Wily Mo Pena

[castigs850]

I guess I stand corrected with stats, I do however feel I need to see it to believe it and I am willing to give him playing time to show it to me. but could you explain to me why he is so much better in center than right? i know you see the ball better off the bat from center than in right from experience but he just looks so clumsy in right, what could possibly make him so much better in center?

[CrespoBlows]

I guess I stand corrected with stats' date=' I do however feel I need to see it to believe it and I am willing to give him playing time to show it to me. but could you explain to me why he is so much better in center than right? [b']i know you see the ball better off the bat from center than in right from experience but he just looks so clumsy in right, what could possibly make him so much better in center?[/b]

 

You got it.

 

Fenway's RF is also difficult to play in. Putting him in CF, where he covers less ground, and can read the ball better, makes him a better fielder.

[castigs850]

there has to be some other reason than that though. he just looks so clumsy out there that a faster jump on the ball shouldnt have so much effect. plus dont you think playing in between coco and a wall would be less ground to have to cover than playing in between manny and drew?

[v2freak]

I like the idea of sending him to Triple A, but I doubt it'd happen

[jacksonianmarch]

I like the idea of sending him to Triple A' date=' but I doubt it'd happen[/quote']

 

it cant. He'd have to be waived and he will be claimed.

[seabeachfred]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

 

Well I like the idea he hit a monstrous shot and I have to stand down on my criticism of him......certainly for tonight. He and Crisp both had two hits tonight and they certainly did more than the rest of the crew. Thanks for going easy on me because unlike two others who I will answer in kind, I could have been attacked by you with good cause. Let's hope this leads to something good. I was wrong tonight and I hope I am wrong in the future. It would be great if those two started coming through for us. Now let's win tomorrow.

[seabeachfred]

Damn it. You beat me to it.

 

Schill, I said I had to stand down. Tonight I was way off the mark and am happy those two did a decent job with the bat. If the rest of the team could support Dice K the way those two did we could have won tonight.

[seabeachfred]

Take off pants.

Take off underpants.

Reach between butt-cheeks.

Remove head from ass.

 

We were talking about Pena. If Crisp was doing his job, Pena wouldn't be playing (or hitting 450+ ft moonshots).

 

You know you could have done what Kilo and Schill did and let me up easy but if you want to be an ******* about it fine. If they screw up again, remember if you're going to give me a ration of s*** I'm going to give you two. Just keep in mind if we go by their performances up to now your head has been up your ass a lot more than mine has been up mine. You showed no f***ing class with your post.

[seabeachfred]

Two at-bats?

 

Seriously, two freaking at-bats?

 

Did you really use two-freaking at-bats?

 

No, you didn't. No one is that st......

 

WHAT

 

THE

 

f***

 

???

 

TWO FREAKING AT-BATS????

 

I'd show you that Eric Byrnes is a terrible hitter against RHP, but what's the point.

 

f*** you.

 

Seriously.

 

 

 

How is Eric Byrnes' grit going to help the Red Sox going to score runs? David Eckstein is gritty, but he is an average SS. John Mabry eats dirt, but he is a terrible ball player. How is Byrnes' CLUTCH TUFF N GRIT going to help the Red Sox score runs?

 

 

 

He's average at best, at these things.

 

 

 

Hit 500 foot laser beams, like the one five minutes ago.

 

 

 

Do you have any idea how absurd it is to use sample sizes, that small?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml

 

This guy is batting .200

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml

 

This guy is hitting .250

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

 

This guy is under .180

 

f*** you, and your small sample sizes.

 

The last time you told me to go f*** myself I let it pass, not this time you *******. f*** you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you ********. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.

[schillingouttheks]

Sorry, it's hilarious when people have exchanges such as these.

[CrespoBlows]

The last time you told me to go f*** myself I let it pass' date=' not this time you *******. f*** you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you ********. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.[/quote']

 

I was expecting far better than this.

 

 

This will do for now.

[CrespoBlows]

The last time you told me to go f*** myself I let it pass' date=' not this time you *******. f*** you double and the horse you rode in on. If you want to get personal with me from here on in I will respond in kind you prick. Yes, Pena hit a home run tonight and Crisp got two hits. If that is going to be a benchmark f or you to get personal with me you had better ready for the same if those two screw up again you ********. Better still, don't answer any more of my posts until you clean up your act.[/quote']

 

Care to respond to the points made about small sample sizes? Being gritty? You being a total idiot? Eric Byrnes?

 

Somehow, I doubt you have the ability.

[seabeachfred]

Care to respond to the points made about small sample sizes? Being gritty? You being a total idiot? Eric Byrnes?

 

Somehow, I doubt you have the ability.

 

You being an expert on judging my ability has to be most assinine thing I've heard this month. I've read enough of your posts to see you as a chronic imbecile, your head making a good hotel since there's always vacancy upstairs.

 

Since you are a aficianado of messrs Crisp and Pena which I am not, I am going to be ready willing and able to remind you in language you gave me today when those two guys f*** up again as they will most certainly will. Tit for that from here on in.

[seabeachfred]

Sorry' date=' it's hilarious when people have exchanges such as these.[/quote']

 

Schill, I love to talk baseball in general and Red Sox baseball in particular, but I'm through turning the other cheek. CrespoBlowhard or anyone else getting personal with me is going to get it back in kind. I'm older than they are and more experienced in getting down and dirty if that's what they want.

 

Of course, I am not in the best of moods tonight as our team looked like s*** out there and sabotaged a great pitching perfomance by Dice K. Maybe with a win tomorrow I will go back to being mr. nice guy again.

[Ray10]

Honestly Pena has proven that his bat is a big assest to the Sox lineup but it's his glove that worries me I feel that his defense is sub par at best. I think he needs alot of work in the field before he becomes an everyday player. And the homerun he hit tonight was a monster shot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Random conjecture here, but I think WMP gets a shot again in this series and if he can at least hit adequately and he may end up splitting time in CF with Cocout.

[Mr Crunchy]

crisp and pena hit the ball last nite

that prick owns us and our starter had a mental breakdown that cost us the game

 

nice ole effort by lugo there on overbays""basehit""

fukin giabrone

 

good thing that i see out of this

matsusaka pitched his way out of the 4th(thank you royce clayton) and put down his last 8 hitters?? as he put down the 1st 8

2 runs against this team is a good outing

[schillingouttheks]

good thing that i see out of this

matsusaka pitched his way out of the 4th(thank you royce clayton) and put down his last 8 hitters?? as he put down the 1st 8

2 runs against this team is a good outing

 

Right you are Crunchy. Against certain starters (Chacin being one of them), I have just come to expect defeat. A win is a bonus. I just like to look at the positives in games like this...

 

Pena hit a dinger (it was f***ing beastly too)

Crisp got a couple hits after he felt Pena breathing down his neck

Matsuzaka had 10 Ks; gave us a great chance to win by giving up only 2 runs while pitching 6 strong

 

Like you said, Matsuzaka's outing against this Toronto lineup is a great outing. What's scary is that this is probably considered an off night for him. Imagine how dirty he can be when he's on... he should be allowed to have one shaky inning and assume that his team's going to pick him up. You'd figure that the Sox could have scored at least one more run to force the thing into extras...

[ORS]

You know you could have done what Kilo and Schill did and let me up easy but if you want to be an ******* about it fine. If they screw up again' date=' remember if you're going to give me a ration of s*** I'm going to give you two. Just keep in mind if we go by their performances up to now your head has been up your ass a lot more than mine has been up mine. You showed no f***ing class with your post.[/quote']

Fred, my response was not performance driven. It was due to the fact that you can't stay on topic. You said they were shoving WMP down our collective throat with playing time in order to "prove they were right". I pointed out the ridiculousness of that and pointed out how they were just trying to win games and Crisp wasn't performing. You counter with how Crisp was "shoved down our throats". It's maddening to discuss things with people who won't stay on topic, so I won't bother with you any more.

 

Class? Fred, I'll start showing your posts some respect once they become worthy of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

he will always have one shaky inning. It is very rare that a pitcher comes through a game without having one inning where they were put on the ropes a bit.

[CrespoBlows]

You being an expert on judging my ability has to be most assinine thing I've heard this month. I've read enough of your posts to see you as a chronic imbecile' date=' your head making a good hotel since there's always vacancy upstairs.[/quote']

 

You happen to believe your judgement is better than ORS, which is probably the most asinine thing I've heard in the last 24 hours. Oh, you still used

 

TWO f***ING AT-BATS

 

to prove a point.

[Mr Crunchy]

ive seen pitchers blow their careers over smaller meltdowns

i was watching the game with my dad and all i kept thinking was irabu in the 4th inning

 

i dont know why we cant beat gus chacin

agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out

faaaaaaaaak

[TheKilo]

Schill, I love to talk baseball in general and Red Sox baseball in particular, but I'm through turning the other cheek. CrespoBlowhard or anyone else getting personal with me is going to get it back in kind. I'm older than they are and more experienced in getting down and dirty if that's what they want.

 

Of course, I am not in the best of moods tonight as our team looked like s*** out there and sabotaged a great pitching perfomance by Dice K. Maybe with a win tomorrow I will go back to being mr. nice guy again.

 

Thing is, you don't talk baseball. You never use anything baseball related to back up your arguments.

 

You make these claims, and then when people call you out on them you get defensive. ORS and Crespo use statistics to back up their arguments. What do you use?

[seabeachfred]

wanted to keep this out of the gameday thread

 

 

 

It's obvious he has power I dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him? and also how long do you give him to reach his stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if his numbers and overall play increase dramatically in a reasonable amount of time. But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp. In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact, that coupled with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark in regards to how good he will actually be, makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

 

Edit; better?

 

and thanks rdsxmbnt

 

Castigs, we would all do handstands if Wily Mo could show some real progress with hitting the breaking ball and fielding his position, but this is his ninth pro season and he still has trouble tracking a fly ball? What does that tell you? Now in CF he might be adequate but you and I know that when he plays a corner OF spot he has trouble galore. What we will have to do is mix and match Crisp and Pena and see which one can give us the most production without sacrificing any defense or OBP. As of now there will be no trade for a CF so we are stuck with those two. Hopefully one of them gets hot for us.

[seabeachfred]

Honestly Pena has proven that his bat is a big assest to the Sox lineup but it's his glove that worries me I feel that his defense is sub par at best. I think he needs alot of work in the field before he becomes an everyday player. And the homerun he hit tonight was a monster shot.

 

Ray, no one doubts Wily Mo's power when he gets a hold on a ball. He can hit them as far as anyone. The problem is those strikeouts, men left on base, and his disastrous fielding reputation that we saw last season whenever he played a corner outfield position. That is why he is not a regular with us and why he lost that job with the Reds. This is his ninth year of pro ball and he still cannot track a fly ball and hit a breaking pitch. There has to be a reason that both the Yankees and the Reds traded him away. Yes, we were intrigued with his power as they were and we traded for him to take Nixon's place when Nixon left the team. Notice that didn't happen? The reasons are obvious. Now if we can continue to get hits and drive in some runs, fine. We could use all the offensive help we can get, but I am still of the mind that when all is said and done he has far more liabilities for us in the long term than assets.

[VA Sox Fan]

agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out

faaaaaaaaak

 

I was thinking the exact same thing last night. We're gonna have to deal w/ stuff like that unfortunately, to have a better bat.

[seabeachfred]

Thing is, you don't talk baseball. You never use anything baseball related to back up your arguments.

 

You make these claims, and then when people call you out on them you get defensive. ORS and Crespo use statistics to back up their arguments. What do you use?

 

Take a look at Crisp's statistics this year. What more argument to I need than he hasn't come close to doing the job he was traded for? What was he hitting going into last night's game? 111 or so????? We let a great player like Johnny Damon walk to get a guy like this? That is not improvement to me. We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves. I'm also saying that if these two don't get their s*** together the Red Sox are going to feel it sooner or later.

 

Besides, it was not them calling me out that got me pissed off. It was the nasty and classless way they did it.

[seabeachfred]

ive seen pitchers blow their careers over smaller meltdowns

i was watching the game with my dad and all i kept thinking was irabu in the 4th inning

 

i dont know why we cant beat gus chacin

agon makes that play that lugo ole'd into a run scoring single and we shut them out

faaaaaaaaak

 

I wonder if it is a mental thing when we face Chacin? He is a decent pitcher but nothing like a world beater and yet we fail time and again with him. I think he is now 6-0 with us lifetime. On the other hand, John Lackey of the Angels is one of the best pitchers in the American League with dynamite stuff and he has never beaten us. Go figure.

[schillingouttheks]

We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves.

 

I actually think the Reds were very high on Pena. But, when they were offered a Bronson Arroyo type pitcher (10 wins per year with around a 4.50 ERA in the AL East as a 5 starter translates to success in the NL Central), they were willing to part with him. It wasn't so much them giving up on him as it was their need for pitching and the ability to part with someone like Pena (they had Dunn/Griffey/Kearns patrolling the OF).

[TheKilo]

Take a look at Crisp's statistics this year. What more argument to I need than he hasn't come close to doing the job he was traded for? What was he hitting going into last night's game? 111 or so????? We let a great player like Johnny Damon walk to get a guy like this? That is not improvement to me. We trade a decent No. 4 or 5 starter who eats up innings for a guy two teams got rid of because he couldn't field his position and struck out by the gross. Those are facts and we made our team weaker for those moves. I'm also saying that if these two don't get their s*** together the Red Sox are going to feel it sooner or later.

 

Besides, it was not them calling me out that got me pissed off. It was the nasty and classless way they did it.

 

So let's trade away a guy like Crisp who had a fantastic year in 2004 for a guy like Eric Byrnes, based off of two ABs for Byrnes against Brad Penny.

 

Lovely.

 

You certainly love the small sample size. Tell me, does it hurt your hamstring to jump on and off the bandwagons as much as you do?