Johan Santana

[Gom]

As reported on ESPN, Yanks in preliminary trade talks with the Twins about Santana.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

[TheKilo]

Dumb? He's our fifth starter. It's reasonable to assume DiceK will improve on his 07 showing, Schilling has every incentive to not show up as out of shape as last year and even if he needs time off, it will come before september. That gives us two solid arms to feel good about behind Beckett come october. I don't think we need to bank on Buchholz being there in the end. They could handle him like they did Lester in 06. Strict pitch count, short innings etc. But, personally, I'd rather not have him wasting pitches at AAA when hes proven he can compete up here. I think at some point you have to turn a young arm loose and stop coddling. Thats this year for me with Buchholz.

 

I don't think its unreasonable to assume a 20% increase

 

That's interesting then. Buchholz gets shut down with a tired arm after 148, but we can pencil him in for what, 180 innings?

 

Ridiculous. He's 23. How many innings do you expect out of him next season?

[example1]

I'm sorry, but that is, in a word, dumb.

 

How many innings can people count on from Buchholz next season? He threw 148 innings this season. Let's be generous and assume he can handle a 20% increase in innings...that puts him at 177.6 innings. We want to waste these innings in April when we have other reliable options rather than keep the guy fresh for the stretch run?

 

The saving grace for the Red Sox was that they had a great start this season. Don't dis April!! :harhar:

 

 

I understand the tendency/inclination to move Buchholz along slowly, but that doesn't mean that when it is baseball time and Buchholz is baseball ready that they're going to have him pitch in Pawtucket if he could be on the mound in Boston.

 

Logically it makes much more sense to go to a six-man rotation than to have 6 above average pitchers with one pitching in the minors. If you're really proposing that Buchholz save his innings, how do you propose doing that? An inning at AAA is going to cost the same as an inning in the MLB; or he could just sit on his ass in Florida wondering why a 23 year old pitcher with almost 3 years of utter dominance in the minors, a major-league no-hitter and almost a K per inning in the 'bigs, has to wait, while pitchers like Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Verlander, Scott Kazmir, Cole Hamels, Tim Lincecum, Jake Peavy, Jeff Weaver, Matt Cain, Josh Beckett, Dwight Gooden, Roger Clemens, and Felix Hernandez (who is still only 21, for what it's worth) all were able to start racking up wins and K's for their career.

 

Usually I'm on the conservative side in baseball. I like to be patient and am largely risk-averse. You won't hear me advocating for trading our best prospects (though that would not have been the case a five years ago, when those prospects were not nearly as good as they are now) and I would never, EVER advocate resting the entire season on the shoulders of a 23 year old kid. If it comes down to Buchholz carrying this team then I say we fold it in, and try again next year. But it won't come down to that. At most Buchholz is going to be a 5th starter.

 

27 starts at 6.5 IP per start is 175.5 IP. 27 starts is also 162 divided by 6.

 

In other words, a six-man rotation nets each pitcher roughly 175 IP. Add in the likelihood of injuries or someone else needing to pitch a start or two (Tavarez), and you have the makings of a well-rested rotation heading down the stretch, with one of your better pitchers being able to contribute starts from the beginning of the season on through. You may even rest a guy like Buchholz and/or Schilling in September, if you have a lead or are in strong contention for a WC spot, and guys like Beckett and DiceK and Wake can pick up closer to 200.

 

 

There are plenty of pitchers who are Buchholz's age and who have thrown a considerable amount of innings already in the big leagues. I'm not saying the Sox should just let him run wild, like I suspect others have with their young guns.

 

Bonderman and Verlander were both 23 in the 2006 season where Verlander won ROY and they led the team to the WS. Scott Kazmir is 23. There are things you can do to make sure a pitcher has the best chance of staying healthy. A shoulder strengthening program and pitch counts are huge in that regard.

 

We're talking about a 23 year old in the prime of his athletic career here*. He has proven everything one could possibly ask for him. If anything Lester should be in a spot in AAA, wasting HIS innings down there. Buchholz is the better pitcher at this point.

 

Lester in AAA would be silly too. I think this talk of a six-man rotation that was sort of hushed a few weeks back could be a real possibility. It makes the best use of their players:

 

Schilling: Aging, will like the rest

Dice-K: It's what he's used to

Beckett: being at 190 IP at the end of September would be really nice, and make him more

effective with each of his starts

Wakefield: He could pitch every day if we asked him to (or at least every 3rd...) (the man is a horse). Wake is pretty unconventional himself, so I doubt he would have a problem with it.

Lester: will benefit and be happy to have a job

Buchholz: will benefit and be happy to have a job.

 

The sox regularly think outside the box on important issues like this.

[jacksonianmarch]

As reported on ESPN, Yanks in preliminary trade talks with the Twins about Santana.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

 

I have a feeling that the Twins will have preliminary talks with a few teams. They want to and essentially need to gauge the market and what will be offered.

 

I did like what a Minny columnist stated today, essentially telling twins fans that the twins shouldnt expect to be as spoiled as they had been in previous deals. IE the Pierzynski or the Knoblauch deals where all stars came back in return.

 

The fact that Santana is coming off his worst (yet still spectacular) season, has one yr left and will get the richest pitching contract ever, all points towards the twins getting 50 cents on the dollar. Their best bet is to get into a bidding war between the sox and yankees.

[rician blast]

Their best bet is to get into a bidding war between the sox and yankees.

 

IMO, the Yankees would win this war. Desperation is a strong motive.

[jacksonianmarch]

And to be honest with you, I dont think the sox truly want him if you ask me. Santana is going to command 25 mil a season and in 2 yrs, so will Beckett. You already have an ace in Beckett and a budding one in DiceK. Right now we have a #3 in Wang and a bunch of kids. Now if Pettitte were coming back definitively, I think that takes away some of the desperation, but the fact remains. You guys have an ace and a couple big time prospects, then a steep dropoff. We dont have an ace, we have 3 top prospects in the rotation already with some deep pitching throughout the system. If they wanted to rape us, we have the depth to get boned deep.

 

I just hope that Hank stays out of this and keeps his damn mouth shut. Cashman knows what he is doing as evidenced by the solid work he did in the Sheff trade and the RJ trade. We need to make sure we arent on the other end of getting fleeced when we know this guy needs to be dealt and we know he is going to break records with his contract demands.

[Mr Crunchy]

desperation

every now and then we all get desperate

[BSN07]

As reported on ESPN, Yanks in preliminary trade talks with the Twins about Santana.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3129086

 

Was this not to be expected? Both LA teams, Boston and NYM will have preliminary talks. In fact, i'm not really sure why this is a story to begin with. Must have been a slow newsday...

[Mr Crunchy]

cashman has no idea what hes doing...really nj,the man is completely rudderless or powerless or both.

hes the man who paid roger clemens 28M last may.

he gave kei igawa pavano money

he gave pavano 40m and jarrett wright 20M

steve karsay??

i still cant get over this clemens thing.

anybody who made that jerk off the highest paid player in the game needs to be evaluated more closely'

anybody who put together that rotation while having a 200M payroll isnt qualified to draft a little league team

[ORS]

Cashman knows what he is doing as evidenced by the solid work he did in the Sheff trade...

Homosayswhat? With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty easy to say he got fleeced there.

 

Sheff played 133 games. Damon/Matsui/Giambi DH'd 137 games.

[table]Who|OPS|HR

Supersuck Trio|.729|18

Sheff|.840|25[/table]

 

In return they got a kid who needed TJ surgery and a throw in relief pitcher. Solid. Solid waste, that is.

[VA Sox Fan]

Homosayswhat? With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty easy to say he got fleeced there.

 

Sheff played 133 games. Damon/Matsui/Giambi DH'd 137 games.

[table]Who|OPS|HR

Supersuck Trio|.729|18

Sheff|.840|25[/table]

 

In return they got a kid who needed TJ surgery and a throw in relief pitcher. Solid. Solid waste, that is.

 

 

Good one ORS! LMAO!!!! :lol:

[rician blast]

desperation

every now and then we all get desperate

 

This is the wooba gooba with the green teeth.

 

I can hear the the Yankees FO now..."here is the deal, Minny, we'll give you X, y and z for Santana, and this is our only offer...if you do not accept, we're not going to negotiate further.!"

 

Week later..."well we didn't really mean we wouldn't EVER discuss a deal again, just not that particular day, blah, blah, blah."

 

After the turnabout on ARod, IMO, the Yanks FO has little credibility. Would like to see this used against them.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

per rotoworld

 

"talks appear to be intensifying between the Red Sox and Twins about a deal involving Coco Crisp."

 

I can only imagine its linked to Johan Santana but the Red Sox aren't about to come out and say it like Hank.

[jacksonianmarch]

Homosayswhat? With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it's pretty easy to say he got fleeced there.

 

Sheff played 133 games. Damon/Matsui/Giambi DH'd 137 games.

[table]Who|OPS|HR

Supersuck Trio|.729|18

Sheff|.840|25[/table]

 

In return they got a kid who needed TJ surgery and a throw in relief pitcher. Solid. Solid waste, that is.

 

and they dealt a 39 yr old in the last yr of his contract when at the beginning of the season they had no spot for him. Throw in the fact that he didnt even finish the season and I'd say the deal is looking pretty good. In fact, we got 2 blue chip prospects and a throw in, not the way you put it. And while Humberto did need TJ, the yankees have proven they are not afraid of this surgery (ie drafting Brackman and Melancon when it was obvious they needed TJ).

[jacksonianmarch]

cashman has no idea what hes doing...really nj,the man is completely rudderless or powerless or both.

hes the man who paid roger clemens 28M last may.

he gave kei igawa pavano money

he gave pavano 40m and jarrett wright 20M

steve karsay??

i still cant get over this clemens thing.

anybody who made that jerk off the highest paid player in the game needs to be evaluated more closely'

anybody who put together that rotation while having a 200M payroll isnt qualified to draft a little league team

 

all GMs make some crappy moves. What Cashman did, was change the yankee philosophy. Yes, they will continue to spend money, but he made it so that their minor league system wasnt a total barren wasteland of nothingness. He pumped some of that money into scouting and now we have one of the better MiLB systems in the game, and probably one of the top 10 pitching farms in the game even without our big 3. What he has done is simply fantastic for the longevity of this team. I do admit that his short term moves havent panned out all that fantastically, but we have sailed past those and the pitching future, or even the present with a little luck, seems to be on track.

[BSN07]

This sounds like Minny playing the two teams off each other to get the best deal. I'm pretty sure our FO has planned out what they are willing to give prospect and money wise and probably won't budge too much further on it. The Yanks FO is looking vulnurable after getting gouged by Arod. The Yanks might get desperate and gut there farm system.

[ksushi]

That's interesting then. Buchholz gets shut down with a tired arm after 148, but we can pencil him in for what, 180 innings?

 

Ridiculous. He's 23. How many innings do you expect out of him next season?

 

His IP limit this past year was 155, and though I haven't worked in a FO and I'm by no means an expert ( I'm fairly sure that applies to you too) I'd expect his limit to be a little bit higher. By at least 20 IP. It definitely won't be at 155 again for the sake of progress. At some point in his career he is going to need to make the jump and stick in the bigs for an entire season... If you think 23 is too young to do so, here are some guys who disagree

 

Cole Hamels

Greg Maddux

Pedro Martinez

 

Those are just some examples, I don't feel like digging around to show you how many guys who weigh under 200 lbs have debuted and stuck before the age of 23. Looking at Hamels who is the same height and weighs 15 lbs less than Buchholz he logged 180 innings this year and has accumulated over 300 in his career in the bigs. Maddux debuted at 150 lbs, much smaller than clay and threw 249 innings as a 22 year old. Pedro, also much smaller than buch, threw 194 in his age 24 season. Buchholz is not that small. I don't know where people are coming out with this crap. Not every big league pitcher is a 6'7 monster tipping the scales at over 260 like beefy Brad Penny or 38pumpkinpies.com, Curt.

 

If he threw 95+ regularly I'd be worried about it, but he doesn't. He throws low-90's occasionally reaching north of 95. Thats fine. Guys smaller than him have done it, there is no reason he can't. He can stick in the bigs just fine.

 

To add to my point, though, most guys put weight on in their rookie season more than any other year of their career. Their surrounded by driven professionals and the best trainers available. If we wanted him to put weight on, he'd be in the bigs for sure. Beckett debuted for the fish at 6-5 199 lbs. 9 lbs heavier than Buch. Now he weighs in at over 220 lbs.

 

If we keep coddling him like a baby we're missing out on good years at a firesale price. Even if Clay under achieves for the next six years he'll still command a pretty penny in free agency. The clock is ticking, he is going to be throwing.

 

 

 

Has anyone seen the Coco to twins rumor anywhere but Rotoworld? I can't find it. Even on traderumors. They usually have everything... in a bad way.

[BSN07]

Cashman does seem to have the clubs farm system back in a respectable order. Its the other at the top that like to trade them off for big name/$ guys. I guess it comes towho has the last word.

[example1]

His IP limit this past year was 155, and though I haven't worked in a FO and I'm by no means an expert ( I'm fairly sure that applies to you too) I'd expect his limit to be a little bit higher. By at least 20 IP. It definitely won't be at 155 again for the sake of progress. At some point in his career he is going to need to make the jump and stick in the bigs for an entire season... If you think 23 is too young to do so, here are some guys who disagree

 

Cole Hamels

Greg Maddux

Pedro Martinez

 

Those are just some examples, I don't feel like digging around to show you how many guys who weigh under 200 lbs have debuted and stuck before the age of 23. Looking at Hamels who is the same height and weighs 15 lbs less than Buchholz he logged 180 innings this year and has accumulated over 300 in his career in the bigs. Maddux debuted at 150 lbs, much smaller than clay and threw 249 innings as a 22 year old. Pedro, also much smaller than buch, threw 194 in his age 24 season. Buchholz is not that small. I don't know where people are coming out with this crap. Not every big league pitcher is a 6'7 monster tipping the scales at over 260 like beefy Brad Penny or 38pumpkinpies.com, Curt.

 

If he threw 95+ regularly I'd be worried about it, but he doesn't. He throws low-90's occasionally reaching north of 95. Thats fine. Guys smaller than him have done it, there is no reason he can't. He can stick in the bigs just fine.

 

To add to my point, though, most guys put weight on in their rookie season more than any other year of their career. Their surrounded by driven professionals and the best trainers available. If we wanted him to put weight on, he'd be in the bigs for sure. Beckett debuted for the fish at 6-5 199 lbs. 9 lbs heavier than Buch. Now he weighs in at over 220 lbs.

 

If we keep coddling him like a baby we're missing out on good years at a firesale price. Even if Clay under achieves for the next six years he'll still command a pretty penny in free agency. The clock is ticking, he is going to be throwing.

 

 

 

Has anyone seen the Coco to twins rumor anywhere but Rotoworld? I can't find it. Even on traderumors. They usually have everything... in a bad way.

 

 

23 is the absolute athletic prime for a player. Their baseball prime starts at 27, because baseball is a 'thinking man's' game, and it takes time to get to doing the little things right on a consistent basis. a 23 year old in the NBA or NFL is a multi-year veteran. In the MLB they're treated--by some--as junior high schoolers.

[ORS]

and they dealt a 39 yr old in the last yr of his contract when at the beginning of the season they had no spot for him. Throw in the fact that he didnt even finish the season and I'd say the deal is looking pretty good. In fact' date=' we got 2 blue chip prospects and a throw in, not the way you put it. And while Humberto did need TJ, the yankees have proven they are not afraid of this surgery (ie drafting Brackman and Melancon when it was obvious they needed TJ).[/quote']

It was the trade that probably cost you the division. Your pitching was figured out and performing by May, but the offense was in the dumper, with Damon/Matsui/Giambi being big contributors to that, either from suck or on the shelf. Sheff was raking in May, 1.027 OPS and 10 bombs. Yep, solid. Thanks, Cash. Thanks for the division and the easy first round opponent in the hobbled Angels.

 

I guess the truth hurts, at least it appears to hurt enough to be blinded by what that trade cost you.

[TheKilo]

per rotoworld

 

 

 

I can only imagine its linked to Johan Santana but the Red Sox aren't about to come out and say it like Hank.

 

Maybe....but if the Sox trade him for say, Garza or Neshek, that makes Cabrera an irrelevant piece in the NYY package.

[TheKilo]

His IP limit this past year was 155, and though I haven't worked in a FO and I'm by no means an expert ( I'm fairly sure that applies to you too) I'd expect his limit to be a little bit higher. By at least 20 IP. It definitely won't be at 155 again for the sake of progress. At some point in his career he is going to need to make the jump and stick in the bigs for an entire season... If you think 23 is too young to do so, here are some guys who disagree

 

Cole Hamels

Greg Maddux

Pedro Martinez

 

Those are just some examples, I don't feel like digging around to show you how many guys who weigh under 200 lbs have debuted and stuck before the age of 23. Looking at Hamels who is the same height and weighs 15 lbs less than Buchholz he logged 180 innings this year and has accumulated over 300 in his career in the bigs. Maddux debuted at 150 lbs, much smaller than clay and threw 249 innings as a 22 year old. Pedro, also much smaller than buch, threw 194 in his age 24 season. Buchholz is not that small. I don't know where people are coming out with this crap. Not every big league pitcher is a 6'7 monster tipping the scales at over 260 like beefy Brad Penny or 38pumpkinpies.com, Curt.

 

If he threw 95+ regularly I'd be worried about it, but he doesn't. He throws low-90's occasionally reaching north of 95. Thats fine. Guys smaller than him have done it, there is no reason he can't. He can stick in the bigs just fine.

 

To add to my point, though, most guys put weight on in their rookie season more than any other year of their career. Their surrounded by driven professionals and the best trainers available. If we wanted him to put weight on, he'd be in the bigs for sure. Beckett debuted for the fish at 6-5 199 lbs. 9 lbs heavier than Buch. Now he weighs in at over 220 lbs.

 

If we keep coddling him like a baby we're missing out on good years at a firesale price. Even if Clay under achieves for the next six years he'll still command a pretty penny in free agency. The clock is ticking, he is going to be throwing.

 

 

 

Has anyone seen the Coco to twins rumor anywhere but Rotoworld? I can't find it. Even on traderumors. They usually have everything... in a bad way.

 

For every Pedro, Maddux, and Hamels, there are stories of Mark Prior, Rick Ankiel, and Kerry Wood.

 

How many innings do you expect Buchholz to pitch next season?

 

It's not coddling a pitcher. It's monitoring his innings so that the risk of an arm injury is decreased, especially since we have depth at the starting pitcher position as it is.

[rician blast]

while Humberto did need TJ' date=' the yankees have proven they are not afraid of this surgery (ie drafting Brackman and Melancon when it was obvious they needed TJ).[/quote']

 

Yankees fear potential injuries, overpaying for a FA, trading prospects, etc. much less than any other team, IMO.

 

I wonder why?

 

As for the Yankees negotiations, think Cashman gets pissed when Steinny feels the need to spout about the negotiations? Is he that attention starved, or is it perhaps part of some ploy?

[ksushi]

For every Pedro, Maddux, and Hamels, there are stories of Mark Prior, Rick Ankiel, and Kerry Wood.

 

How many innings do you expect Buchholz to pitch next season?

 

It's not coddling a pitcher. It's monitoring his innings so that the risk of an arm injury is decreased, especially since we have depth at the starting pitcher position as it is.

 

I expect him to be capped at about 180 unless he exhibits some serious strength at that point. If his velocity is sitting above the 90 mph mark after 180, I think you let him go and don't look back. If you worry about him becoming the next Wood or Prior and "monitor" his innings so much, you cost yourself in the long run. He has to make the jump from prospect to major league pitcher and this is gonna be the year. I think Buchholz has the best stuff of anyone I have ever seen coming fresh out of the minors. Him and Felix Hernandez. We have something special and we have it guarenteed for 6 seasons. I'm not in favor of wasting time on him. Put him in the rotation, if he needs to be shut down, unless our pitching depth changes dramtically in the next few months, we have the luxury of being able to call it a season at 180 innings and plug Wakefield or someone in there. Michael Bowden could even be knocking at the door come september and you only need four in the playoffs.

[BudLight]

If Sheff had agreed to move to 1B for the Yanks this would all have been a mute point. His ego was shattered when the Yanks acquired Abreu and Sheffield showed his true colors (urine yellow) when he refused the request to move to 1B for the good of the team. His numbers can't be argued but his leading cause of cancer in the clubhouse can.

[example1]

A great man once said:

 

originally posted by example1

27 starts at 6.5 IP per start is 175.5 IP. 27 starts is also 162 divided by 6.

 

Six-man rotation. Only possible drawback (that I've heard): the potential for hissyfits by cognitively rigid Red Sox pitchers (none of whom have actually complained about it) who are paid millions of dollars to do what they do. They will shut up and get over it, or NOT shut up because they aren't complaining in the first place.

 

Your boss says "look, everyone will get paid the same, but I'm asking you to take a 3 day weekend instead of 2, you don't have to make up the hours, but when I really need you I expect you to be at work"... Okay. Can do. Where do I sign up. Schilling and Beckett and the rest of the crew will be saying the same thing.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, he was too verbose and it was buried in the middle of a long, ranting post that had a number of other good points, which were trees being lost for the forest.

 

Discuss...

[TheKilo]

A great man once said:

 

 

 

Six-man rotation. Only possible drawback (that I've heard): the potential for hissyfits by cognitively rigid Red Sox pitchers (none of whom have actually complained about it) who are paid millions of dollars to do what they do. They will shut up and get over it, or NOT shut up because they aren't complaining in the first place.

 

Your boss says "look, everyone will get paid the same, but I'm asking you to take a 3 day weekend instead of 2, you don't have to make up the hours, but when I really need you I expect you to be at work"... Okay. Can do. Where do I sign up. Schilling and Beckett and the rest of the crew will be saying the same thing.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, he was too verbose and it was buried in the middle of a long, ranting post that had a number of other good points, which were trees being lost for the forest.

 

Discuss...

 

So what you want, is a six man rotation, where we don't give Josh Beckett as many starts as possible next season.

 

Carry on...

[TheKilo]

I expect him to be capped at about 180 unless he exhibits some serious strength at that point. If his velocity is sitting above the 90 mph mark after 180' date=' I think you let him go and don't look back. If you worry about him becoming the next Wood or Prior and "monitor" his innings so much, you cost yourself in the long run. He has to make the jump from prospect to major league pitcher and this is gonna be the year. I think Buchholz has the best stuff of anyone I have ever seen coming fresh out of the minors. Him and Felix Hernandez. We have something special and we have it guarenteed for 6 seasons. I'm not in favor of wasting time on him. [b']Put him in the rotation, if he needs to be shut down, unless our pitching depth changes dramtically in the next few months, we have the luxury of being able to call it a season at 180 innings and plug Wakefield or someone in there. Michael Bowden could even be knocking at the door come september and you only need four in the playoffs.[/b]

 

So ride him, and if he wears down and gets tired after a 20% increase in innings, AFTER he got shut down this season, and potentially lose him for the playoffs?

 

Brilliant.

[TheKilo]

Sox, Yanks in talks with Twins for Santana

 

The Twins have opened trade discussions for Johan Santana by asking the Yankees for a package of at least three young players that would include one of their three top starters -- Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy -- plus center fielder Melky Cabrera.

 

From Boston, they asked about one of two top young pitchers -- Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester -- plus center field prodigy Jacoby Ellsbury, league sources told SI.com.

 

Santana has a full no-trade clause and can control where he goes. Word is, he has interest in New York, but the Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels have to be considered attractive options.

 

While talks are said to be in the preliminary stages, there could be the makings for a deal with the Yankees. They are telling people that Chamberlain is untouchable, but if there's a chance to get Santana, they might consider moving either Hughes or Kennedy. The stock of all three pitchers rose this year as they made their major-league debuts.

 

The Red Sox are believed to have made Ellsbury off-limits, which could complicate their chances. They have Coco Crisp to offer, but the Twins would likely prefer the Yankees' Cabrera to Crisp. Boston is unlikely to surrender Buchholz, who threw a no-hitter as a rookie this year, but might have to consider giving up Lester if they have a chance at Santana.

[ksushi]

Lol, you're assuming he is going to tire severely after 180 IP.

 

In all likelihood he starts the season in AAA. The only problem I have with this is it means someone gets the 5th starter job temporarily because there is about zero chance clay spends the whole year in AAA, thats wasteful, and it means you have to "demote" someone like Wakefield to the 'pen. I'd like him up at the get-go but I think that will probably only happen under extenuating circumstances due to injury or what have you. So, he comes up in may after having thrown well under 250 pitches. Thats pretty much nothing goes on to finish the year at ~180 IP. You'll have to keep an eye on him going into the playoffs anyways, move him to the 'pen maybe unless he proves to be in good shape at the finish of the season.

 

When we shut him down this year it was more out of luxury than anything else. We were pretty much assured a spot in the playoffs, he had six innings left before he was going to be shut down anyways. He missed one start. :'( .

 

I just don't see a scenario in which we don't see at the very least a 20% increase in his IP. How does keeping him penciled in at the same innings total in successive seasons benefit him going forward? Whether he is in the majors or at AAA, he is going to have to log the innings and build his stamina so that at one point he can pitch a full major league season and playoffs. I don't know why some people are under the assumption the kids right arm is going to burst into flames after 160 innings.

 

Kilo, if you have some insight as to how Theo plans to handle it or if you live next to Francona and you've been picking his brain I'd love to know how it will actually play out. But short of that, all we can do is speculate right? If I had to put a number on it I'd say he'll throw 185 innings next season, the bulk of which will be at the major league level, if it were my choice, all of it would be at the major league level. Its not like he is made out of paper mache.