Theo wants Felix Hernandez

[Paradisecity]

Maybe these last few weeks will convince the Yawkey Way Brain Trust that showing up at Wal Mart and buying a half dozen items that may break in a week isn't as good as going to Bed Bath and Beyond and buying two useful items that you need.

 

Christ.

[Dipre]

There worst OF that I ever saw assembled by the Red Sox was Daubach LF Pride CF and Frye RF.

 

I had tickets for that game. When I saw the lineup, all I could do was shake my head. I said, we've come a long way from Rice, Lynn, and Evans with Yaz and Carbo and Benitez.

 

Daubach was a 1B, Frye a second baseman and the only real OFer who was responsible for directing traffic was Pride and he was deaf. There could have been a real trainwreck that night.

 

Well we've got two darn good OFs an Youk tonight.

 

What's the worst that could happen?

 

This could even work in our favor with everyone trying to hit to Left.:lol::lol:

[jacksonianmarch]

Maybe these last few weeks will convince the Yawkey Way Brain Trust that showing up at Wal Mart and buying a half dozen items that may break in a week isn't as good as going to Bed Bath and Beyond and buying two useful items that you need.

 

Christ.

 

I don't know. I don't know if we'll have enough time.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't know. I don't know if we'll have enough time.

 

It should be a pretty nice little Saturday.

[jacksonianmarch]

OK, you know what? You know what? Gimme that thing! I'll do one, do one.

[BoSox21]

once it hits your lips, it's so good

[SoxSport]

Somebody said "in the old days" young pitchers worked their way into the starting rotation from the bullpen. That is still the practice with many ML teams--just not the Red Sox. They seem to think starters are starters and relievers are relievers. I would like to see Mazz et al discuss that. I wonder about a few things the Red Sox do with their pitching. Obviously, it isn't all bad. But you wonder about 100 pitches and out--sure to wear out a bullpen, and one inning per relief appearance. Why not 2 innings and fewer relievers per game?

 

What is happening right now is Beckett and Lester are being extended late into games to relieve the bullpen, because the other starters can't last 6 innings and the bullpen has been overworked. A case of the starters relieving the relievers. Houston, we have a problem.

[SoxSport]

Maybe these last few weeks will convince the Yawkey Way Brain Trust that showing up at Wal Mart and buying a half dozen items that may break in a week isn't as good as going to Bed Bath and Beyond and buying two useful items that you need.

 

 

That's what it looks like now. But they didn't figure their no.3 starter would be out the whole year when they did those signings pre-season. They signed a bunch of guys for the back of the rotation, figuring one or two would work out. None of those guys figured to be a no.3 starter. But that's what they're looking for now--and they don't have one. Did Epstein realize that before the trade deadline? Well, he does now. That should have been his priority, as some of us were saying.

[TedWilliams101]

That's what it looks like now. But they didn't figure their no.3 starter would be out the whole year when they did those signings pre-season. They signed a bunch of guys for the back of the rotation' date=' figuring one or two would work out. None of those guys figured to be a no.3 starter. But that's what they're looking for now--and they don't have one. Did Epstein realize that before the trade deadline? Well, he does now. That should have been his priority, as some of us were saying.[/quote']

 

Yes. The reason myself and others wanted Halladay, Lee, or some other top notch pitcher (washburn, etc) so badly was because our rotation was terrible. The rest of the season has to go PERFECTLY for us to have a chance at winning it all (maybe even just the playoffs). Just remember, instead of having Smotlz (8+ERA), you would have one of the best pitchers in baseball. A farm is great, but you have to USE IT to win. Some times that means a trade.

 

And about the "building for the future" idea. I hate it. I'm a "in the moment" person, partially because the "Future" you are building for might never happen.

[Dipre]

Yes. The reason myself and others wanted Halladay, Lee, or some other top notch pitcher (washburn, etc) so badly was because our rotation was terrible. The rest of the season has to go PERFECTLY for us to have a chance at winning it all (maybe even just the playoffs). Just remember, instead of having Smotlz (8+ERA), you would have one of the best pitchers in baseball. A farm is great, but you have to USE IT to win. Some times that means a trade.

 

And about the "building for the future" idea. I hate it. I'm a "in the moment" person, partially because the "Future" you are building for might never happen.

 

*sigh*

 

Did Theo not make a hard enough push for Halladay in your opinion?

[jacksonianmarch]

*sigh*

 

Did Theo not make a hard enough push for Halladay in your opinion?

 

I dont think Halladay was an achievable goal for this deadline. I do think Lee and Washburn were.

[Dipre]

I dont think Halladay was an achievable goal for this deadline. I do think Lee and Washburn were.

 

Lee slipped between Theo's fingers because he was going so hard after Halladay and Hernandez, apparently.

[Dojji]

I'm not sure Lee wouldn't be lit up in the AL East. He's got a high-risk profile even without the talent he'd cost. He's better off in the NL.

[Dipre]

I'm not sure Lee wouldn't be lit up in the AL East. He's got a high-risk profile even without the talent he'd cost. He's better off in the NL.

 

He's still lightyerars better than anything we're trotting out there besides Beckett and Lester.

[Dojji]

He's still lightyerars better than anything we're trotting out there besides Beckett and Lester.

 

A lefty with a high h/9 has no business anywhere near the Green Monster. Even if the lefty-heavy Yanks might have trouble against him, the Rays would not.

[Dipre]

A lefty with a high h/9 has no business anywhere near the Green Monster.

 

So John Smoltz does?

[Dojji]

No, but at least he was a gamble that didn't cost us any talent. We would have had to pay a fair price for Lee. That combined with the higher than normal risk that the guy gets torched if he comes here, combined with being a GB pitcher with a mediocre infield defense, it all adds up to a guy I wasn't sure I wanted them to go hard after.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not sure Lee wouldn't be lit up in the AL East. He's got a high-risk profile even without the talent he'd cost. He's better off in the NL.

 

Dojji, you do know he won the Cy Young last yr in the AL Central and was putting up solid numbers again prior to the deal. He is better off in the NL. Every pitcher is better off in the NL. That being said, he would have solidified the rotation something fierce behind Lester and Beckett.

[Dojji]

Dojji' date=' you do know he won the Cy Young last yr in the AL Central and was putting up solid numbers again prior to the deal. He is better off in the NL. Every pitcher is better off in the NL. That being said, he would have solidified the rotation something fierce behind Lester and Beckett.[/quote']

 

Sure, if a pitcher with an ERA in the mid 4's stabilizes this rotation he stabilizies it. He sure as heck wouldn't have dominated in Fenway Park. He .734 OPS against right in a park where righies DON'T have the Monster to tee off on.

[jacksonianmarch]

.734OPS isnt bad at all for a pitcher. And his ERA was 3.3 when he was traded. I am sorry Dojji, but Lee would have made this team 3-5 wins better.

[Dojji]

Agree to disagree I guess. I think that he was getting by on the margins in Cleveland and the higher level of competition in the AL East would have eaten him alive.

[a700hitter]

Yes. The reason myself and others wanted Halladay, Lee, or some other top notch pitcher (washburn, etc) so badly was because our rotation was terrible. The rest of the season has to go PERFECTLY for us to have a chance at winning it all (maybe even just the playoffs). Just remember, instead of having Smotlz (8+ERA), you would have one of the best pitchers in baseball. A farm is great, but you have to USE IT to win. Some times that means a trade.

They are in a position where every start by Lester and Beckett are must win games. It is unfair and unrealistic to expect that from them, but that's what is needed. The other three rotation slots are close to useless, despite all of our depth.

[Dojji]

Mostly because Theo won't kick out the incumbents and fall back on that depth, even when it would be difficult for the depth to pitch worse than Smoltz and Penny.

[jacksonianmarch]

that depth is pretty much gone. Bowden is the last bastion of that "depth" and having 2 essentially rooks in the rotation down the stretch is suicide and he knows it

[Dojji]

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/t/junichi-tazawa.shtml

[jacksonianmarch]

Tazawa has been in AAA for what, 5 starts now? He is your depth down the stretch run? Cmon now.

[Dojji]

Tazawa has been in AAA for what' date=' 5 starts now? He is your depth down the stretch run? Cmon now.[/quote']

 

You seem to have a fundamental issue with the working definition of the word "depth." As depth goes, Tazawa is actually excellent. For most teams depth is Russ Ortiz or Sergio Mitre.

 

That's about the same level of AAA experience Buchholz had when he got called up, and more than Masterson had. Just FYI.

 

Tazawa is very close to big league ready.

[redsoxrules]

Sure' date=' if a pitcher with an ERA in the mid 4's stabilizes this rotation he stabilizies it. He sure as heck wouldn't have dominated in Fenway Park. He .734 OPS against right in a park where righies DON'T have the Monster to tee off on.[/quote']

 

mid 4? more like low 3

[Dojji]

I see no reason to believe Lee would have continued to pitch to that ERA in the American League East.

[jacksonianmarch]

why? There is no logic in that statement. It is AL Central to AL East. It is not that big of a jump