Wily Mo Pena

[BSN07]

Hinske is just really not that great in OF, but if Coco can´t put it together in the next few days then anything might be worth a shot, they need to deal with it now while the rest of the O is hot, and not wait until everyone gets cold and then try to tweak things. The bottom 3 in the lineup are not getting the job done, Pedroia gets on base decently, Tek is hitting like s*** but got a hold of a couple recently and Coco just sucks...

[TheKilo]

Hinske is just really not that great in OF' date=' but if Coco can?t put it together in the next few days then anything might be worth a shot, they need to deal with it now while the rest of the O is hot, and not wait until everyone gets cold and then try to tweak things. The bottom 3 in the lineup are not getting the job done, Pedroia gets on base decently, Tek is hitting like s*** but got a hold of a couple recently and Coco just sucks...[/quote']

 

I really think he's gotta try to get Hinske in the lineup, but not tonight.

 

Isn't Chacin a lefty? If that's the case go with WMP in center and Drew in right.

[ORS]

I really think he's gotta try to get Hinske in the lineup, but not tonight.

 

Isn't Chacin a lefty? If that's the case go with WMP in center and Drew in right.

Agreed. Hinske's LHP/RHP split is pretty large, but he should get some more playing time against RHP.

[seabeachfred]

o yah' date=' wut did he do other tiem?? pop up....wilymo popup wilymo popup wilymo popup PURPLE MONKEY DISHWASHER!!![/quote']

 

ORS, you and Crespo have got to go to Fenway Park and see Pena for yourselves. As bad he sounds on the radio and looks on TV---in person he looks absolutely pathetic. I mean you throw this guy a curve and he looks like a bullfighter trying to ward off the bull. I mean he looks like s*** warmed over. Crisp at least can play a decent defense but it is my opinion since Ellsbury will not be ready this year we should go out and try and get someone to play out there adequately this year and I have the perfect guy in mind. Package Crisp or Pena, throw in a decent but not one of our three or four top prospects (Ellsbury, Bucholz, Place, Anderson) and try and get Eric Brynes from the D'Backs. This guy can hit, run, play defense and plays with a reckless abandon. I saw him on TV last night out here against the Dodgers and he played like his life was on the line, dirty uny and all. Unless we go out and trade for someone CF is going to be black hole for us this year. In my opinion Crisp is just about done in Boston. The next two series will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[seabeachfred]

hinske has batted 8xs

5 hits 2bbs

he can play 7 different positions and has decent plate discipline

 

why are we still debating this?

pena's future on this team was decided when they went out and signed drew to a 4yr deal

theres no way he gets 300abs on this team without someone injured

 

Come on Crunch, you're no fool. You know damn well why we are still debating about Wily Mo Pena. Simple really. One, the front office is determined to prove that they made the right deal when they traded for this white elephant, and, secondly, their determination to ram him down our throats come hell or high water. Right now Pena has almost zero trade value and the longer we seem him flailing away at curves and being unsure of himself in the outfield his value will keep dropping. He has to go somewhere to get his act together if that is possible. He can't do it here unless the powers-that-be want to see the Red Sox as an also ran. He as well as Crisp cannot do it for us and the sooner they are let go the better for them and especially for us.

[ORS]

Why would seeing him in person give any better idea about his flaws? I have seen him in person, at the Trop down here in Florida, and I can say without a shadow of doubt that the TV coverage is more revealing. We all know what his warts are, so pissing and moaning about them won't make them any better. One thing will, playing time. Should he get it here? Tough to say. I think they ought to give him a look and some regular ABs as s***** as Coco has looked at the plate. If he can't show some more of what we saw last year and continues to struggle, then I agree, Crisp's defense is more important. Bottom line, one of these guys needs to start showing something, because we can't even get value in return if neither of them do.

[ORS]

Come on Crunch' date=' you're no fool. You know damn well why we are still debating about Wily Mo Pena. Simple really. One, the front office is determined to prove that they made the right deal when they traded for this white elephant, and, secondly, their determination to ram him down our throats come hell or high water. Right now Pena has almost zero trade value and the longer we seem him flailing away at curves and being unsure of himself in the outfield his value will keep dropping. He has to go somewhere to get his act together if that is possible. He can't do it here unless the powers-that-be want to see the Red Sox as an also ran. He as well as Crisp cannot do it for us and the sooner they are let go the better for them and especially for us.[/quote']

This is pure ridiculousness. They are playing him only to show us they were right? That's absurd. If Crisp were performing, he wouldn't be playing. It's as simple as that.

[TheKilo]

ORS' date=' you and Crespo have got to go to Fenway Park and see Pena for yourselves. As bad he sounds on the radio and looks on TV---in person he looks absolutely pathetic. I mean you throw this guy a curve and he looks like a bullfighter trying to ward off the bull. I mean he looks like s*** warmed over. Crisp at least can play a decent defense but it is my opinion since Ellsbury will not be ready this year we should go out and try and get someone to play out there adequately this year and I have the perfect guy in mind. [b']Package Crisp or Pena, throw in a decent but not one of our three or four top prospects (Ellsbury, Bucholz, Place, Anderson) and try and get Eric Brynes from the D'Backs.[/b] This guy can hit, run, play defense and plays with a reckless abandon. I saw him on TV last night out here against the Dodgers and he played like his life was on the line, dirty uny and all. Unless we go out and trade for someone CF is going to be black hole for us this year. In my opinion Crisp is just about done in Boston. The next two series will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

http://www.cabel.name/images-post/2006/01/roflcopter.gif

 

http://www.absolutedestiny.org/pics/albums/userpics/ljicons/lollerskates.gif

[TGov]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

http://www.cabel.name/images-post/2006/01/roflcopter.gif

 

http://www.absolutedestiny.org/pics/albums/userpics/ljicons/lollerskates.gif

 

HAHAHA what the hell is that...

[TheKilo]

HAHAHA what the hell is that...

 

roflcopter and lollerskates.

 

Anyone who advocates a trade for Eric Byrnes instantly has zero credibility anymore.

[seabeachfred]

roflcopter and lollerskates.

 

Anyone who advocates a trade for Eric Byrnes instantly has zero credibility anymore.

 

And anyone who would take Crisp or Pena over Byrnes never had any credibility in the first place. That you or anyone else can sit there and say that either one of those bums is going to get the job done for us this season means that you still haven't put the crack pipe down. Crisp is mentally spent and Pena couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[CrespoBlows]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

 

OPS+ (2006)

 

Byrnes - 95

Pena - 112

 

EQA (2006)

 

Byrnes - .268

Pena - . 299

 

OPS vs RHP

 

Byrnes - .701

Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

[TheKilo]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

 

OPS+ (2006)

 

Byrnes - 95

Pena - 112

 

EQA (2006)

 

Byrnes - .268

Pena - . 299

 

OPS vs RHP

 

Byrnes - .701

Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

 

Thank you.

 

And in addition to WMP's stats, wasn't his OPS against lefties much, much lower last year than it had been in year's past?

[TheKilo]

And anyone who would take Crisp or Pena over Byrnes never had any credibility in the first place. That you or anyone else can sit there and say that either one of those bums is going to get the job done for us this season means that you still haven't put the crack pipe down. Crisp is mentally spent and Pena couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

 

And Eric Byrnes sucks.

 

I'd rather give Pena a shot to grow or Crisp a shot to get out of his funk above trading for Byrnes.

[seabeachfred]

Byrnes is a platoon player, nothing more. I don't know why you would surrender Pena, or Crisp PLUS the prospect.

 

OPS+ (2006)

 

Byrnes - 95

Pena - 112

 

EQA (2006)

 

Byrnes - .268

Pena - . 299

 

OPS vs RHP

 

Byrnes - .701

Pena - .946 (probably a fluke, career is .813)

 

Byrnes collected two doubles last night facing Brad Penny. Last time I checked Penny was a righthander. Last time I checked Byrnes was hitting 288 with five doubles. Last time you checked what was Pena hitting? What was Crisp?

 

Now you will win this argument only because Theo is not trading for Eric and we are going to go with your two boys until they either start contributing or they have anchored us down in the deep. I have always been an Eric Brynes fan as you could see and that was because I loved his gritty hard nosed play. We could always used that type of player on the Red Sox especially if they can hit and field and run. Brynes can do all those things. What the hell can Pena do but strike out. I have seen this guy at bat ten times this season down in Florida and in Boston. One single and seven strikeouts. Some hitting, huh?

 

As for Crisp look up his stats so far. He is not even making solid contact. Maybe this series against Toronto? Hopefully so. I am not holding my breath for it, though.

[seabeachfred]

And Eric Byrnes sucks.

 

I'd rather give Pena a shot to grow or Crisp a shot to get out of his funk above trading for Byrnes.

 

A shot to grow????? This is Pena's ninth season of pro ball my friend. When the hell is he going to grow? Why the hell hasn't he grown yet? Why the hell did the Yankees and the Reds both trade him away? Why can't he still not hit a curve? The only thing Wily Mo has shown that he has a tremendous ability to regress after showing a little promise.

 

As for Crisp, he will get a solid shot to get out of his funk and I certainly hope he does, but his persona on the field tells me that he would love to get out of Boston as soon as he can. There were numerous fans saying the same thing last week in Fenway. His discomfort in a Red Sox uniform was evident to most of us the way he went back to the dugout head down and in another world.

[seabeachfred]

Why would seeing him in person give any better idea about his flaws? I have seen him in person' date=' at the Trop down here in Florida, and I can say without a shadow of doubt that the TV coverage is more revealing. We all know what his warts are, so pissing and moaning about them won't make them any better. One thing will, playing time. Should he get it here? Tough to say. I think they ought to give him a look and some regular ABs as s***** as Coco has looked at the plate. If he can't show some more of what we saw last year and continues to struggle, then I agree, Crisp's defense is more important. Bottom line, one of these guys needs to start showing something, because we can't even get value in return if neither of them do.[/quote']

 

And the way they're both going we won't get much for them now and less later. Yes, I know Theo is going to go with these two until the cows come home but nothing I've seen so far as made me confident either one of them is going to do much for us. Coco does play the field well and I would stick with him a little longer, but we could certainly do better than either one of them. Quite a tremendous comedown from Johnny Damon I would say.

[seabeachfred]

This is pure ridiculousness. They are playing him only to show us they were right? That's absurd. If Crisp were performing' date=' he wouldn't be playing. It's as simple as that.[/quote']

 

"If Crisp were (sic) performing, he wouldn't be playing???? Try running that by me again. Notice last year they had this guy's face on billboards all over town hawking "Red Sox Nation Cards, Hood Dairy products and numerous other things. They wanted to make him the face of the Red Sox as quickly as possible to get our minds off of Johnny Damon. Well, guess what?? It failed as miserably as he did and now you see his face nowhere but Theo seems determined to see him succeed and that is why you hear nothing about bringing Murphy up, or considering a trade for someone who can put the ball in play. We have a gathering black hole in CF ORS whether you want to accept it or not. For the team's sake I hope Crisp snaps out of it. I don't think he will. I think he and Pena could both use a new address and to a man all my friends who saw those games with me agree with that.

[TheKilo]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

[Cocos Disciples]

Home Run.

[schillingouttheks]

How do you like WMP now Fred?

 

Damn it. You beat me to it.

[ORS]

"If Crisp were (sic) performing' date=' he wouldn't be playing???? Try running that by me again. Notice last year they had this guy's face on billboards all over town hawking "Red Sox Nation Cards, Hood Dairy products and numerous other things. They wanted to make him the face of the Red Sox as quickly as possible to get our minds off of Johnny Damon. Well, guess what?? It failed as miserably as he did and now you see his face nowhere but Theo seems determined to see him succeed and that is why you hear nothing about bringing Murphy up, or considering a trade for someone who can put the ball in play. We have a gathering black hole in CF ORS whether you want to accept it or not. For the team's sake I hope Crisp snaps out of it. I don't think he will. I think he and Pena could both use a new address and to a man all my friends who saw those games with me agree with that.[/quote']

Take off pants.

Take off underpants.

Reach between butt-cheeks.

Remove head from ass.

 

We were talking about Pena. If Crisp was doing his job, Pena wouldn't be playing (or hitting 450+ ft moonshots).

[EvilDonut]

Home Run.

Like....when he plays more, he gets, like, better.

[CrespoBlows]

Byrnes collected two doubles last night facing Brad Penny. Last time I checked Penny was a righthander. Last time I checked Byrnes was hitting 288 with five doubles. Last time you checked what was Pena hitting? What was Crisp?

 

Two at-bats?

 

Seriously, two freaking at-bats?

 

Did you really use two-freaking at-bats?

 

No, you didn't. No one is that st......

 

WHAT

 

THE

 

f***

 

???

 

TWO FREAKING AT-BATS????

 

I'd show you that Eric Byrnes is a terrible hitter against RHP, but what's the point.

 

f*** you.

 

Seriously.

 

I have always been an Eric Brynes fan as you could see and that was because I loved his gritty hard nosed play.

 

How is Eric Byrnes' grit going to help the Red Sox going to score runs? David Eckstein is gritty, but he is an average SS. John Mabry eats dirt, but he is a terrible ball player. How is Byrnes' CLUTCH TUFF N GRIT going to help the Red Sox score runs?

 

We could always used that type of player on the Red Sox especially if they can hit and field and run.

 

He's average at best, at these things.

 

What the hell can Pena do but strike out.

 

Hit 500 foot laser beams, like the one five minutes ago.

 

I have seen this guy at bat ten times this season down in Florida and in Boston. One single and seven strikeouts. Some hitting, huh?

 

Do you have any idea how absurd it is to use sample sizes, that small?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma02.shtml

 

This guy is batting .200

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml

 

This guy is hitting .250

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml

 

This guy is under .180

 

f*** you, and your small sample sizes.

[castigs850]

wanted to keep this out of the gameday thread

 

Wily Mo Pena's power is real.

 

The fact that he was hitless in 7 AB's is totally irrelevant.

 

It's obvious he has power I dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him? and also how long do you give him to reach his stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if his numbers and overall play increase dramatically in a reasonable amount of time. But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp. In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact, that coupled with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark in regards to how good he will actually be, makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

 

Edit; better?

 

and thanks rdsxmbnt

[CrespoBlows]

it's obvious he has power i dont think anyone with a brain would argue that, but sometimes he looks helpless at the plate and most of the time he looks helpless in the field. its obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him but my question is how much will it help him? and how long do you give him to reach a stride? im all in favor of giving him a shot if the former is grand and the latter and minimal. in other words, his defense really scares me and that is a fact, that along with his offensive capibilities still being a question mark for how good he will actually be makes it a really tough call on who gets more playing time between him and crisp.

 

This is the most incoherent thing I have ever read. Space that out a bit, then I will respond.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Its not the best grammer post obviously, but I didn't find that it got in the way of his thoughts...

[CrespoBlows]

Its not the best grammer post obviously' date=' but I didn't find that it got in the way of his thoughts...[/quote']

 

What thoughts?

 

I need the Rosetta Stone to read that s***.

[castigs850]

i fixed it

[CrespoBlows]

It's also obv that playing time is the only thing that can help him, however my question is how much will it help him?

 

He started to get regular playing time in 2006, and he responded with an OPS in the .900's. He was our third best hitter until he hurt his wrist.

 

 

But if not i think i would rather the defense of Crisp.

 

There was no major difference between Pena and Crisp in CF, last year.

 

FRAA

 

Pena +0

Crisp +1

 

Pena also had a fairly good 2004 year in center as well. (+10 FRAA) I'm pretty confident that Pena would play a decent CF. Even if Crisp is better than him in the field, Pena's bat far outweighs the possible benefits of Crisp's glove.

 

 

 

In other words, his defense is extremely shakey and that is a fact,

 

In RF, yes. In CF, not so much.