April 22 vs. New York - Back to Back to Back to Back

[Gom]

Realize one thing. You had your top three going against the worst rotation we have had in ten years. Posada and Matsui didn't play in the series. You outscored us by four runs.

 

Once again, credit to your team for sweeping the series, but the Sox don't look all that scary to this Yankee fan.

[example1]

I'll give the Sox credit for the sweep. Some things I noticed looking back at the series.

 

The Red Sox starting pitchers are not as good as they have been touted. It is much more suspect than I believed.

 

The Yankee bullpen is not as good as touted.

 

Papelbon is as amazing a pitcher as there is in baseball right now.

 

Joe Torre is the biggest idiot in baseball. The Yankees will not win anything as long as this guy is calling the shots.

 

Congrats Sox fans. Round Two, next weekend.

 

Sox pitchers not as good as touted? That seems like a strange conclusion to draw from one game.

[yeszir]

Once again, credit to your team for sweeping the series, but the Sox don't look all that scary to this Yankee fan.

 

You want to stand in the box against Papelbon?

[riverside sluggers]

Sox pitchers not as good as touted? That seems like a strange conclusion to draw from one game.

 

He's drawing it from all 3 games. Dont you see example, our starting pitching sucks

[Gom]

They were facing the tough ass lineup of the Yankees' date=' its hard to ever keep your guys in check. Ease up before you proclaim its all downhill from here for the Sox starting pitching [/quote']

 

With two major components out of the lineup. That's like you guys losing Drew and Varitek. I'm also saying that the Yankee bullpen, when facing good hitters, s*** the bed. That is all.

 

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Congrats Red Sox fans on your sweep.

 

Torre should be taken out and shot. I am now firmly of belief that as long as this guy is managing the Yankees, the Devil Rays could beat the Yankees in a playoff series.

[yeszir]

jacksonianmarch 169

example1 167

Coco's Disciples 51

a700hitter 45

riverside sluggers 43

 

Whoa.

[example1]

So, upon further assessment:

 

DiceK did EXACTLY what I would have wanted. He didn't pitch as well as I would hope, but he hit Jeter and he hit A-Rod and A-Rod was ineffective afterward. A-Rod K's two times. The hottest hitter in history gets hit in the first and K's 2wice.

 

He pitched well enough to win this game, which he did. A great effort by the sox against a Yankees team that really wanted to win.

[god is a redsox FAN]

Sox pitchers not as good as touted? That seems like a strange conclusion to draw from one game.

 

yea, considering that both of Dice-K's loss's have been against other great pitchers, and he didn't get no offensive support. The lost against the blue jays he gave up only 2 runs, and the one against the Mariners he gave up 3.... that's not bad starts..

[example1]

Realize one thing. You had your top three going against the worst rotation we have had in ten years. Posada and Matsui didn't play in the series. You outscored us by four runs.

 

Once again, credit to your team for sweeping the series, but the Sox don't look all that scary to this Yankee fan.

 

Ditto pal. The Yankees haven't looked scarry for a number of years, as their starting pitching, EVEN WITH MUSSINA (snicker!) WANG (snicker snicker) and the other chumps healthy.

 

You're supposedly most dominating pitcher against us, Mariano Rivera, has looked like a BP pitcher and we have treated him as such. Don't get too cocky. Your 195m team just got swept by our 145m team. The Yankees will certainly win some gainst against the Sox this year, but we gained 3 games on y'all tonight. So that's that.

 

And I hope any discussion about Papelbon being "lucky" or any s*** like that is over. This guy is probably the most dominating pitcher in baseball right over the past year +.

[example1]

jacksonianmarch 169

example1 167

Coco's Disciples 51

a700hitter 45

riverside sluggers 43

 

Whoa.

 

Jesus, that's depressing.

 

*169

 

 

[Ray10]

AWESOME to see the Sox sweep the Yankees hopefully that is a sign of things to come against New York this year. Mats didn't pitch as great as we would have liked but at least he still picked up the W in this one to improve to 2-2. The bats were alive tonight that is for sure. Great to see Lowell get those two huge homeruns and the second one he hit was the biggest hit of the game for the Sox. Now they play Toronto for two starting tmrw night. With Wake going up against Ohka. Hope that Wakefield will duplicate what he did last time out against the Jays if he does then the Sox are going to win the game. GO SOX GO.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ditto pal. The Yankees haven't looked scarry for a number of years, as their starting pitching, EVEN WITH MUSSINA (snicker!) WANG (snicker snicker) and the other chumps healthy.

 

You're supposedly most dominating pitcher against us, Mariano Rivera, has looked like a BP pitcher and we have treated him as such. Don't get too cocky. Your 195m team just got swept by our 145m team. The Yankees will certainly win some gainst against the Sox this year, but we gained 3 games on y'all tonight. So that's that.

 

And I hope any discussion about Papelbon being "lucky" or any s*** like that is over. This guy is probably the most dominating pitcher in baseball right over the past year +.

 

Papelbon tonight reminded me of a young Mariano. No fear, no problem. And a knowledge that he wont be hit no matter where he throws it.

 

As for the sox. We can hit anybody. I had been very skeptical after watching the last 3 years' versions of this squad run into buzzsaw's against good pitching. It will be very interesting to see what this team can do against the tampa bay's and baltimore's of the world when the lineup is running on all cylinders. At the same time, it would be nice not having serious ojida at the start of every game because of our starter. I would like some nice consistent starting at some point. It should come. But if it doesnt, we dont have a prayer.

[example1]

Well, if Jacksonian is going to do a recap I will too.

 

Very typical Fenway game. Lots of runs, lots of Monster homeruns.

 

If anyone is wondering what the whole point of giving some protection to Manny was, or why we spent so much money on JD Drew I think you can see it now. Drew was 2/4 with a BB and an RBI and an SB. We missed having that guy last year and he is a tremendous bridge from the top to the bottom of our order.

 

Matsuzaka pitched at about 70% of what he is capable of. It looked to me like he was preferring to throw hittable strikes rather than walk guys, though he made some sellable pitches which were called balls (and which actually WERE balls). However, the offense picked him up and he threw 7 strong innings. He also showed tremendous balls, hitting A-Rod with the very first pitch and later hitting Jeter. I hope people who ridiculed me for comparing this guy's demeanor to Pedro's are regretting the ridicule. He is brash and cocky and has good enough stuff to work out of jams. It is funny that hitters are allowed to have games where they go 0/5 and make an error or two and people write it off; but Dice has one bad outing and people are calling him overrated and saying they are "very concerned". I'm not. He'll K 8-10 in his next start.

 

This guy K'd, in order: Abreu, A-Rod, Cano, Abreu, A-Rod, Damon, Abreu. despite all the complaints about the bottom of the order, you're talking about Damon, Abreu (3), A-Rod (2) and Cano. He was able to get the heart of the order out via the K and I think he let his guard down a bit with one guy in particular: Giambi. Of course, Giambi does that to lots of people. That's why he's a former MVP (although people forget because he's just another Yankee loser).

 

Pedroia's glove was amazing on that liner. That saved the game.

 

4 HR in a row, how often will you see that? Unless you watch a WHOLE lot of baseball probably never.

 

Overall, a great sweep. If I were the Yankees fans I would stop making excuses about these pitchers, since you simply don't have pitchers, despite the extra 50m your team is spending. But I digress.

 

It was fun. Back to the mundane tomorrow: Toronto, I believe?

[TheKilo]

I'm still upset my "thread created" streak was broken.

[schillingouttheks]

I'm still upset my "thread created" streak was broken.

 

Your starting it tomorrow, and everyone knows that this thread was truly yours, anyway

 

I know how you feel though. Seeing Gom's name interrupt yours as threadmaker is quite the eyesore. <_>

 

You're still continuing the threads though, right? Your mojo never dies. The SOTK and Kilo mojo have been working well so far this year. We need some RSR mojo at some point as well

[yeszir]

and he didn't get no offensive support.

 

Alright, who else cringed upon reading this?

[schillingouttheks]

Alright' date=' who else cringed upon reading this?[/quote']

 

Me.

[example1]

Papelbon tonight reminded me of a young Mariano. No fear, no problem. And a knowledge that he wont be hit no matter where he throws it.

 

Yeah, that's what we've all been saying. You can't buy a guy like that, you get lucky and get him and then you don't let go. Without Mariano the yankees are a decidely overpriced and only above average the past ten years. With him they have been an 8 inning team who can focus on its offense above pitching due to that fact. Get a lead, win the game. That's oversimplifying it a bit, but its true.

 

Papelbon is a very, very special pitcher and he proves it with each and every appearance. You could see it from his first few starts for the Sox in 05, THEN he learned his splitter and has been untouchable since.

[TheKilo]

Your starting it tomorrow, and everyone knows that this thread was truly yours, anyway

 

I know how you feel though. Seeing Gom's name interrupt yours as threadmaker is quite the eyesore. <_>

 

You're still continuing the threads though, right? Your mojo never dies. The SOTK and Kilo mojo have been working well so far this year. We need some RSR mojo at some point as well

 

Oh I am definitely starting the thread tomorrow. Had we lost tonight I would not have though.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, that's what we've all been saying. You can't buy a guy like that, you get lucky and get him and then you don't let go. Without Mariano the yankees are a decidely overpriced and only above average the past ten years. With him they have been an 8 inning team who can focus on its offense above pitching due to that fact. Get a lead, win the game. That's oversimplifying it a bit, but its true.

 

Papelbon is a very, very special pitcher and he proves it with each and every appearance. You could see it from his first few starts for the Sox in 05, THEN he learned his splitter and has been untouchable since.

 

there have been players like him in short bursts though. Gagne looked like an upgraded Mariano model for 80 something games until his body exploded. Mo's secret isnt just his amazing stuff and unhittability, it is his durability as well. If Paps stays healthy, you have something there. That is always the if though with almost all closers. Hell, another one is down for what looks like the yr this yr with Ryan. Closers are like revolving doors, even the best. The one thing that guys like Mo and Hoffman have is durability to go along with dominance. If Paps stays healthy, and your rotation stays this good, you will be a force.

[ORS]

Alright' date=' who else cringed upon reading this?[/quote']

Take it easy.....Kentucky math and all.

[example1]

With two major components out of the lineup. That's like you guys losing Drew and Varitek. I'm also saying that the Yankee bullpen, when facing good hitters, s*** the bed. That is all.

 

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Congrats Red Sox fans on your sweep.

 

Torre should be taken out and shot. I am now firmly of belief that as long as this guy is managing the Yankees, the Devil Rays could beat the Yankees in a playoff series.

 

It WOULD be like us losing Drew and Varitek, if we had Damon playing CF, another Drew playing RF, a former MVP playing 3rd, a batting champ/gold glove/HOF SS, and a beastly roid head hitting at DH.

 

Instead, we don't have a Damon. We don't have an A-Rod and we don't have a Jeter. So far this season manny and Abreu have been comparable and Posada is hitting about like Youkilis is.

 

It's the relative equivalent of us missing Crisp and Lugo. Our 5th best hitter and our 8th best hitter.

 

Best hitters, in order, in my opinion:

 

A-Rod

Jeter

Abreu

Damon

Matsui *

Giambi

Cano

Posada*

Minky

 

Ortiz

Manny

Drew

Youkilis

Lugo *

Lowell

Varitek

Crisp/WMP *

Pedroia

 

Just because Matsui and Posada have more power doesn't mean anything. Your whole team has power. I think you need to look at it as a relative loss to the team. Drew is our 3rd best hitter. If you lost your 3rd best hitter it would be like losing Abreu or arguably Jeter. It is so hard to tell, because your top 6 hitters are all as good as our top 1-2 hitters.

 

What is different is the pitching, where the Sox have invested in getting younger through Matsuzaka and Beckett, while the Yankees have not as much.

[Youk Of The Nation]

So yeah, did anyone notice the Red Sox hit four home runs in a row? Killer.

[v2freak]

Was anyone else hoping that Paps would intentionally walk Abreu to face A-Rod? That would have been the most intense s*** ever.

 

I definitely was!

[jacksonianmarch]

you arent comparing apples to apples here example. This is the point. I dont care how good you think our lineup is and how unfair it is to have to face it. The point is, we are incredibly weak in terms of backups. Our backup OFer is in an awful slump and to be honest, should be in AAA anyway at his age. Other than that we have a backup C who hasnt had a hit in the bigs in 4 yrs and a first baseman who can hardly hit his weight.

 

The point is, this team isnt built like yours. You guys sacrificed some offense to be able to add a guy like DiceK. You sacrificed the NL ROY from last yr so you could have Beckett. You have a rotation that, when going right can give you 7IP and on other nights hand the ball directly to Papelbon. We arent built that way. We are built to have a rotation that gives quality, but not spectacular innings, hand the ball off to a power armed pen and slug the s*** out of the ball on our way to a win. You take 2 hitters out of that cog and you are forcing our rotation and bullpen to pick up the slack. Then pull our top 2 and our #5 starter out of there and we are forced to use our pitching depth WAY too early and it shows. We arent built off pitching at this juncture and taking a run or two a game away in terms of production really hurts. Where in your terms, losing a hitter doesnt mean much as you guys are built heavily on pitching. We are two different teams in all aspects right now.

 

And if you wanted to try and compare, consider Posada's production equivalent to Lowell's (.280ish 20HRish). Consider Matsui's production equivalent to Drew's (.290ish, 20HRish 100RBIish). Consider Damon's to losing Lugo and Coco when he is going good, and take away Hinske and WMP as solid backup options. This is our predicament offensively and we still raked.

 

As for rotation wise, imagine throwing Schilling, Tavarez, and Gabbard at us when we have Wang, Clemens, and Pettitte going. This was a mismatch in the last 2 games, you knew it, you exploited it and you earned it. Pat yourself on the back, but dont begrudge us when we find the true silver lining that is there. We have a 4 guys on this team who, if everything is going right, would be released or in the minors and then consider that we had a few guys miss a few games and not be DL'd. You won, congrats. Enjoy the 3 run lead, but you didnt beat us at our best. It isnt your fault, but it is something for us to grab hold of.

[seabeachfred]

Not a good decision to put Okajima in 3 days in a row.

 

Kilo, I said the same thing watching the game at my son-in-law's house. You can run a guy out there only so many times in a row, but I got the chills when I saw Romero warming up. That guy was a waste with the Twins and with the Angels last year and has had absolutely no success whatever against the Yankees. Given that, I can understand why Tito decided to take a chance with H.O. BTW, you know it was Francona's birthday today, right? Good birthday present for the guy, though nothing like the one I received on October 27, 2004.

[seabeachfred]

I've fallen for Pedroia's glove work.

 

Thumper, I nearly collapsed when Phelps hit that ball; what a helluva play by Dustin. He also got two solid hits and was robbed of another. I noticed last year that he seems to play well against the Yankees. Maybe this gets him started.

[seabeachfred]

This is one of those games I'm not sure I'll be able to watch the end of. It is too nervewracking sometimes.

 

EX, I screamed so loud when A-Rod made the last out that I scared by beloved grandaughter out of her wits. I felt both elated and guilty at the same time. What a series; we slugged it out with the Yankees and got all three games. You can bet the Yankees and their fans will be hell bent for revenge next weekend. However, Toronto first.

[seabeachfred]

Was anyone else hoping that Paps would intentionally walk Abreu to face A-Rod? That would have been the most intense s*** ever.

 

yeszir, are you guys crazy????? I was beside myself with anger when he walked Abreu. I wanted no part of A-Rod. One-two-three and out of there, but I guess you are in the majority. Most seem to have liked the idea of Paps facing A-Rod manno manno, but I would just as soon had Abreu fly out to Drew or Crisp.

[example1]

you arent comparing apples to apples here example. This is the point. I dont care how good you think our lineup is and how unfair it is to have to face it. The point is, we are incredibly weak in terms of backups. Our backup OFer is in an awful slump and to be honest, should be in AAA anyway at his age. Other than that we have a backup C who hasnt had a hit in the bigs in 4 yrs and a first baseman who can hardly hit his weight.

 

The point is, this team isnt built like yours. You guys sacrificed some offense to be able to add a guy like DiceK. You sacrificed the NL ROY from last yr so you could have Beckett. You have a rotation that, when going right can give you 7IP and on other nights hand the ball directly to Papelbon. We arent built that way. We are built to have a rotation that gives quality, but not spectacular innings, hand the ball off to a power armed pen and slug the s*** out of the ball on our way to a win. You take 2 hitters out of that cog and you are forcing our rotation and bullpen to pick up the slack. Then pull our top 2 and our #5 starter out of there and we are forced to use our pitching depth WAY too early and it shows. We arent built off pitching at this juncture and taking a run or two a game away in terms of production really hurts. Where in your terms, losing a hitter doesnt mean much as you guys are built heavily on pitching. We are two different teams in all aspects right now.

 

And if you wanted to try and compare, consider Posada's production equivalent to Lowell's (.280ish 20HRish). Consider Matsui's production equivalent to Drew's (.290ish, 20HRish 100RBIish). Consider Damon's to losing Lugo and Coco when he is going good, and take away Hinske and WMP as solid backup options. This is our predicament offensively and we still raked.

 

As for rotation wise, imagine throwing Schilling, Tavarez, and Gabbard at us when we have Wang, Clemens, and Pettitte going. This was a mismatch in the last 2 games, you knew it, you exploited it and you earned it. Pat yourself on the back, but dont begrudge us when we find the true silver lining that is there. We have a 4 guys on this team who, if everything is going right, would be released or in the minors and then consider that we had a few guys miss a few games and not be DL'd. You won, congrats. Enjoy the 3 run lead, but you didnt beat us at our best. It isnt your fault, but it is something for us to grab hold of.

 

 

Well put jacksonian. Truth be told, I brought up the comparison because Gom said to imagine losing Drew and Varitek. In part I did the comparison BECAUSE it shows the different constructions of our teams. Losing Drew and Varitek would be a BIGGER deal to our team than this is to the Yankees, and I think the proof is in the pudding. Yes, your team still raked because of two guys coming through when it mattered: A-Rod and Giambi. But don't do your team too much of a disservice, Cano is a great offensive player, Abreu is a great offensive player, A-Rod has been hitting like Babe Ruth, Jeter is possibly the most consistent hitting SS in the past 25 years, Damon is a great player, etc.,

 

Yes, your pitching was weak this series. But you can't blame the starters for Mariano's meltdown. It also is easier to shut down the Red Sox than it is to shut down the Yankees, even with an injury or two to the Yanks.

 

I guess my point is that this is baseball. Yeah, maybe next week it will look better for the Yanks. Maybe it won't. I think there's reason to think that injuries will continue for this team, especially the starters. Last year when the Sox got swept in 5 games very few people around here took the injury excuse as legitimate. They didn't get why we couldn't win even a game or two. That too is baseball.

 

Losing Posada and Matsui is a big deal. But those two aren't the guys people think about when they think about the Yankees offense. Those players are first A-Rod, second Jeter, and then possibly matsui with Abreu and Giambi. Those three guys are tremendous. All three of them are as good as Drew, at least in terms of production on a consistent basis.

 

I guess my thinking on it is that during the regular season good pitching often DOES NOT beat good hitting. Good patient hitting can manage to succeed against great pitchers. This Yankees team having good ABs against matsuzaka doesn't make Matsuzaka a bad pitcher, nor Beckett, nor Schilling. Those guys who comprise our "vaunted" pitching staff are deservedly vaunted.

 

Against any other team, even the best offenses, they will find plenty of success. Let's compare the Yankees offense with the Twins and Tigers offense from today:

 

Here's the Yankees:

 

Damon

Jeter

Abreu

A-Rod

Giambi

Cano

Dougy

Cabrera

Nieves

 

And the Twins:

 

Casilla

Punto

Mauer

Cuddyer

Morneau

Hunter

Redmond

Rabe

Bartlett

 

And the Tigers:

 

Granderson

Polanco

Infante

Ordonez

Guillen

Thames

Casey

Rabelo

Inge

 

These are other good MLB teams, but their offenses are considerably weaker, even than the yankees offense today. Other than Morneau and possibly Mauer I don't see anyone who would even be discussed as being part of the yankees 1-6.

 

My overall point is that the yankees, even when injured, have an offense that is better than anyone elses. What they lack is pitching, which has nothing to do with offensive injuries. Therefore, it should have little bearing on whether or not Matsuzaka will be a "good pitcher" overall, or whether the SP should be seen as Vaunted. This core of SP was able to work out victories against an offense that, other than perhaps the Mets, is the best in all of baseball.

 

I'm not going to downplay that. Yes, the Yankees offense has been better in the past, and even then, with healthy pitching, the sox took them to 7 games in 03 and 7 games in 04. The Sox can win and compete with this team either way. each game is going to have its unique flavor and you'll win some you'll lose some.

 

As you can probably tell, I would have said the exact same thing if the Sox had lost. It wouldn't be the end of the world and it isn't for the Yankees. I just don't want to hear excuses about not having enough offense. You don't hear the Twins saying that or the Tigers saying that, even when they're throwing their #4 or #5 starters. It is up to THEM to work out victories in those matches. Furthermore, it was the yankees bullpen that was supposed to be so good and the saving grace during this period of injuries.

 

I expect that the Yankees will go back to their murderous ways tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after. I'm just sick of hearing excuses abou tthe Yankees lacking certain huge parts of their lineup when they have spent so much damn money on their team.

 

By saying that the Yankees have spent their money to make an offensive juggernaught, are you condemning their approach? It sounds like you are praising having a balanced team with pitching and hitting. I would agree with that assessment.

 

Offense will get you places, but we have seen the past few years that adding another big hitter doesn't suddenly make you unstoppable. MLB hitters will make poor pitchers pay eventually. What should be concerning is Mariano's downfall thus far.

 

Also, he's on my fantasy team as part of my "win-win" strategy. Same with Jeter. If they do well my fantasy team does well, if they don't then my real team does well. :thumbsup:

 

I'm rambling. Perhaps we could send my posts to guiness to see if I've broken some record.