RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[a700hitter]

GUYS! RJ SUCKED LAST YEAR! WHY ARE YOU GUYS HARPING ON THIS GUY LIKE HE WAS HORATIO AT THE BRIDGE FOR US?.

The guy had a herniatred disc in his back. In 2005 when his back was okay he was 17-8 with a 3.79 ERA and a 5-0 record vs. the Red Sox. Winning 17 games with a herniated disc is pretty good too. He's a pretty damn good pitcher when healthy, although he is no longer an overpowering force.

[Gom]

His velocity was down, his control was off, and he's 43. Did you expect him to be dominant until he was 57 years old? He has to fall off, and realize that at his age, he will get worse, not better.

 

You guys are going to see the same thing with Schilling very soon. I hope you hold on to him...and see how that will work out.

 

Also, he is missing the first part of the season. This trade will look like the steal of the year if he doesn't start pitching until July.

[BSN07]

Gom, we only have Schilling until the end of this year, he's retiring remember? RJ has 2 pitches and thats it, Schilling can get away with a little more since he has more then 2 pitches. Schilling is not the ace he was in 04 but I say he is still good for 15 wins.

 

As far as the better offseason goes, Like you put it Gom where about even on that one. We filled in the holes that held us back last year( besides closer, still up in the air) and you guys shed payroll and added depth in the depleated farm system. I say it's a draw, our 5 man rotation I would say is better then NYY's, but NYY lineup and bullpen are stronger then ours. I know a tie is like kissing your cousin, but I tip my hat to both clubs. I would have given it to Boston if they had got that closer postion filled with an actual closer, there still time for that tho:thumbsup:

 

My teams pitchers and catchers go in for training today! Makes the season feel that much closer!

[riverside sluggers]

His velocity was down, his control was off, and he's 43. Did you expect him to be dominant until he was 57 years old? He has to fall off, and realize that at his age, he will get worse, not better.

 

You guys are going to see the same thing with Schilling very soon. I hope you hold on to him...and see how that will work out.

 

Also, he is missing the first part of the season. This trade will look like the steal of the year if he doesn't start pitching until July.

 

We are going to see the same thing from Schilling very soon? Unlike RJ, Curt's still a better pitcher in the AL East. He is also 3 years younger and doesnt have even close to the back injury that's keeping RJ from being what he used to be. He's got motivation from the addition of potential ace Matsuzaka and the urge to walk into the sunset as 07 is his final season in the major leagues. As Bosox said, expect an ERA of like 4-4.25, 13-16 wins, 180+ Ks

[jacksonianmarch]

Curt is the better pitcher right now, no doubt. And the fact that they have him on a one yr deal and signed Matsuzaka and are moving Paps to the rotation makes things a little better. I dont think anyone can expect Schilling to have ace numbers, but I wouldnt say he is going to have an RJ-esque fall from grace. RJ was dominant in his day. He had 2 pitches that nobody could hit. Schilling was dominant too. His heat was powerful, but he didnt have any one pitch that was overly dominant aside from that heat. It was the fact that he could hit a corner on command with any pitch is what made him great, and what makes him still effective today with declining stuff. This is why guys like Wells, Clemens, Mussina, and Schilling have aged gracefully. Because location and stuff mixed with veteran savvy will tend to age better than a thrower. Plus, the thinkers of the game are typically your control pitchers, so they tend to make adjustments rather than be stubborn (like RJ was). If Schilling wanted to play 5 more yrs, I have no doubt that he'd be useful. Would he be the ace of old? Probably not, but he'd be a guy who could give you innings and still get people out. He wouldnt be a guy you'd be upset over him being in your rotation. RJ, he's a guy that we really tried to put a good light up to him as he was billed as the savior. But once the stuff and the health starts to go, you need to make adjustments. Mussina made them and had a career rennaissance. Randy made none and was dumped out of town.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not as good as:

Wang=Wang

Moose=Moose

Igawa>Johnson

Clemens>Wright

Pettitte>Chacon/Lidle

 

 

I like this one better

 

And btw, Clemens would not be coming to NY if RJ was still here.

[elsrbueno]

For what it's worth, Chein Ming Wang was the luckiest pitcher in baseball last year and Johnson was one of the unluckiest.

 

This to me says expect Johnson to be better (even if it was in NY) and Wang to get worse. How much better/worse, it's hard to say.

 

Here's the article

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/dips-lips-and-hips/

 

Now on to the trade: Despite reports that Randy Johnson says he'll be ready for Spring Training, many folks don't think he'll be ready to start the season. Take that into account and the Yankees got 3 prospects and a reliever (who'll be ready for opening day) for a 4 months of a 44 year old coming off of back surgery. I'd say they did pretty well especially considering Johnson's ugly numbers last season.

 

a700, I don't put any stock in W-L numbers, it's too dependant on support from teammates, and Randy got tons.

 

Now that Randy's in the NL West, presumedly a little luckier and a lot healthier, I expect him to return to being a good pitcher again. Gone are the 300 strikeout seasons but he should be a decent addition to the Diamondbacks young staff in May or whenever he's fully recovered.

 

As far as which team had the better offseason... there's already a thread for that.

[jacksonianmarch]

elsr, I agree 100% on RJ.

 

As for Wang, we'll have to see. You have to watch him, and how dominant he is before you really can make a judgement. He throws one pitch 85% of the time. It isnt like Chacon or Small, two guys who missed bats miraculously in 05. Wang has been doing this for 2 years now. 330IP of this style of work, and for the most part, it has been consistent. I like to listen to what other players say about pitchers after they face him. This made me worried when it came to Irabu, when Detroit said that he is no better than average and they were right. But it is encouraging about Wang. Most players say they know what is coming, but trying to hit a 95 mph bowling ball is easier said than done. That being said, improvements are going to be minimal for him. He'll never be the 25-4 2.5 era type of guy that is always a wet dream of baseball fans. But he'll be your consistent starter giving you a chance to win every night out. He may never K 200 guys, hell, he may never K 100. But he is a guy who you can hang your hat on, a young Kevin Brown with a better sinker and a better head on his shoulders.

[Mr Crunchy]

ny fans can say what they want about rj being gone but that gigantic sigh you heard yesterday was from 10,000,000 people in new england who are thrilled that this guy is now in arizona

[jacksonianmarch]

ny fans can say what they want about rj being gone but that gigantic sigh you heard yesterday was from 10' date='000,000 people in new england who are thrilled that this guy is now in arizona[/quote']

 

but why? I would think the gigantic sigh would have been when they heard he needed back surgery and would miss part of the season. I dont care what he did against you guys 2 yrs ago. Last season he was a BP machine. Just so happened that your BP machines worked better so he won 2 and only lost 1. Rico from the corner coffee shop could have won those games, let alone another big league pitcher.

 

And to think, a guy who slipped into the detriment category was going to come into the season late, and recovering from major surgery, oh and he would be 44 on the decline is suddenly the guy they never should have traded? I like ya crunch, but gimme a break here. I said I thought his ERA would improve but his peripherals worsen and he'd end the season as our #5. A #5 making 16 mil. I'd rather have Clemens, or Igawa for that matter.

[elsrbueno]

elsr, I agree 100% on RJ.

 

As for Wang, we'll have to see. You have to watch him, and how dominant he is before you really can make a judgement. He throws one pitch 85% of the time. It isnt like Chacon or Small, two guys who missed bats miraculously in 05. Wang has been doing this for 2 years now. 330IP of this style of work, and for the most part, it has been consistent. I like to listen to what other players say about pitchers after they face him. This made me worried when it came to Irabu, when Detroit said that he is no better than average and they were right. But it is encouraging about Wang. Most players say they know what is coming, but trying to hit a 95 mph bowling ball is easier said than done. That being said, improvements are going to be minimal for him. He'll never be the 25-4 2.5 era type of guy that is always a wet dream of baseball fans. But he'll be your consistent starter giving you a chance to win every night out. He may never K 200 guys, hell, he may never K 100. But he is a guy who you can hang your hat on, a young Kevin Brown with a better sinker and a better head on his shoulders.

 

 

Jackson, I appreciate what you're saying, but honestly I think you're letting you're passion for the Yankees blind your opinion.

 

The bottom line is that Wang is a contact pitcher who pitches in front of a marginal defensive team. Mientkiewicz will help, but Cano-Jeter-Rodriguez isn't an inspiring infield. I am a huge fan of Hideki Matsui, but he's not a tremendous defensive player and Damon/Abreu are in the decline phase of their careers. To boot, Wang is pitching in the division with the best offenses (Baltimore, Tampa, Toronto, and Boston will all have strong lineups) and Wang can't miss bats.

 

He's due for a regression. Will he be a QUALITY pitcher next year? I believe he will. However, to believe that Wang will be anything more than a #3 pitcher in 2007 or ever is really blind optimism. He'll win a crapload of games next year because he'll be pitching behind the best offense in baseball, but I'd say a 4.50 ish ERA is what you'll get from him next year.

[Mr Crunchy]

say what you will jack

but i wouldnt be surprised if david ortiz funded some of the defered money the yanks gave arizona

 

that ugly prick beat us constantly

whether he had a back issue or not the guy always pitched good enuff to win

[elsrbueno]

say what you will jack

but i wouldnt be surprised if david ortiz funded some of the defered money the yanks gave arizona

 

that ugly prick beat us constantly

whether he had a back issue or not the guy always pitched good enuff to win

 

 

For the record, Johnson's games pitched log vs the Red Sox in 2006:

 

May 9th: 3.2 IP, 5 H, 7 R, 2 ER 5 BBs 3 K's. (Red Sox win 14-3 Johnson takes the loss).

May 24th: 5 IP 9 H, 5 R, 5 ER 2 BBs, 8 K's. (Yankees win 8-6 Johnson gets the win).

Aug 19th: 7 IP, 4 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 6 BBs, 3 K's. (Yankees win 13-5. Johnson gets the win).

Sep 16th: 5.2 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 3 BBs, 6 K's. (Yankees win 7-5. ND for Johnson).

 

The bottom line is that against the Red Sox last year, Johnson was decent but not great. He gave the Yankees a chance to win every time out (except for the first game in which he allowed 5 unearned runs) and got the win 2 times as a result of that.

 

Johnson's production against the Red Sox alone is easily replaced by Pettite or Clemens. I won't say Igawa because we've got no idea what he brings on a daily basis....

 

I think Johnson was unhealthy (and unlucky) last year and should be better this year, and in that respect I'm not sad to see him go. However, to say even in jest that the Red Sox would pay his airfare to Arizona is overstating his contribution to the Red Sox/Yankee rivalry. He simply wasn't that good against us.

[jacksonianmarch]

if you got any pitching at all in those 4 games, RJ would have been 0-4.

[He Hate Me]

I honestly don't care how he did against the Red Sox, I just know he didn't bring it in the postseason. Most of the arguments here against the trade seems to be stemming from "well the Red Sox are so important that your players are measured by their performance against us". Sorry folks, that's just your egos talking. yes we would like to beat your asses in the regular season as frequently as possible, but we measure our players by their success in the playoffs. Cold hard fact.

 

I hate this trade not because RJ was awesome or anything against the Sox (he wasn't), but because I was hoping for a backup catcher and I'm not enamored with any of the prospects we got.

[jacksonianmarch]

major league ready pitching talent is worth more than a backup catcher. We werent going to get Montero from them, so asking for him wasnt gonna happen.

[He Hate Me]

We've had people like Stinett, Fasano, etc. Are you telling me that there is not one single catcher available ANYWHERE who isn't younger and better than these retreads?

[jacksonianmarch]

our future backup catcher will be in AA this yr. PJ Pillittere. Not totally horrible with the stick and a good glove. Sounds like a backup to me.

 

Honestly, unless you have a specialist on your roster who needs his own catcher, all you really need out of a backup catcher is defense. Chavez is a D first backup who will likely hit around .220. That is fine with me. What I dont like is that the best catching prospect in our minor league system is Montero and he is 4 years away and may be a 1b by the time he hits the majors. Posada is in the last yr of his contract (but he does have a player option), and I sure as hell dont want to give him a Varitek deal at 35. None of the FA options are nice aside from Barrett after this yr and Ross after next. So we may be forced to trade, or that may be the position taken with our first pick in the draft.

[BudLight]

Johnson was due $16M this season from the Yanks and then he would have been gone. Any GM worth his salt would have looked for a way to dump a declining FORMER all-star and Cy Young winner, freeing up over $10M even after chipping in $2M for his 2007 DBacks salary. Cashman has embraced the Stick Michael theory of building from within. All I have heard since Clemens and Pettite left the Bronx is how s***** their pitching staff has been, but I do believe they have won the division each year despite those staffs. Cashman is doing the right thing stockpiling arms for the future.. The Yankees need nothing offensively and that offense can more than make up for some bad pitching outings.

[Optimist]

Randy Johnson has been spotted leaving New York.

 

 

 

 

http://nomaas.org/images/randyzona.jpg

[Gom]

For the record, Johnson's games pitched log vs the Red Sox in 2006:

 

May 9th: 3.2 IP, 5 H, 7 R, 2 ER 5 BBs 3 K's. (Red Sox win 14-3 Johnson takes the loss).

May 24th: 5 IP 9 H, 5 R, 5 ER 2 BBs, 8 K's. (Yankees win 8-6 Johnson gets the win).

Aug 19th: 7 IP, 4 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 6 BBs, 3 K's. (Yankees win 13-5. Johnson gets the win).

Sep 16th: 5.2 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 3 BBs, 6 K's. (Yankees win 7-5. ND for Johnson).

 

The bottom line is that against the Red Sox last year, Johnson was decent but not great. He gave the Yankees a chance to win every time out (except for the first game in which he allowed 5 unearned runs) and got the win 2 times as a result of that.

 

Jacks you are pretty sharp. Do the math. That is over a 7 ERA. He didn't do decent. He OUTRIGHT SUCKED! HE HAD FOUR STARTS, DIDN'T HAVE ONE WELL PITCHED GAME! THE BEST GAME HE HAD WAS 7 INNINGS, 5 E.R., and 6 WALKS.

 

He's old. Injured. Velocity is down. Makes a ton of money. I tell you something, I make this trade even if he didn't have a huge salary. He may be decent for Arizona next year, maybe, but he would have sucked again in the AL East. You guys are driving me nuts here.

 

 

I must say, this thread has shown me that the overall intelligence on this board has decreased, or you are all still drunk from New Year's. I put you slightly above the intelligence of the average Yankee boards now.:harhar:

[jacksonianmarch]

Randy Johnson has been spotted leaving New York.

 

 

 

 

http://nomaas.org/images/randyzona.jpg

 

I'm gonna die!!! LOL

[hoke3182]

i was hoping the yanks would get stuck with johnson. great move cashman

[VA Sox Fan]

i was hoping the yanks would get stuck with johnson. great move cashman

 

 

Agreed. Cashman can do his job again and do it well w/ The Felon out of the way.

 

They're still stuck w/ A-Fraud (for now).....

[jacksonianmarch]

Agreed. Cashman can do his job again and do it well w/ The Felon out of the way.

 

They're still stuck w/ A-Fraud (for now).....

 

Next yr VA. Next yr.

[VA Sox Fan]

Next yr VA. Next yr.

 

I hope so, for your sake. Get rid of A-Rod and the Mousse and who knows? Ya know?

[jacksonianmarch]

I hope so' date=' for your sake. Get rid of A-Rod and the Mousse and who knows? Ya know?[/quote']

 

I like Mussina. He at least shows up when we need him. ARod sends his gay twin brother during crunch time.

[VA Sox Fan]

I like Mussina. He at least shows up when we need him. ARod sends his gay twin brother during crunch time.

 

That's all well and good. And even though I don't believe in curses, the Yanks signed Stanford boy in 2001, need I say more???

 

Choke-Rod continues to disappoint.

[jacksonianmarch]

he wont disappoint when we are up by 4 and need a cushion!

[VA Sox Fan]

he wont disappoint when we are up by 4 and need a cushion!

 

 

LMAO, "When it doesn't count, count on A-Rod"