Matsuzaka

[mar_022]

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/mlb/events/matsuzaka/index.jsp

 

on the right side is an interesting segment by Will Carroll on Matsuzaka's mechanics. Especially interesting is the side-by-side comparison of Clemens with Dice-K

[BronxBomber61]

I'm not going to try to claim that Dice-K didn't impress in his first start, he did. But after reading the press this morning you would think that Jesus was resurrected on the Thursday before Easter.

 

Let's put this in perspective, this is the Kansas City Royals and he is a new pitcher they never saw before. After a few at bats they did start to hit him around a little.

 

What is really being lost here is if you take out the KC defense and the bad call that cost KC at least one run the game story would be different. The real story would be that Greinke out pitched Matsuzaka for 7 innings against the great Boston offence.

[VaTechV-Tek]

also, don't you think the unusually high volume of press at a Royals game caused a little bit of over-reporting/embellishing by those who were there trying to out report each other? I like what i saw yesterday, but as far as press is concerned i'm waiting and giving them 2 grains of salt.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not going to try to claim that Dice-K didn't impress in his first start, he did. But after reading the press this morning you would think that Jesus was resurrected on the Thursday before Easter.

 

Let's put this in perspective, this is the Kansas City Royals and he is a new pitcher they never saw before. After a few at bats they did start to hit him around a little.

 

What is really being lost here is if you take out the KC defense and the bad call that cost KC at least one run the game story would be different. The real story would be that Greinke out pitched Matsuzaka for 7 innings against the great Boston offence.

 

I'd agree with that. Greinke dominated the sox. To this point, if Odalis Perez doesnt get painted by the rule 5 guy in game 2, the sox really only got 6 runs in 19.1IP against pitchers who actually belong in the major leagues. Texas has the makings of a very good bullpen, the sox will have to work the starting pitcher and have to earn it in the pen in this series.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't get how Greinke outpitched Matsuzaka...they had the same line except Matsuzaka had 2 less hits allowed, and 3 more strikeouts...remind me again how that equates to outpitching?

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't get how Greinke outpitched Matsuzaka...they had the same line except Matsuzaka had 2 less hits allowed' date=' and 3 more strikeouts...remind me again how that equates to outpitching?[/quote']

 

Greinke was facing the red sox offense while Matsuzaka faced the royals, who will likely be the worst hitting team in the AL this yr.

[CrespoBlows]

Greinke was facing the red sox offense while Matsuzaka faced the royals' date=' who will likely be the worst hitting team in the AL this yr.[/quote']

 

What the f*** does that mean?

 

Last time I checked, when you outpitch someone, you don't get a run or two factored into your equation because of who you were facing.

 

That's like saying David Cone should be faulted a run because he threw a no-hitter against the Expos.

[jacksonianmarch]

What the f*** does that mean?

 

Last time I checked, when you outpitch someone, you don't get a run or two factored into your equation because of who you were facing.

 

That's like saying David Cone should be faulted a run because he threw a no-hitter against the Expos.

 

He isnt being faulted a run. Greinke allowed 1ER in 7IP just like Matsuzaka did against a much better offense.

[yeszir]

What the f*** does that mean?

 

Last time I checked, when you outpitch someone, you don't get a run or two factored into your equation because of who you were facing.

 

That's like saying David Cone should be faulted a run because he threw a no-hitter against the Expos.

 

It means that they're yankee fans. A pitcher isn't good unless his last name is Petitte.

[seabeachfred]

also' date=' don't you think the unusually high volume of press at a Royals game caused a little bit of over-reporting/embellishing by those who were there trying to out report each other? I like what i saw yesterday, but as far as press is concerned i'm waiting and giving them 2 grains of salt.[/quote']

 

I'm happy you like what you saw yesterday because I am happy at what I saw, too, but I will give you that there was way too much hype for one game. However, that's going to be the nature of the beast until this clamor dies down. I will be in Fenway on Wednesday when he pitches in front of the home crowd and I'm sure there will bedlam galore, but all I give a damn about is how he pitches and whether the Red Sox win or not. With him on the mound they probably will but that is all Red Sox consider anyway---did we win.

 

Though it wasn't you who mentioned it, I'm just a little pissed off at those goofballs who said Dice K was outpitched by the Greinse or whatever the hell his name is. That's ********. Who won? Dice K. Who lost? Greenie. Case closed.

[seabeachfred]

It means that they're yankee fans. A pitcher isn't good unless his last name is Petitte.

 

You know yeszir, I really didn't expect all this handwringing from our Yankee friends on board. They are trying to put a happy face on a sour puce from the other end. The happy face belongs to us, not them. I get the feeling, too, that a few Dodger fans have entered this fray. Imagine Yankee and Dodger fans on the same side of an argument.

 

Dice K looked damn good to me and we have to remember it was his first Big League game and he probably had a lot of butterflies and nervous energy, and I don't think our Yankee buddies brought that into the equation. I, for one, would like to put this to sleep and concentrate on today's game. Bad enough we have to throw Wakefield in Texas where he never has pitched worth a s*** even when he was having a good year. Now we have to see him throwing down there when he's coming off a crappy spring. I would like to see a very pleasant surprise today. How about you?

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I'm doing every single thing I can do not get myself too excited over this whole thing. This is the Royals in April, not the Yankees in October. I was more impressed by his poise and composure on the mound than I was with his actual stuff. Not that his stuff wasn't impressive, it surely was...but the fact that he was able to look relaxed and calm knowing full well that an entire country back home and an entire Nation here was nitpicking his every single move was just unbelievable. The guy was out there and didn't even look to be breathing hard...he was just doing his thing. He has the same expression on his face going to pitch in front of eleventy-billion people as I do when I go into work every day. It was awesome.

 

I forget who was at bat, but there was a high fly ball hit with 2 outs and Daisuke was almost to the dugout before the fielder even caught the ball. I love that kind of cockieness and charisma in a pitcher.

 

I feel like Matsuzaka might have a bit of a high walk total this year...and I'm totally OK with that. I know he only walked one today, but the Royals chased a lot of bad pitches. I'm hoping that Daisuke (and actually, Beckett showed me a lot of this yesterday, too...) refuse to give into hitters. A Carlos Zambrano style approach...subscribing to the thinking that, "hey, if I've got 3 balls on a guy, I'm going to throw him some nasty breaking stuff and try to get him to chase...if he doesn't chase, that's fine, I'll walk him and go after the next. I'm not giving him a fastball down broadway." I think that's why Beckett gave up so many HRs last year...he's always felt that his FB is his best pitch, and it's what he automatically went to on 3 ball counts. I'd be very curious as to what percentage of his HRs were given up with 3 balls. Beckett is regaining his naaaaasty curveball, and Daisuke has 3987 breaking pitches...I love the idea of throwing them when they need a strike.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm doing every single thing I can do not get myself too excited over this whole thing. This is the Royals in April, not the Yankees in October. I was more impressed by his poise and composure on the mound than I was with his actual stuff. Not that his stuff wasn't impressive, it surely was...but the fact that he was able to look relaxed and calm knowing full well that an entire country back home and an entire Nation here was nitpicking his every single move was just unbelievable. The guy was out there and didn't even look to be breathing hard...he was just doing his thing. He has the same expression on his face going to pitch in front of eleventy-billion people as I do when I go into work every day. It was awesome.

 

I forget who was at bat, but there was a high fly ball hit with 2 outs and Matsu was almost to the dugout before the fielder even caught the ball. I love that kind of cockieness and charisma in a pitcher.

 

I feel like Daisuke might have a bit of a high walk total this year...and I'm totally OK with that. I know he only walked one today, but the Royals chased a lot of bad pitches. I'm hoping that Daisuke (and actually, Beckett showed me a lot of this yesterday, too...) refuse to give into hitters. A Carlos Zambrano style approach...subscribing to the thinking that, "hey, if I've got 3 balls on a guy, I'm going to throw him some nasty breaking stuff and try to get him to chase...if he doesn't chase, that's fine, I'll walk him and go after the next. I'm not giving him a fastball down broadway."

 

that is precisely the kind of outlook that gets you in trouble. You have to tailor your approach to certain hitters. If Pujols is at the plate, its better to see if he chases, but if a guy like Melky is at the plate, chances are he isnt taking you deep. You gotta give in. Beckett gave in in his last start against guys who he knew couldnt take him deep and it worked. Even the best will get out 7 out of 10 times. You take those chances over a 50/50 shot of getting a guy to chase vs walking him.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

that is precisely the kind of outlook that gets you in trouble. You have to tailor your approach to certain hitters. If Pujols is at the plate' date=' its better to see if he chases, but if a guy like Melky is at the plate, chances are he isnt taking you deep. You gotta give in. Beckett gave in in his last start against guys who he knew couldnt take him deep and it worked. Even the best will get out 7 out of 10 times. You take those chances over a 50/50 shot of getting a guy to chase vs walking him.[/quote']

 

Yea, but I don't consider a fastball to Melky "giving in"...Melky isn't that good of a hitter. He's slightly above average at best. I was talking more along the lines of the upper-echelon hitters in the league. Guys are always so afraid of walk totals that it seems no matter who is at the plate, they'll throw him a 3-2 fastball. I don't subscribe to this logic at all. Certain guys you can try to blow the fastball by...but other guys, give them the split in the dirt or a slider that breaks off the plate. If it's a ball, it's a ball and you get a clean-slate with the next guy.

[BSN07]

It means that they're yankee fans. A pitcher isn't good unless his last name is Petitte.

 

 

 

I love how they are doubting Matsuzaka's outing when Pettites line was horrible. But I know what they will say, he had to pitch in the snow, and against those pesky devil rays...

[seabeachfred]

BoNat, three games into the season and we are already at sword's point with the Yankee contingent. For me, though, I would just rather shitcan this discussion and concentrate on today's game vs Texas. We have Wakefield, horrible this Spring, going against a team he had a 7.59 ERA against last year. Talk about hoping to have your hitters ready. That's my focus right now. Dick K pitches Wednesday against Seattle and we can show the Yankee fans just how good he is when he goes out and wins again.

[example1]

Another good description of the 'gyroball'.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbUmL80Gio

 

I'm pretty sure this is the consensus on the pitch. If I have to hear Oral Hershiser call it "nothing but a change-up with screwball type action" one more time I'm going to leap through the screen and strangle the Baseball Tonight producers. That's his changeup, just like Pedros (which is supposedly his best pitch--he hardly threw it the other day at all).

 

It is not a change-up with screwball type action. It is a pitch with spin that looks like a slider but which travels perfectly straight. It is only useful when used in unison with an effective sllider, which Matsuzaka clearly has.

 

I imagine the reason he's so sneaky about whether he has it or not is that it is to his advantage for hitters to think that "all pitches with dots on them are sliders". It is amazing how inaccurate some people are about this stuff.

[jacksonianmarch]

Another good description of the 'gyroball'.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbUmL80Gio

 

I'm pretty sure this is the consensus on the pitch. If I have to hear Oral Hershiser call it "nothing but a change-up with screwball type action" one more time I'm going to leap through the screen and strangle the Baseball Tonight producers. That's his changeup, just like Pedros (which is supposedly his best pitch--he hardly threw it the other day at all).

 

It is not a change-up with screwball type action. It is a pitch with spin that looks like a slider but which travels perfectly straight. It is only useful when used in unison with an effective sllider, which Matsuzaka clearly has.

 

I imagine the reason he's so sneaky about whether he has it or not is that it is to his advantage for hitters to think that "all pitches with dots on them are sliders". It is amazing how inaccurate some people are about this stuff.

 

 

I completely agree.

[Peters34]

[Peters34]

That didnt work

[example1]

That didnt work

 

You should post the link man.

[BruinsFan]

I like how the scientist/pitcher explains that it really does nothing. It just fools the batter by making it look like every other pitch imaginable and then being its own thing. It isn't a variation on something else, well everything is if you think about it, but realistically, it's its own pitch

[jacksonianmarch]

I like how the scientist/pitcher explains that it really does nothing. It just fools the batter by making it look like every other pitch imaginable and then being its own thing. It isn't a variation on something else' date=' well everything is if you think about it, but realistically, it's its own pitch[/quote']

 

realistically, it is a pitch with fastball speed but the spin of a slider. If you have both a fastball and a slider along with a gyro, the hitter will lose his only way of deciphering between pitches. Thus he will be guessing instead of reacting and you will have him in the palm of your hands.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

Dice will be facing Felix Hernandez on Wednesday. Can't wait.

[example1]

Dice will be facing Felix Hernandez on Wednesday. Can't wait.

 

Argh. Felix is a tough assignment. If the sox can pull one out against him I will be impressed.

[soxlife92]

It's also the huge Japanese media game. Ichiro v. Matsuzaka. I'm psyched for that. Matchup from south-east asia.

[example1]

It's also the huge Japanese media game. Ichiro v. Matsuzaka. I'm psyched for that. Matchup from south-east asia.

 

 

Japan isn't in south-east asia. Perhaps east Asia...

 

geography aside, this is certainly the matchup of the year thus far and I'm both excited and nervous for it (you know, as if my life somehow depends on it!)

[Thumper]

Coming in late on this thread, I still have to say Dice K is gonna be with Boston for a long time. So long as Epstein doesn't get the $$ in his eyes.

 

But 10Ks in 7 innings for his MLB debut is purely amazing. Sure he's played in the Japanese leagues but still. For a rookie to the American baseball fashion, he's proved himself worthy enough already.

 

Believe it or not, I thought he was gonna be cursed since he's wearing 18 (Johnny "Sellout" Damon's old number). But I guess the luck stayed with the number. Or Dice K is just that good. Ha.

[jacksonianmarch]

Coming in late on this thread, I still have to say Dice K is gonna be with Boston for a long time. So long as Epstein doesn't get the $$ in his eyes.

 

But 10Ks in 7 innings for his MLB debut is purely amazing. Sure he's played in the Japanese leagues but still. For a rookie to the American baseball fashion, he's proved himself worthy enough already.

 

Believe it or not, I thought he was gonna be cursed since he's wearing 18 (Johnny "Sellout" Damon's old number). But I guess the luck stayed with the number. Or Dice K is just that good. Ha.

 

Today will be a battle. King Felix is a very good pitcher. Should a fun game. And another thing, give Matsuzaka a month before you proclaim him the next MLB ace. You did the same thing with Beckett last yr and he got raked by the end of April.

[riverside sluggers]

Hope the Sox bats can get a jump on Felix who hasnt pitched since the home opener wayy back on April 2. Hey a guy can dream. Not saying it will be a walk in the park, the kid is just nasty.

 

The Mariners bats will be back (well after Beckett 2 hit them for 7 innings) but they now have the challenge of facing Matsuzaka. Anyone think Ichiro will really be out now to make an impression on Dice-K, especially since yesterday he had 3 swinging K's against Beckett