Rookie of the Year Award

[Thumper]

A post by someone else sparked me to this thought.

 

A while back when I was watching a game. Don't know if it was the Red Sox or not. But the announcers were discussing the idea of those who have played in Japanese professional leagues and teams, that then come over to the U.S. should not be eligable for Rookie of the Year, since technically they aren't rookies to pro-baseball. But however, others claim since it's their first season in the MLB, they are capable of the RoY award.

 

And of course the same goes to any American player from the MLB who transfers to the Japanese leagues. And I'm sure the same goes for every other nationality.

 

I know, or atleast I'm pretty sure, as of right now, the Japanese players are capable of winning the award.

 

But what do you think about this? Should first time MLB players who have played in other pro-leagues in another country be eligable for the Rookie of the Year Award?

 

My opinion is yes. Even though (focusing on U.S. and Japan here) Japanese players are familiar with basic baseball and professional leagues, they haven't faced U.S. players and have never been in the MLB, so it's a whole new ballgame to them.

 

A good example is Daisuke Matsuzaka, an excellent pitcher in Japan, he comes here, and he's not so bad, but not all the hype he was made up to be. He had to get use to the American batters, and all of their strategies. So because of that, I think Japanese players, or any nationality from any other pro league, should be allowed to recieve the award.

[Sox Fan In Indy]

I agree with you. They're facing completely new hitters (or new pitchers for position players), not to mention all the cultural changes and stuff off the field they have to face. Certainly not what some kid coming up from the minors has to face.

 

Another interesting debate on the transition from Japan to America: I remember last year, before he hurt his wrist and missed a lot of time, people were saying how it was concievable that Hideki Matsui could break Ripken's consecutive games streak, that is if you counted the consecutive game streak he had going when he left Japan. (I don't remember how close he was. I don't think it was imminent. Probably a few years away, if he had stayed healthy). Anyway, while I think that Japanese players should be eligible for Rookie of the Year Honors, I don't think their stats should carry over from Japan to MLB in terms of record breaking. What do you guys think?

[Thumper]

I agree with you. They're facing completely new hitters (or new pitchers for position players), not to mention all the cultural changes and stuff off the field they have to face. Certainly not what some kid coming up from the minors has to face.

 

Another interesting debate on the transition from Japan to America: I remember last year, before he hurt his wrist and missed a lot of time, people were saying how it was concievable that Hideki Matsui could break Ripken's consecutive games streak, that is if you counted the consecutive game streak he had going when he left Japan. (I don't remember how close he was. I don't think it was imminent. Probably a few years away, if he had stayed healthy). Anyway, while I think that Japanese players should be eligible for Rookie of the Year Honors, I don't think their stats should carry over from Japan to MLB in terms of record breaking. What do you guys think?

 

I'll drink to that. Stats shouldn't carry over.

[Rodney Harrison]

Isn't Japanese baseball considered to be on the same level as Triple-A? If so, then Japanese players should be considered for ROY. And Angel Berroa should give his award back.

[ARod2212]

Isn't Japanese baseball considered to be on the same level as Triple-A? If so' date=' then Japanese players should be considered for ROY. And Angel Berroa should give his award back.[/quote'] I think it's funny how one year, it was ok to be a Japanese rookie when Soriano was up for it against Ichiro, and then it's wrong when Matsui was up for it against Berroa. Be consistent.

 

Personally, I think the award should have an age limit. Although, with all the Latin players coming over and suddenly aging 2 years, it could cause problems.

[A Fast Ball Called Fear]

I think Sammy Sosa should win ROTY.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Amazing when you think that the Sox have 3 potential ROY candidates.

[ORS]

Isn't Japanese baseball considered to be on the same level as Triple-A? If so' date=' then Japanese players should be considered for ROY. And Angel Berroa should give his award back.[/quote']

Why?

 

[table]Player|WARP1|WARP3|OPS+

Berroa|5.9|7.7|96

Matsui|3.2|4.2|111[/table]

 

Matsui had a better offensive year, but he did it as a LF. That performance at that position wasn't as good as Berroa's performance at SS relative to their peers. I doubt the voters looked at this, but they did get it right.

[jacksonianmarch]

This season? Hmmm.

 

-Delmon Young was the preseason favorite, but Pedroia is outplaying him.

-John Danks will be up for the award, even though his W/L record doesnt do him any sort of justice

-Fausto Carmona would be the leader right now, but I dont think he is eligible (74.2IP last season)

-Howie Kendrick is a guy to keep your eye on.

 

Otherwise, I dont think a middle reliever would win, so that moves Okajima down. But Pedroia and DiceK are certainly making a case. If Fausto is not eligible, then there is a high likelihood that the sox will finish 1-2 and 4 in the ROY voting.

[He Hate Me]

Why?

 

[table]Player|WARP1|WARP3|OPS+

Berroa|5.9|7.7|96

Matsui|3.2|4.2|111[/table]

 

Matsui had a better offensive year, but he did it as a LF. That performance at that position wasn't as good as Berroa's performance at SS relative to their peers. I doubt the voters looked at this, but they did get it right.

 

in your opinion, who do you think contributed more to their team? Berroa or Matsui that year?

[ORS]

in your opinion' date=' who do you think contributed more to their team? Berroa or Matsui that year?[/quote']

Berroa. Matsui was a nice complimentary piece on a very good team. Berroa was one of the best players on his team.

[yeszir]

Why?

 

[table]Player|WARP1|WARP3|OPS+

Berroa|5.9|7.7|96

Matsui|3.2|4.2|111[/table]

 

Matsui had a better offensive year, but he did it as a LF. That performance at that position wasn't as good as Berroa's performance at SS relative to their peers. I doubt the voters looked at this, but they did get it right.

 

You're the only person who consistently uses the table code, I like it.

 

As far as general rookie of the year stuff goes, I think giving it to established foreign players cheapens the meaning. I prefer to see some 23 year old get showered in praise with the award.

[He Hate Me]

Berroa. Matsui was a nice complimentary piece on a very good team. Berroa was one of the best players on his team.

 

Actually, the '03 Roayls had a higher BA than the Yanks and scored only 41 less runs than we did. Overall we had a better team because of our pitching, but offensively, the Royals were much closer to us. Matsui was much more integral to our offense than a lot of people realize. I dont know where Berroa was batting in the lneup but I know Matsui picked up his RBIs in the 6th or 7th spot most of the time.

 

in terms of Team Stats

 

BA: Matsui (3rd), Berroa (4th)

HR: Matsui (4th), Berroa (3rd)

RBI: Matsui (2nd - 1 RBI behind Giambi), Berroa (4th)

[ORS]

Berroa accounted for 10.9% of his teams runs created, Matsui for 10.0%. It's a marginal difference, but when you factor in the position played, Berroa was more valuable.

[He Hate Me]

Berroa accounted for 10.9% of his teams runs created' date=' Matsui for 10.0%. It's a marginal difference, but when you factor in the position played, Berroa was more valuable.[/quote']

 

fair enough.

 

lets say Matsui was Ortiz and Berroa was A-Rod. Who would get the MVP in that situation then?

[ORS]

Berroa. I've always maintained ARod deserved his MVP. Although, the case isn't black and white in my eyes. There's some gray area for argument, kind of like there is with Berroa and Matsui.

[YazsTripleCrown]

Amazing when you think that the Sox have 3 potential ROY candidates.

 

The Dodgers had 4 last year who finished in the top 10: Martin, Ethier, Saito, and Broxton.

[schillingouttheks]

Broxton and Ethier played enough last year to be eligible? I did not know that.

 

Are the Dodgers thinking about just inserting Loney at 1B with how Nomar's playing? I'm sure they're looking for an upgrade there.

[redsoxrules]

This season? Hmmm.

 

-Delmon Young was the preseason favorite, but Pedroia is outplaying him.

-John Danks will be up for the award, even though his W/L record doesnt do him any sort of justice

-Fausto Carmona would be the leader right now, but I dont think he is eligible (74.2IP last season)

-Howie Kendrick is a guy to keep your eye on.

 

Otherwise, I dont think a middle reliever would win, so that moves Okajima down. But Pedroia and DiceK are certainly making a case. If Fausto is not eligible, then there is a high likelihood that the sox will finish 1-2 and 4 in the ROY voting.

 

Okajima chances are slim but if he was to finish with an ERA under 1 with 80IP and maintain his current WHIP and OPP BA , he would definately be considered for it

[A Fast Ball Called Fear]

Broxton and Ethier played enough last year to be eligible? I did not know that.

 

Are the Dodgers thinking about just inserting Loney at 1B with how Nomar's playing? I'm sure they're looking for an upgrade there.

 

I'm sure they'd love to but they're not going to replace one of thier large salary players with a rookie. Grady Little should come to his senses and move Nomar to 3rd base and the 5th spot in the batting order. He doesn't plan on doing any hitting unless there's a player in scoring position.

 

 

As far as ROTY I think Matsuzaka definitely should get it if he continues what he's doing. He has 93 K's in 92 IP.

[ORS]

I'm sure they'd love to but they're not going to replace one of thier large salary players with a rookie. Grady Little should come to his senses and move Nomar to 3rd base and the 5th spot in the batting order. He doesn't plan on doing any hitting unless there's a player in scoring position.

 

 

As far as ROTY I think Matsuzaka definitely should get it if he continues what he's doing. He has 93 K's in 92 IP.

If he can hold his recent trend, he'll be deserving of consideration. If the magical mystery can't find the plate inning makes more appearances, he won't get there. I think it's Pedroia's to lose right now. If he put up an .850+ OPS for a season from 2B, that's a lock.

[A Fast Ball Called Fear]

If he can hold his recent trend' date=' he'll be deserving of consideration. If the magical mystery can't find the plate inning makes more appearances, he won't get there. I think it's Pedroia's to lose right now. If he put up an .850+ OPS for a season from 2B, that's a lock.[/quote']

 

Is James Shields still eligible?

[ORS]

No, he pitched 124+ IP last year.

[ARod2212]

I'd take Pedroia over Matsuzaka everyday for this award. For all the hype, his ERA is north of 4 and has had trouble with his command. Pedroia's come in and stablized second base for the Sox, and has been improving all season.

[Rodney Harrison]

I think it's funny how one year, it was ok to be a Japanese rookie when Soriano was up for it against Ichiro, and then it's wrong when Matsui was up for it against Berroa. Be consistent.

 

Personally, I think the award should have an age limit. Although, with all the Latin players coming over and suddenly aging 2 years, it could cause problems.

Never said it wasn't okay for Matsui not to get it. I just don't think Berroa deserved it in 2003 anyway.

 

As for the Ethier question, he was brought up for the first time last year, hence his eligibilty.

[ORS]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether Ethier was brought up for the first time last year. The question posed was, did he extinguish his rookie status, thus making him eligible. When you can still be a rookie next year because you haven't played enough, then you aren't eligible to win the ROY this year. Otherwise, someone could win it twice, theoretically.

 

Berroa didn't deserve it? Who did?

[CrespoBlows]

Baldelli, maybe, but Berroa was actually competent with the glove in 2003, which would negate any defensive argument.

[Rodney Harrison]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether Ethier was brought up for the first time last year. The question posed was, did he extinguish his rookie status, thus making him eligible. When you can still be a rookie next year because you haven't played enough, then you aren't eligible to win the ROY this year. Otherwise, someone could win it twice, theoretically.

 

Berroa didn't deserve it? Who did?

Broxton and Ethier played enough last year to be eligible? I did not know that.

 

Ethier had 396 AB last year. Broxton pitched only 13 2/3 innings in 2005, but he pitched 76 1/3 innings last year to put him in consideration.

 

I liked Matsui better in 2003, but that's the thing with all awards voted on by the BBWAA. It's open to debate, regardless of how clear-cut you think your candidate is.

[ORS]

Baldelli's probably the best argument to be made. But, he played further left on the defenisve spectrum and was edged out 95 to 96 in OPS+. I'm loathe to give the voters any credit, and they probably lucked into this one, but it was the right choice.

[Rodney Harrison]

Baldelli' date=' maybe, but Berroa was actually competent with the glove in 2003, which would negate any defensive argument.[/quote']

An argument could have been made for Teixeira as well.