Papi

[TedWilliams101]

Drop Ortiz to 8th.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Bay

Youk

Drew

Lowell

Tek

Ortiz

Green

[DaviOtizaBigPapi]

I would probably keep your line up, Ted, with the exception that i would put tek after Ortiz. I am extremely pro to having Green instead of Lugo's bum self.

I think losing Ortiz will have a big impact on our franchise--he's a big figure in all of sports and most of the media-- they make great commercials about him (see ERAs cap commerical) lol

[TheKilo]

I hope you all realize that dropping Ortiz that far in the order makes little to no difference over the course of the season (maybe one win).

 

Couple that with the unnecessary drama that would result (and Ortiz is a bit of a drama queen, no question about that) I just don't see the benefit.

[satch9841]

agree with you kilo, ortiz will see even fewer pitches to hit if he is dropped in the order. zkeep papi in front of youk for now. I too think he has a timing problem and i don't think his swing is the same as in the past. Therefore one wonders if his surgery has somehow affected his swing. Seems like he is either a little too quick on some pitches and pulling them foul, or a little too late and popping up. Ortiz is working hard to solve his dilemma. I think papi has made some progress, but something is holding him back. Sox can't afford to have papi slump this bad for another month. I think he will get it going.

[ms_sox]

I think Ortiz has said in interviews that he thinks he got used to modifying his swing cause of his wrist stuff. Sometimes hard to break bad habits later, even if you're aware of them.

 

Even if his best days may be behind him, I think he may still surprise many by the end of the season. It's tough to watch in the meantime, tho. We'll see.

 

I liked this photo today:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/05042009ortiz600.jpg

[TheKilo]

T-shirt is quite apropos

[BSN07]

If Ortiz doesn't hit a HR at NY's most expensive little league park this series call me worried.

 

 

Do like the shirt tho:D

[Dipre]

He got on base four times last night, and one of those doubles was a laser.

 

He still seems to be fighting some bad habits at the plate, but he'll recover eventually.

[a700hitter]

When he gets going, pitchers are going to pay, and good luck to them with Youkilis batting behind him.

[BoSox21]

When he gets going' date=' pitchers are going to pay, and good luck to them with Youkilis batting behind him.[/quote']

 

I like the optimism. It's refreshing to see that here.

[TheKilo]

He had a really good game last night and I'd love to see it continue.

[Mr Crunchy]

We got the only 3 hitter in the game without a hr, drama my ass how long do we put up with it?

Has he become Dmitri Young or has he become Mo Vaughn?..

He looks desperate at this time inspite of his average spiking up to a blistering .220.

we are essentially powerless from the left side of the plate these days and when our hapless catcher is leading the lefties with 4 hrs(i think 1 came from the right side) we're going to suffer offensively.

Think of how putrid our offensive #s would be if we didnt have the Yankees to beat the piss out of?

[mvp 78]

I really hope that Ortiz is turning the corner. My wife spent the whole weekend defending him against her grandfather and was psyched to see him play well on Monday.

If Ortiz is done though, the only right move would be to bring Lars up. Carter, Van Every, and Bailey are nothing more than 25th man roster guys with little to no upside. There's no reason to be giving them extra at bats over Ortiz.

[BoSox21]

If Ortiz is done though, the only right move would be to bring Lars up.

 

Lars is having a rough start to the season, he definitely isn't ready for the show

[Mr Crunchy]

Ortiz is getting on base again and has hit the ball fairly well over the last 10days but we're looking at 80 games without a HR, thats beyond troubling, thats half a season of no power from a guy who whacked 50 a couple years ago.I thought Carter carried a big stick but couldnt field?

He hasnt been given a shot against the big boy clubs as of yet and since Elsbury is banged up we do need another outfielder for the time being..Baily hasnt done anything at all,why not give the lefty bat a pop?Hes hitting .380 in Rhode Island and in limited time here didnt embarass himself and lets face it,we need left handed pop in a big way.

[Dipre]

Ortiz is getting on base again and has hit the ball fairly well over the last 10days but we're looking at 80 games without a HR, thats beyond troubling, thats half a season of no power from a guy who whacked 50 a couple years ago.I thought Carter carried a big stick but couldnt field?

He hasnt been given a shot against the big boy clubs as of yet and since Elsbury is banged up we do need another outfielder for the time being..Baily hasnt done anything at all,why not give the lefty bat a pop?Hes hitting .380 in Rhode Island and in limited time here didnt embarass himself and lets face it,we need left handed pop in a big way.

 

Dude, i don't mean this as a type of offense but, do you have any knowledge of the mechanics involved in hitting?

 

Swing speed, timing step, anything?

 

If you do, have you taken the time to examine Ortiz's current approach, pitch selection and timing at the plate?

 

If you haven't, then i suggest you STFU with your blind criticism.

 

If you have, and still convey the "Ortiz is done" opinion, then review again.

 

His swing speed is right up there, his real problem has been getting his timing right and finding comfort in his stance, since he obviously hasn't been driving the ball with the lower part of his body, which explains a lot of his lack of power, and that glitch was discovered earlier in the year, maybe a week or so ago, but it's because of jerk fans like he's been suffering in pitch selection, pressing at the plate, trying to send everything to the upper deck, so here's my suggeestion, if you don't have something either constructive or some healthy criticism to bring to the table, then just keep quiet!

[rician blast]

Dude, i don't mean this as a type of offense but, do you have any knowledge of the mechanics involved in hitting?

 

Swing speed, timing step, anything?

 

If you do, have you taken the time to examine Ortiz's current approach, pitch selection and timing at the plate?

 

If you haven't, then i suggest you STFU with your blind criticism.

 

If you have, and still convey the "Ortiz is done" opinion, then review again.

 

His swing speed is right up there, his real problem has been getting his timing right and finding comfort in his stance, since he obviously hasn't been driving the ball with the lower part of his body, which explains a lot of his lack of power, and that glitch was discovered earlier in the year, maybe a week or so ago, but it's because of jerk fans like he's been suffering in pitch selection, pressing at the plate, trying to send everything to the upper deck, so here's my suggeestion, if you don't have something either constructive or some healthy criticism to bring to the table, then just keep quiet!

 

Holy crap, bro....am I missing something? I read that post, and I think it's pretty much on the money. Ortiz has been getting on base at a better clip, but hasn't hit a bomb in a long, long time...is that not valid reason for concern, regardless of the cause of his power outage?

 

I think you're a bit off-base on your critique of the post. As for the "jerk fans" imagine if Ortiz started out this way for the Yankees or in Philly? They'd have his fkn head. A #3 guy on a contending team has to hit with some pop and it would be nice to have some power from the left side. Right now, Ortiz is not providing that, and that is not debatable.

[Mr Crunchy]

Blind criticism.......Blind criticism?

Is this a test of my patience or are you simply a jerk off pink hat wearing cheerleader.

No, not blind criticism, justified criticism.

I dont have the time to break down 1000 hrs of tape frame by frame.

I have enough sense to understand the guy hasnt homered in 80 games.

Which #3 hitter in the game of Baseball has gone 80 games without homering?

Go lite a candle and pray for him.

I will continue to call spades spades as I always do until things change.

This isnt Washington or SanDiego or SanFrancisco sonny.

this is Boston my boy, we understand the game a little bit and we dont close our eyes and say Kumbaya ALL IS WELL when our 3 hitter goes half a f***ing year without homering.

Of course its my fault he lost his power.

its due to my blind crticism that he has all the power of Jerry Remy these days...

 

Have you ever seen a naked lady outside your family?

2003-31hr and .288

2004-41 and .300

2005-47 and .301

2006-54 and .288

2007-35 and .337

2008-23 and .264 average, his lowest in Boston and while injured.

2009-0 and .230

 

Stevie Wonder can see the decline here, why cant you?

[Mr Crunchy]

Theres no criticism allowed in the Pink Hat area of RedSox Nation.

Doing the bump with the guy next to you and singing Journeys, ""Dont Stop Believing"" is what the real fans do Jim.Christ Almighty.E I G H T Y ,80, ochenta.

He's my sons favorite ball player, they share the same name, the man will never ever have to go into his pocket as long as he lives in the city of Boston for anything.

The man terrified 30,00,000 Yankee fans in the Tri State area for 5 years but I insist on calling spades spades as long as I live(no offense to the politically correct).

I never said he was finished,not once did i say he was finished.

I do imply there's trouble and theres concrete evidence of a decline here that makes me worry about the long term with the big man and in the short term he's killing us in the 3 hole.

I have seen a dozen guys similar in size and production to Ortiz in my life.

George Scott, Dickie Allen, Willie Horton,Willie McCovey, Rice, John Mayberry and Mo Vaughn immediately come to mind and they all faded in different ways.

Rice couldnt see anymore,Allen and Scott refused to drop bat sizes,Willie Horton went back to jail with Mayberry and Gates Brown while Willie McCovey took 10 years of seesawing #s and a lot of injuries to finally pack it in and Vaughn and Fielder ate their way out of baseball.

So is Ortiz hurt,can he see anymore, is he personally crushed Manny left,is his wife f***ing Vince Coleman,are his children sick,did his town in the DR get washed away in the last hurricane?

 

I love this guy but I have loved many of these guys over the years and I have learned to watch them come and go without getting emotionally burnt out,that part isnt easy

We torched a neighbors garage when Dick Oconnell f***ed up the Fisk negotiations by submitting a contract proposal a day late,I hung an ex out the 4th floor window by her ankles after she laughed in my face when Buckner f***ed up 1986 and I think my parents were let down I didnt drop her.

I do love this team more than just about everything other than family.

I opened my fathers eulogy the day after they lost the pennant, in a church full of 300 worshippers by saying in front of the priests and my sainted mother

""Matt f***ing Garza""

The majority of the people there simply nodded their approval, the Priest cracked up and the mourners were mourning more than my father that morning and I knew it.

This is Boston not LA or Miami.

I lived here my entire life,I understand the mindset in Boston as much as anyone does and if you think its hard burying a family member try doing it the day after they lose the pennant.

 

Anyway

God help me I do love this team.

Theres could be 1000 reasons why Ortiz isnt hitting HR's.

If your excuse for him is his batting stance/mechanics I think that wouldve been addressed last year or in Florida.

If your excuse for him is injury then I may agree inspite of the story that his wrist is back to normal.

But

If your excuse for him is that the fans are mean then I just have no rebuttal for that ******** at all.

That man is loved respected and adored here and I havent heard anyone boo Ortiz in Boston yet.

 

I got a 230 meeting with brass to discuss my shortcomings, I suspect I will return later this afternoon but if I dont I want y'all to have a blessed day.

 

God Bless the Boston Red Sox and specifically David Ortiz's home run power.

[Dipre]

Holy crap, bro....am I missing something? I read that post, and I think it's pretty much on the money. Ortiz has been getting on base at a better clip, but hasn't hit a bomb in a long, long time...is that not valid reason for concern, regardless of the cause of his power outage?

 

I think you're a bit off-base on your critique of the post. As for the "jerk fans" imagine if Ortiz started out this way for the Yankees or in Philly? They'd have his fkn head. A #3 guy on a contending team has to hit with some pop and it would be nice to have some power from the left side. Right now, Ortiz is not providing that, and that is not debatable.

 

Still, you do admit that the whole "Ortiz is done" argument is rather tired and has no bearing until we see what Ortiz can do throughout the whole season?

 

And besides, even though Tex has what, 4 HRs? he has still been a black hole of suckitude like Ortiz and i don't see any fans s***ing their pants over his slow start.

[rician blast]

Still, you do admit that the whole "Ortiz is done" argument is rather tired and has no bearing until we see what Ortiz can do throughout the whole season?

 

And besides, even though Tex has what, 4 HRs? he has still been a black hole of suckitude like Ortiz and i don't see any fans s***ing their pants over his slow start.

 

I think there's a huge difference between saying "Ortiz is done" vs. Ortiz hasn't hit a HR in 80 games and is killing the Sox offense as their #3 guy and that perhaps some changes are needed.

 

As for the Tex comparison, I thought about that when considering my post, and I'm of the mind that Tex's slow start is more palatable to fans (for now) because he's new to NY, he's only 28, he doesn't show a couple of years declining performance, he's not coming off injury that we know of, he's shown some pop, he does play the field and he doesn't exhibit the body of Mickey Lolich or mid-1970's Elvis Presley.

 

Tex' performance, for now, is easier to accept as an anomoly...while Ortiz's can objectively be viewed as a potential trend.

 

None of wishes anything but the best for Ortiz, and I think we're all united in our hope that he turns it around. But those of us who cheer for the name on the front of the jersey are justifiably concerned with the performance of the Sox #3 hitter.

[BoSox21]

The only thing down about Tex is his BA, his OBP and power numbers aren't that bad

[das11209]

Who thought David Ortiz will become Shawn Casey in terms of Power ( he was Casey always in terms of base running anyway).

[Ray10]

It's only May im not too worried as of yet. He'll get hot soon and when he does watch out.

[CrespoBlows]

Who thought David Ortiz will become Shawn Casey in terms of Power ( he was Casey always in terms of base running anyway).

 

Sean.

[Dipre]

It's only May im not too worried as of yet. He'll get hot soon and when he does watch out.

 

Thank you, Jesus Christ.

[rician blast]

Not to stir the pot after it's stopped simmering, but I gotta throw this out there...when IS it ok to worry about a guys production? Do we have to sit silently by, not expressing concern over what we see as a trend?

 

Christ, this is very similar to when some of us called JD Drew the 'F'-word (hold on, I'm gonna say it...here goes...f-r-a...f-r-a-g....fragile" and were lambasted for it.

 

It is what it is, and I'm not putting the blinders on to what I see because it's "only May." To express concern is not to say "he's done"...while not optimistic, it is a realistic and justifiable concern.

[BoSox21]

You can express concern about a guy's production 3 days into the season if you want, you'll just be ridiculed for it. But I generally don't show concern provided the rest of the offense is picking up the slack, which they are, so as far as I'm concerned, now is probably the best time for Ortiz to get his slump out of the way

[rician blast]

You can express concern about a guy's production 3 days into the season if you want' date=' you'll just be ridiculed for it. But I generally don't show concern provided the rest of the offense is picking up the slack, which they are, so as far as I'm concerned, now is probably the best time for Ortiz to get his slump out of the way[/quote']

 

Who did that? Who expressed concern 3 days in? How is that comment at ALL appropriate in the context of this thread?

 

Look, everyone has different levels of optimism and tolerance and I just don't get how someone saying they're concerned that our #3 hitter hasn't homered in eons is somehow out of line. It's "only" May? yeah will he "only" homered in what, August 2008?

 

I'll state it again...those who have expressed concern are absolutely justified in doing so...to question their motives or baseball knowledge because of it is totally offbase. I appreciate the views of those who think this is just a slump and I respect the analysis that a particular poster prepared regarding swing mechanics and such...I hope the more optimistic folks out there are right.

 

But give us break and give those who view the situation differently the same respect that they are affording you guys.

[Redguitar985]

I think it's fair to question what's going on with Ortiz because I remember last year at about this time, the top story on Sunday Night Baseball's Red Sox vs. Yankees game was David Ortiz hitting .071. He was a dominant offensive power in '03, '04, '05, and '06, but his home runs have gone down since, and his average dropped last year.

 

What would be the wost-case scenario with him? I mean, he ended last year with 23 home runs, which was decent. If he ended this year with similar numbers in home runs, plus batting avg, OBP, etc. do you officially move him out of the 3-hole and bat him 5th, 6th?