Rivera longer than usual means you can go to your better bullpen arms earlier.

 

If the Yankees put Rivera on the mound, with a lead, and he blows it, at least I can't look back and say I wish they did something differently. If given the opportunity, always put your season in the hands of your best player. At least those are my feelings on the matter.

[a700hitter]

I would, and it's something he's already done in this postseason (getting seven outs). At this point they simply cannot trust anyone else. Also, if Pettitte struggles, the knowledge that you're willing to extend Rivera longer than usual means you can go to your better bullpen arms earlier.

 

If the Yankees put Rivera on the mound, with a lead, and he blows it, at least I can't look back and say I wish they did something differently. If given the opportunity, always put your season in the hands of your best player. At least those are my feelings on the matter.

If the Phils eek out a run in the 2 1/3 innings to tie it, then the yanks will go to extra innings with no guns in the pen. If that were to happen and the yanks were to lose the series in the 10th innings with Mo in the clubhouse, Girardi would get crucified.

[yankees228]

If the Phils eek out a run in the 2 1/3 innings to tie it' date=' then the yanks will go to extra innings with no guns in the pen. If that were to happen and the yanks were to lose the series in the 10th innings with Mo in the clubhouse, Girardi would get crucified.[/quote']

 

He would, but (and I know this means nothing) I could live him going for the kill with Rivera. However, it really does come down to the exact situation. Obviously, coming off two full days of rest, if they have any sort of lead going into the eighth inning on Wednesday, we'll see Girardi go to Rivera for six outs.

[RedSoxRooter]

So Petey on Wed??? Hells yeah!!!!

[Divinity]

If the Yankees don't walk away with the W in Game 6, what are the chances Cole Hamels will outduel C.C. Sabathia in Game 7?