Red Sox Re-Acquire Alex Gonzalez

[Cocos Disciples]

Source? And what was the price tag?

 

Source. Price tag was a mediocre MiLB SS.

[CrespoBlows]

Have you ever watched Gonzalez play defense? Gonzalez is a great defensive shortstop. His UZR is a +4 and has commited only 6 errors in 266 chances. Green has 14 errors in 308 chances and a UZR of-5.0 and a .955 Fielding percentage. It is stupid to compare Nick Green who is a below average defensive shortstop and Gonzalez who is a great defensive shortstop. This is comparing Apples and Oranges.

 

but he doesn't make nearly the amount of errors that Green does.

 

I agree with you on the error part, but I don't think your numbers are correct. Fangraphs has Green at +3.3, and Gonzalez at +2.0.

[WhiskeyBreath]

they need someone that can hit alittle and he cant. i would take a little less D at this point.

 

No, they need someone who can get the job done defensively right now. Anything from the bat would be just a bonus.

[CrespoBlows]

Source? And what was the price tag?

 

Went pretty cheap to the Twins.

[TedWilliams101]

Risky' date=' because he's so far over his career norms right now (in his mid-30s) that he could see the rug pulled out from under him at any time. [/quote']

 

Still better than Gonzo right now.

 

I think they would have opted for him is he was truly available.

 

He was traded to Min, he was available and we obviously weren't interested enough.

 

Not a chance' date=' Rockies are also in contention.[/quote']

I never think the Rockies are in contention because they suck so bad. How great it is to be in the NL West.

 

See O-Cab

 

If Cleveland is in rebuilding mode and sticking with Cabrera, why would they need to keep Peralta?

 

Not a chance.

 

Arizona isn't going anywhere, I'm sure they would at least listen to offers. Same with Andrus.

 

Not a good player anymore.

 

Way better than Gonzalez right now.

 

The Hardy that just got banished to the minors?

 

Again, better than Gonzalez with huge upside. His value is likely also down because of the slump.

[SoxSport]

Whats UZR?

 

That's a fair question. LOL. One of those defensive stats which are fine but can be misleading because they depend on the number of chances. It's like OPS, etc. for hitting. You have to have a lot of at bats for the numbers to be meaningful.

 

I wouldn't trust any such numbers for AGon recently, since he's been injured and hasn't played enough for the numbers to be significant. A scout can tell more just by watching him in the field for a few games.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Source. Price tag was a mediocre MiLB SS.

Has he been available during the waiver period?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Went pretty cheap to the Twins.

And how about the waiver period?

 

And why didn't Theo make that move, then?

[CrespoBlows]

That's a fair question. LOL. One of those defensive stats which are fine but can be misleading because they depend on the number of chances. It's like OPS, etc. for hitting. You have to have a lot of at bats for the numbers to be meaningful.

 

I wouldn't trust any such numbers for AGon recently, since he's been injured and hasn't played enough for the numbers to be significant. A scout can tell more just by watching him in the field for a few games.

 

Umm... no.

[BSN07]

Has he been available during the waiver period?

 

I think they were implying to when he was available before he was traded to the Twins.

[cobra24]

Is Gonzalez going to be in Texas tonight?

[TedWilliams101]

Has he been available during the waiver period?

 

Have we not had major problems (revolving door) at SS since 2004? Of course we weren't looking to upgrade SS before the trading deadline; Green is soo good he is a career minor leaguer and Lowrie has shown us soo much and is an iron horse...

 

Theo needed to make more moves before the trading deadline. He didn't and we are now getting screwed.

 

Also, Now wouldn't have been a bad time to have Lugo around. As much as it is a pain watching him field, I think I would rather have him as a backup at this point than Gonzalez.

[a700hitter]

Typical a700. Everything now now now. Don't care about this off season or next season, only now. We shouldn't be shocked.

We will just concentrate on Guzman's performance. Not the teams.

 

Guzman comes in. hits .270 .330 OBP couple HR's. He hits ok, but his defense is not good. Would that be worth the move? Can you honestly expect more then that out of him?

 

 

I basically just describes what Julio Lugo was in Boston. Guzman=Lugo. Do you really want him at SS now and for 2010?

 

Let me run a scenario by you since you normally like to do the "worst case" variety.

 

What if the acquire him and it keeps them from going after a legit young SS this off season? You would be first in line trashing the FO and be cursing Guzman's name. If you don't believe me just think if this headline, " Sox back out of Hanley deal. Sox are committed to Guzman for 2010".

A team like the Red Sox has the financial resources to compete now and plan for the future. Small market teams have to chose between those options. The Red Sox do not. You guys worry about the FO money more than they do. They have thrown boatloads of cash at players for performances that don't come close to justifying those payments-- $70 million for Drew, $36 million for Lugo and a whopping $102 million for Dice K. I really don't want to hear that the $52 million posting fee doesn't count, because it isn't payroll. If you want to talk finances, that $52 million affects the bottom line. They throw $ around like stupid drunken sailors, but if I post my opinion that thy should get a serviceable SS, you castigate me. "Look at a700, he always wants to win now. He doesn't care about the future." I'm tired of that malarkey. The fans pay the highest ticket prices in baseball, and we have to watch Nick Green at SS all season? This is what all of our money buys us at SS? He must be close to being the worst SS in baseball. Red Sox revenue is toward the top of the league, so why shouldn't we expect a better SS... just something that's not embarrassing? Something is wrong with this picture when one of the richest teams has the worst SS. It's not the fans fault. It's the fault of the FO. So, yes I want Guzman and yes I could care less about the $8 million among the scores of millions that this FO has flushed down the toilet.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Is Gonzalez going to be in Texas tonight?

 

Most likely not.

[CrespoBlows]

And how about the waiver period?

 

And why didn't Theo make that move, then?

 

I think it was because Lowrie was available at the time. As for Glove-Noodlebat SS, Jed Lowrie fits the bill when he gets back.

[Cocos Disciples]

Has he been available during the waiver period?

 

No, but shortstop was a problem before the deadline and Cabrera could have been acquired.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Still better than Gonzo right now.

 

Also more expensive, since Scutaro could end up being a Type A free agent.

 

He was traded to Min, he was available and we obviously weren't interested enough.

 

And why not?

 

If Cleveland is in rebuilding mode and sticking with Cabrera, why would they need to keep Peralta?

 

Because there's two middle infield spots.

 

Arizona isn't going anywhere, I'm sure they would at least listen to offers.

 

Drew is cheap and one of the only bright spots in their organization right now. I think they'd trade Haren before Drew.

 

Same with Andrus.

 

Andrus plays for the Rangers, the very team we're facing this weekend in a critical series with wild card implications. I think they're in it. Andrus is also very young and under control for a while. He will not be traded unless Jon Daniels is a total idiot.

 

Way better than Gonzalez right now.

 

Eckstein? No.

 

Again, better than Gonzalez with huge upside. His value is likely also down because of the slump.

 

So why wasn't he acquired?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think it was because Lowrie was available at the time.

Great point.

 

As for Glove-Noodlebat SS, Jed Lowrie fits the bill when he gets back.

 

The FO knows more than we do about his injury, and maybe that contributed to them making this move.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Have we not had major problems (revolving door) at SS since 2004? Of course we weren't looking to upgrade SS before the trading deadline; Green is soo good he is a career minor leaguer and Lowrie has shown us soo much and is an iron horse...

As Crespo said, the FO was thinking Lowrie would be the answer at that point. Well, he's on the DL again. Shame on the FO for not forseeing that.

[a700hitter]

As Crespo said' date=' the FO was thinking Lowrie would be the answer at that point. Well, he's on the DL again. Shame on the FO for not forseeing that.[/quote']You say that sarcastically, but he did have surgery, and originally they thought it would be season ending surgery. After the operation the medical staff felt that he could rehab and come back. Lowrie getting reinjured or not getting back to full form this season was not completely unforeseeable. They had no contingency plan.

[TedWilliams101]

As Crespo said' date=' the FO was thinking Lowrie would be the answer at that point. Well, he's on the DL again. Shame on the FO for not forseeing that.[/quote']

 

Yes, because Lowrie has been sooo impressive so far. The point is that they got one of the worst SS right now. How can you be happy with that? How does a -.7 WAR help the team? The only way this works out is if Gonzalez goes on a tear, but there really isn't anything to suggest he will. He sucks right now, like, really really bad (.258 OBP).

[italstallianion]

UZR in 2006 11.8

UZR now 2.0

 

 

For the record, his UZR/150 is 4.0

[BSN07]

A team like the Red Sox has the financial resources to compete now and plan for the future. Small market teams have to chose between those options. The Red Sox do not. You guys worry about the FO money more than they do. They have thrown boatloads of cash at players for performances that don't come close to justifying those payments-- $70 million for Drew' date=' $36 million for Lugo and a whopping $102 million for Dice K. I really don't want to hear that the $52 million posting fee doesn't count, because it isn't payroll. If you want to talk finances, that $52 million affects the bottom line. They throw $ around like stupid drunken sailors, but if I post my opinion that thy should get a serviceable SS, you castigate me. "Look at a700, he always wants to win now. He doesn't care about the future." I'm tired of that malarkey. The fans pay the highest ticket prices in baseball, and we have to watch Nick Green at SS all season? This is what all of our money buys us at SS? He must be close to being the worst SS in baseball. Red Sox revenue is toward the top of the league, so why shouldn't we expect a better SS... just something that's not embarrassing? Something is wrong with this picture when one of the richest teams has the worst SS. It's not the fans fault. It's the fault of the FO. So, yes I want Guzman and yes I could care less about the $8 million among the scores of millions that this FO has flushed down the toilet.[/quote']

 

You could care less about the 8M. But the owners might care a great deal, even if they are making a lot of money. There million and billionaire's for a reason. Like I said you will be cussing Guzman and the owners and whoever else is he prevents the Sox from adding someone of consequence.

 

But you will be loving it when Agon is gone after October and the Sox are free to pursue whoever.

[CrespoBlows]

Yes' date=' because Lowrie has been sooo impressive so far. The point is that they got one of the worst SS right now. How can you be happy with that? How does a -.7 WAR help the team? The only way this works out is if Gonzalez goes on a tear, but there really isn't anything to suggest he will. He sucks right now, like, really really bad (.258 OBP).[/quote']

 

Yes, but he'd most likely be the best defensive option, and it's unlikely he'd continue to hit this poorly.

[TedWilliams101]

Also more expensive' date=' since Scutaro could end up being a Type A free agent.[/quote']

 

Oh my, he is a little more expensive! Don't break the bank! Who cares if he is gone after this season? We need to eventually find a long-term solution to SS (Hanley Ramirez, damn it). Right now, though, we need to get the best band-aid available and I don't think Gonzalez is it.

[italstallianion]

I've read in a lot of places that we could have had Orlando Cabrera for pretty cheap. I heard Oakland wanted Fernando Cabrera and someone else. I forget who but it was one of those older AAAA players in Pawtucket that I'm confident almost everyone here would agree is expendable.

 

And the Sox were in on the deal but Cabrera did not want to come to Boston. It was clear that bridges were burned on his way out the last time and that it wasn't going to work. If Orlando Cabrera were a robot and you exchanged his personality with someone elses (but kept the playing ability), he'd most likely be in Boston right now. We had the chance at a great deal but Cabrera was definitely not coming back to Boston.

[BSN07]

This could be the first move. It wouldn't be unthinkable they got Agon for insurance just in case they can't pull another deal off. Maybe they add someone else and let Green go before September 1.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Yes' date=' because Lowrie has been sooo impressive so far. The point is that they got one of the worst SS right now. How can you be happy with that? How does a -.7 WAR help the team? The only way this works out is if Gonzalez goes on a tear, but there really isn't anything to suggest he will. He sucks right now, like, really really bad (.258 OBP).[/quote']

Everyone knows about his offensive incompetence. That's not what he's being acquired for. He's a reasonably good defender who isn't nearly as error-happy as Green. You're not going to find all-around good shortstops this time of year. No matter who we acquired to fill this void, the board would be just about split on it.

[TedWilliams101]

Yes' date=' but he'd most likely be the best defensive option, and it's unlikely he'd continue to hit this poorly.[/quote']

 

The guys is a career .246, .293, .393, .687 and is beyond struggling this season. He is likely near the end of his career. I don't see how you can see him improving enough to be valuable.

[a700hitter]

You could care less about the 8M. But the owners might care a great deal, even if they are making a lot of money. There million and billionaire's for a reason. Like I said you will be cussing Guzman and the owners and whoever else is he prevents the Sox from adding someone of consequence.

 

But you will be loving it when Agon is gone after October and the Sox are free to pursue whoever.

I'm sure they do care about the $8 million, but they have acted irresponsibly in the past, so why would I care if they overpaid for one more player for one stinking year? They usually overpay for 4, 5, or 6 years when they screw up. A 1 year $8 miilion hit for a SS when they spent $5.5 million on Smoltz and another $5 million on Penny? $8 million on Guzman would be a bargain compare to that.