Joel Pineiro? Seriously?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/479992p-403859c.html

But a person familiar with the Yankees' thinking said the team also has renewed interest in righthanded pitcher Joel Pineiro, who hit the free-agent market yesterday following a subpar season with Seattle. He was one of several players granted free agency because he was not tendered a contract by his 2006 club by Tuesday's midnight deadline.

 

Pineiro, 28, earned $6.8 million last season when he went 8-13 with a career-worst 6.36 ERA over 40 appearances - including 25 starts before he was shifted to the bullpen in August. The Yanks also had expressed interest in Pineiro before the July 31 trade deadline before acquiring Cory Lidle in the Bobby Abreu trade.

 

 

 

I don't know a lot about this guy, but his numbers have been pretty terrible since 2003. Why in the world are we interested in this guy? Can someone shed some light on this for me? Does this guy have something that I'm missing, or is Cash simply interested because he will come cheap and eat up innings?

[Cocos Disciples]

Matsuzaka? Phhh....he sucks...we'll call your Matsuzaka with Igawa, and raise you a Joel Piniero!

[RedSoxRooter]

I don't know a lot about this guy, but his numbers have been pretty terrible since 2003.

 

Anyone else sorta notice that after 2003 when the whole steroid testing thing really kicked in, a LOT of careers went down the shitter? Some waited another year or so to fall, but I think you can make this connection. If I could draw a line in the sand on steroids and the crackdown, I would look at marginal guys like Pineiro, Foulke, Nixon etc. and how they have fallen since.

 

Pineiro is one of those guys. Not a good pick up.

 

My opinion only.

[Fast Freddie]

Anyone else sorta notice that after 2003 when the whole steroid testing thing really kicked in, a LOT of careers went down the shitter? Some waited another year or so to fall, but I think you can make this connection. If I could draw a line in the sand on steroids and the crackdown, I would look at marginal guys like Pineiro, Foulke, Nixon etc. and how they have fallen since.

 

Pineiro is one of those guys. Not a good pick up.

 

My opinion only.

 

good point.

 

Erstad and Anderson on the Angels are great examples of this. So is Beltre.

[RedSoxRooter]

There's just a s*** load of guys like that. It's not normal. You can look at the stats of 2002 and players "entering their prime" and where they are now and it's amazing.

[rician blast]

Anyone else sorta notice that after 2003 when the whole steroid testing thing really kicked in, a LOT of careers went down the shitter? Some waited another year or so to fall, but I think you can make this connection. If I could draw a line in the sand on steroids and the crackdown, I would look at marginal guys like Pineiro, Foulke, Nixon etc. and how they have fallen since.

 

Pineiro is one of those guys. Not a good pick up.

 

My opinion only.

 

Yup. This is what leads me to suspect such guys as Trot, Beltre, Nomar, Bagwell, Brett Boone, Aubrey Huff, Lowell, Luis Gonzalez, Garrett Anderson, Lance Berkman,etc. Not that all these guys went down the crapper, but their power numbers generally decreased quite a bit.

[RedSoxRooter]

I don't think it's a matter of who did steroids - i think everyone did them. But I think it's a matter of who can survive and actually have a good career in baseball without them.

 

I don't think everyone can just switch to HGH (or they may choose not to). Either way, they are a different animal. Not everyone will make it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think it's a matter of who did steroids - i think everyone did them. But I think it's a matter of who can survive and actually have a good career in baseball without them.

 

I don't think everyone can just switch to HGH (or they may choose not to). Either way, they are a different animal. Not everyone will make it.

 

 

got a few friends who either are or were minor leaguers. It is still rampant. Most people even know when they will be called in, so they can cycle off in time.

[Gom]

Well, back to the subject of Piniero....not a bad move if he comes cheap. It really never hurts to stockpile arms. Injuries, ineffectiveness, potential trades...can't really hurt.

 

The Yankees have three solids in their rotation. Wang, Pettitte, and Mussina. Everyone else is a huge question mark. If you bring in four pitchers for two spots, you really can't lose.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

bring him in i guess. We will just replace him at the all-star break with Clemens anyway..

[a700hitter]

bring him in i guess. We will just replace him at the all-star break with Clemens anyway..

maybe they'll give him 3years/ $30 MILLION.

 

BTW: If Clemens plays for any team other than the Astros, it will be the Red Sox. John Henry will not let the Yankees win that bidding war if he has to bring the cash to Clemens doorstep and take him back on his jet. You can dream, but you will be disappointed.

[jacksonianmarch]

maybe they'll give him 3years/ $30 MILLION.

 

BTW: If Clemens plays for any team other than the Astros, it will be the Red Sox. John Henry will not let the Yankees win that bidding war if he has to bring the cash to Clemens doorstep and take him back on his jet. You can dream, but you will be disappointed.

 

cmon now 700. There is no reason for him to go to Boston. The sox have a 5 man rotation already. Houston is the likely destination. NYY second because of Pettitte and the fact that he actually has good memories from NY. Boston is a distant third.

[a700hitter]

cmon now 700. There is no reason for him to go to Boston. The sox have a 5 man rotation already. Houston is the likely destination. NYY second because of Pettitte and the fact that he actually has good memories from NY. Boston is a distant third.

He'll go to Boston if he doesn't go to Houston. JH will not let the Yankees outbid him, and the Rocket has always been all about the $. Unless Pettitte is his secret gay lover, I don't see that as a determining factor. It will be $ first, business as usual, for the Rocket man. Boston will not be outbid, and the Roger is not blind to the fact that mending his fences with Boston at the conclusion of his career will open up many marketing and personal appearance opportunities for many years to come. In NY, he's just another Yankee. In Boston he's a returning icon.

[kreinbihl34]

Um does a farewell tour sound good to you. It does to me and I can see Wake breaking down once more. After that he'll be moved to the pin and hello Mr. Clemens

[jacksonianmarch]

He'll go to Boston if he doesn't go to Houston. JH will not let the Yankees outbid him' date=' and the Rocket has always been all about the $. Unless Pettitte is his secret gay lover, I don't see that as a determining factor. It will be $ first, business as usual, for the Rocket man. Boston will not be outbid, and the Roger is not blind to the fact that mending his fences with Boston at the conclusion of his career will open up many marketing and personal appearance opportunities for many years to come. In NY, he's just another Yankee. In Boston he's a returning icon.[/quote']

 

700, usually you are a VERY good poster and I think you are rather well founded. But are you serious in the JH not being outbid ********? Do you remember Damon? Or Pedro? How about Lowe?

 

If the Yankees really want Clemens and he chooses to not go to Houston, they have all the leverage. The Yankees are already over the lux tax, so going further over isnt a worry. His best buddy is in NY. Plus, George is there. If he wants Clemens, he gets it done. I still cannot believe that anyone will outbid George if he really wants something. Clemens will be his last coup if Clem opens that door. I have a very feeling this may be George's last yr as head of the yankees. Hence, if Clem opens that door, there is NO WAY IN HELL he lets Henry do anything. Plus, why would Clemens want to go back to a fan base that turned their back on him?

[a700hitter]

700' date=' usually you are a VERY good poster and I think you are rather well founded. But are you serious in the JH not being outbid ********? Do you remember Damon? Or Pedro? How about Lowe? If the Yankees really want Clemens and he chooses to not go to Houston, they have all the leverage. [/quote']It's exactly because of Damon that JH will not let the Yankees get Clemens, and he will not have to outbid the Yankees. He'll only need to offer the same amount. Clemens is a smart enough business man to realize the other financial opportunities that will present themselves by his returning to Boston. Again as with Dice-K not going back to Japan, this is as clear as the nose on your face. Well, maybe you don't have a nose. This is cyberspace.

 

I still cannot believe that anyone will outbid George if he really wants something. Clemens will be his last coup if Clem opens that door. I have a very feeling this may be George's last yr as head of the yankees. Hence' date=' if Clem opens that door, there is NO WAY IN HELL he lets Henry do anything. Plus, why would Clemens want to go back to a fan base that turned their back on him?[/quote']The Boss doesn't know if he is in NY or Tampa from one minute to the next. He's more likely to insist that Cashman go after Catfish. The Boss will not be a factor.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are telling me that if Houston fell off the map, if he was offered the same amount and a spot in the rotation by both that he'd go to Boston? Why would you even think that is possible? It makes no sense.

 

1. The fans in NY dont hate him. The Sox fans ate him alive when he left.

2. His best friend is in NY

3. The offense and bullpen are better, so if he wants to climb up the wins list, his best chance is in NY

4. He has said that he wants to go into the hall as a Yankee. A redux in NY would be required for the HOF to allow that.

5. The sox dont want to cross the lux tax threshold, they wont have a choice if they go for Clem

 

5 reasons why he wont go to boston. The only reason I could see him returning to Boston would be to come full circle. But I think that may be lower on his list.

[a700hitter]

You are telling me that if Houston fell off the map, if he was offered the same amount and a spot in the rotation by both that he'd go to Boston? Why would you even think that is possible? It makes no sense.

 

1. The fans in NY dont hate him. The Sox fans ate him alive when he left.

2. His best friend is in NY

3. The offense and bullpen are better, so if he wants to climb up the wins list, his best chance is in NY

4. He has said that he wants to go into the hall as a Yankee. A redux in NY would be required for the HOF to allow that.

5. The sox dont want to cross the lux tax threshold, they wont have a choice if they go for Clem

 

5 reasons why he wont go to boston. The only reason I could see him returning to Boston would be to come full circle. But I think that may be lower on his list.

Clemens doesn't care about fans. He never did. The only three relevant reasons why Clemens would chose Boston over NY:

 

1. Boston will not be outbid, i.e the $

2. Mending Fences with NE will create many marketing opportunities after retirement when his only marketable asset is his good name, i.e. the $

3. He has mended fences with Red Sox ownership and management. He likes their style, and he can see potential business opportunities, i.e. the $

 

Continue to delude yourself with your NY egocentric view of life and sports. Didn't you believe that Dice-K dreamed of playing for the Yankees? Was that at the root of your fantasy-like thoughts of him snubbing the Red Sox and returning to Japan? Did you fantasize that he would return to the US in pinstripes? You have lost your credibility entirely with your weeks of baseless rants about the super-agent Boras when he clearly had no leverage and all of your other wacko scenarios which you came to believe in yourself. You also ignorantly ranted about the legal merits of the posting system (which is governed by contract law) as if some issue of constitutional rights was involved. It was just so ridiculous, but you went on and on and on about these matters in which you have no knowledge or expertise. Any capital or credibility that you might have had on these boards was flushed right down the toilet.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

JH will not let the Yankees outbid him

 

link?

 

 

 

 

Even if it is only about the money for Clemens, JH has already committed 200+ million this offseason. I can't see him shelling out what it's gonna take to land Clemens.

[jacksonianmarch]

Clemens doesn't care about fans. He never did. The only three relevant reasons why Clemens would chose Boston over NY:

 

1. Boston will not be outbid, i.e the $

2. Mending Fences with NE will create many marketing opportunities after retirement when his only marketable asset is his good name, i.e. the $

3. He has mended fences with Red Sox ownership and management. He likes their style, and he can see potential business opportunities, i.e. the $

 

Continue to delude yourself with your NY egocentric view of life and sports. Didn't you believe that Dice-K dreamed of playing for the Yankees? Was that at the root of your fantasy-like thoughts of him snubbing the Red Sox and returning to Japan? Did you fantasize that he would return to the US in pinstripes? You have lost your credibility entirely with your weeks of baseless rants about the super-agent Boras when he clearly had no leverage and all of your other wacko scenarios which you came to believe in yourself. You also ignorantly ranted about the legal merits of the posting system (which is governed by contract law) as if some issue of constitutional rights was involved. It was just so ridiculous, but you went on and on and on about these matters in which you have no knowledge or expertise. Any capital or credibility that you might have had on these boards was flushed right down the toilet.

 

My thoughts on Matsuzaka may have been rather delusional, I admit that. But, I am by no means deluded in other areas.

 

First of all, the idea that Clemens leaves Houston sounds rather far fetched to begin with.

 

Second of all, when in holy hell did John Henry become a guy who would never be outbid for anyone. Are you out of your frickin mind? So JH finally grows the balls to outbid a couple people for 2 players this offseason. Thing is, if he never let his players walk he wouldnt have to be ponying up. Also, the one player that he outbid the yankees on this season was in a silent bid!!!

 

Do you honestly think that the yankees would sit back and allow Roger to go to Boston if they knew the price it would take to

A. Put him in the Yankee rotation and

B. to keep him out of Boston?

 

George has been doing this for years. He will throw his hat in the ring just to dig at Boston just a little. He actually threw away talent to prevent Colon from going to Boston, and all he got back was Osuna who was useless compared to what they gave up at the time. He does it all the time.

 

You still havent addressed the salary cap issue. I dont think you will either. Adding Clem WILL put the sox over the lux tax, no way around it, unless you want to deal Manny (and if you do that you can have clemens, your team wont do anything this yr)

 

Your belief in Clemens coming back to Boston for any other reason other than them being the only bidder are gone.

 

His marketing opportunities? Right now he has no marketing gigs in NY. If he came to NY, he would have 3 times the opps than he would in Boston, simply because NY is much bigger.

 

And you cannot use the whole, they are full of stars argument, because the sox are too.

 

You cannot put the whole he has a better chance of winning argument there either because the yankees have the better pen and the better offense, which if given to a pitcher who would have the same performance in either place would translate into more wins.

 

As far as potential business opps, are you out of your mind? This isnt the bruins here throwing a piece of the business at Bobby Orr, it is the red sox FO who are making more money than you or I will see in our lifetimes combined. Do you really think they would throw him a piece of their business? Lets not be DELUSIONAL here.

[a700hitter]

My thoughts on Matsuzaka may have been rather delusional' date=' I admit that. But, I am by no means deluded in other areas. [/quote']I am glad you agree, and people who are delusional are not usually delusional about isolated issues or matters

 

First of all' date=' the idea that Clemens leaves Houston sounds rather far fetched to begin with. [/quote']I didn't say he would leave Houston, but if he plays anywhere other than Houston, it will be with Boston.

Second of all' date=' when in holy hell did John Henry become a guy who would never be outbid for anyone. Are you out of your frickin mind? So JH finally grows the balls to outbid a couple people for 2 players this offseason. Thing is, if he never let his players walk he wouldnt have to be ponying up. Also, the one player that he outbid the yankees on this season was in a silent bid!!![/quote']JH looks like a skinny nerd, but he is a highly motivated aggressive business man that likes bold moves. He has coveted the Rocket since last year when they put on the full court press to get him.

You still havent addressed the salary cap issue. I dont think you will either. Adding Clem WILL put the sox over the lux tax, no way around it, unless you want to deal Manny (and if you do that you can have clemens, your team wont do anything this yr)

 

Your belief in Clemens coming back to Boston for any other reason other than them being the only bidder are gone

.Did you ever think that the Red Sox FO would bid $51.5 million to win Dice-K's negotiating rights and in the process outbid the next closest bidder by $10 million and outbid the Yankees by more than $15 million? The Red Sox have paid luxury tax before. I suspect they will pay it again, if that is what it takes to make the strong bold moves to make a Championship run.

His marketing opportunities? Right now he has no marketing gigs in NY. If he came to NY, he would have 3 times the opps than he would in Boston, simply because NY is much bigger.

 

And you cannot use the whole, they are full of stars argument, because the sox are too.

Again your delusions are crowding out sound reasoning. Yes NY is bigger, but Clemens was never a NY icon. He was never the biggest star in his time in NY. In Boston he was an icon for more than a generation of kids and adults. He was the brightest star for 13 years. He was a Boston icon, but you can't get that through your thick skull. I went to a game last year where the guys who went to Red Sox fantasy camp got to take the field and few bows in full uniform. The most popular number worn by these adult campers was Rocket's #21. More campers wore that than #8 or 9. This surprised even me. He holds a much more special place for Red Sox fans than he does for Yankee fans. He and his agent know that this would translate into tremendous financiial opportunities. While NYC is bigger than Boston, it is not any bigger than all of New England.

 

As far as potential business opps' date=' are you out of your mind? This isnt the bruins here throwing a piece of the business at Bobby Orr, it is the red sox FO who are making more money than you or I will see in our lifetimes combined. Do you really think they would throw him a piece of their business? Lets not be DELUSIONAL here.[/quote']Who said that they would give him part of the team? I said that his relationship with the owners can translate into business opportunities. The Red Sox do a good job of using former stars for promotional purposes. Yaz, Tiant, Fisk and Evans get a nice tidy sum of money each year to make a few appearances in luxury boxes with high-paying luxury box ticket owners and dinner appearances with those people. I've had the pleasure of having dinner at Smith and Wollensky's with Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman courtesy of the Mets, because my nephew rents a luxury box at Shea stadium. They were not there for free. They are under contract for a minimum number of appearances for the Mets and HOFer Seaver gets alot more money than Koosman. Clemens would be much sought after by the Red Sox for such appearances. It's easy work and it pays very well. These opportunities would be numerous if the Rocket comes back for a final farewell tour.

[riverside sluggers]

700' date=' usually you are a VERY good poster and I think you are rather well founded. But are you serious in the JH not being outbid ********? Do you remember Damon? Or Pedro? How about Lowe? [/quote']

 

And yet people continue to bash the Sox for not shelling out more to keep Pedro

 

Please, yes Pedro will go down in infamy as one of the best pitchers the Sox will ever see... But now with his increasing injury concerns and decreasing power presence, the Sox made a very good move of not getting themslves into a messy contract

 

Plus' date=' why would Clemens want to go back to a fan base that turned their back on him?[/quote']

 

And you are pulling this from where? I do believe its coming from out of your ass. Yeaa um a good majority wants to see Roger back in a Sox uniform just to let you know. During his time with the Yankees it was nothing but a grudge, sseeing our ace of 13 years now winning championships for the team we hate with so much passion

[jacksonianmarch]

the boston fans from 10 yrs ago ATE HIM ALIVE. If you are not old enough to know, I am. He was brutalized in the media to a degree that would make Johnny Damon look like a saint. If you want to know a little about it, ask Mr Crunchy. He's an old timer who remembers it vividly from the sox side of things.

[riverside sluggers]

the boston fans from 10 yrs ago ATE HIM ALIVE. If you are not old enough to know' date=' I am. He was brutalized in the media to a degree that would make Johnny Damon look like a saint. [b']If you want to know a little about it,[/b] ask Mr Crunchy. He's an old timer who remembers it vividly from the sox side of things.

 

Excuse me but Im 24 years old, Im not a f***ing kid. I grew up watching Clemens, and there was distaste for him going to the team that Sox fans hate so much. I guarantee put up a poll on boston.com or any other affiliated new england website asking would Sox fans want to see Roger in a Sox uniform again... Id be surprised if a larger percentage were to say no.

[jacksonianmarch]

so you were 12? when he left. Yeah, you remember it well LOL. Ask Crunchy, he was a bit older and more mature when Clem left. Just ask him what happened.

 

On a side note, if a city essentially cursed your name after you left, then called and said we missed you, would you have any interest in going back? Hypocritical to say the least.

[a700hitter]

the boston fans from 10 yrs ago ATE HIM ALIVE. If you are not old enough to know' date=' I am. He was brutalized in the media to a degree that would make Johnny Damon look like a saint. If you want to know a little about it, ask Mr Crunchy. He's an old timer who remembers it vividly from the sox side of things.[/quote']I am plenty old enough to remember the Rocket as a Rookie. When he left Boston, he was not eaten alive by the fans. Far from it, Dan Duquette was eaten alive for Clemens leaving until the day he was fired. I do vividly remember Clemens first appearance at Fenway in a visitor's uniform. He kicked his old clubs ass, and the fans gave him several rousing ovations. It was strange how he got cheered when he struck out Mo Vaughn. I think Mo Vaughn had a comment about it after the game about how it was a little confusing to hear the fans cheer when he got k'd. The Rocket left the mound one inning to an ovation and he gestured up to Duquette. I remember that. Apparently, you didn't know that. As usual, you are talking out of your ass and further deteriorating your already extremely damaged credibility here. Clemens was booed and abused when he donned the pinstripes, as was Damon. I think he is smart enough to know that it was nothing personal. It was just the pinstripes. We even gave him a standing ovation when we though he was retiring, even though he was in pinstripes, or don't you remember that either. You need to start coming up with better quality posts.

[CrespoBlows]

so you were 12? when he left. Yeah' date=' you remember it well LOL. Ask Crunchy, he was a bit older and more mature when Clem left. Just ask him what happened. [/quote']

 

The New York Post and Daily News ripped Clemens when he left New York. Based on your logic, he won't be going back there, either.

 

On a side note, if a city essentially cursed your name after you left, then called and said we missed you, would you have any interest in going back? Hypocritical to say the least.

 

Stupid, and leaving out facts to say the least. ^

[riverside sluggers]

Lets see here I was born in 1982, he left in 1996... do the math and youre off by 2 years, i was in high school. The f*** I need to ask other posters what had happened. Everyone knows the Boston media has a bias towards players leaving town. No one will deny it. What Ive been trying to say is that times have changed and Sox fans have long wanted Roger back in Boston.

[Plumpamania]

First off, forget about Clemens for now.

 

Secondly, Piniero would be in the AAA rotation if we signed him or competing for the closer's job. Period.

[Cocos Disciples]

I think we're talking about Piniero to the Yankees...also, if he's only good enough for the AAA rotation, why the f*** would we even consider him for the closer role?