Could Brad Lidge be the final piece?

[scaffolds]

With the Sox signing of Doug Mirabelli and Matsuzaka about to be signed the closer is the final piece for the Sox roster in 2007. The Sox brass keeps insisting that Papelbon won't be the closer. The Hoouston Astros just traded their CF Willie Taveras and have a gapping hole in CF. Could Brad Lidge be the Sox closer in 2007? How about Coco Crisp to the Astros for Brad Lidge?

[Rdsxmbnt]

id do it

[Cocos Disciples]

Big risk, hes shown hes not very great in pressure spots, i.e. playoffs against Pujols. But if you really dissect his numbers, besides ERA theyre pretty solid. 104 strikeouts in 75 innings, 1.4 WHIP, .238 BAA. Career numbers of a 3.29 era, 473 strikeouts in 334 innings, and a .211 BAA. The ERA number from last year is curious...a lotta homers.

[arbitrary]

But how well would the pitching equivilent of Crisp do against Pujols?

 

I'm not sure who'd I'd rather part with: Willy Mo or Crisp; they both have very likable qualities, but I'd rather take Crisp in the end. Send 'em Willy Mo (sure why not, eh? :thumbsup: )

[jacksonianmarch]

Cocout for Lidge? Need more than that right now my friend, Coco has little value.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Id trade Coco because we have a player that can replace the kind of production he brings coming up next year in Ellsbury, we dont have a potential 40+ HR hitter in the system that is near ready.

[Bud]

Lidge would be great - had a rough year last year but I think he's still a good closer

[scaffolds]

Big risk' date=' hes shown hes not very great in pressure spots, i.e. playoffs against Pujols. But if you really dissect his numbers, besides ERA theyre pretty solid. 104 strikeouts in 75 innings, 1.4 WHIP, .238 BAA. Career numbers of a 3.29 era, 473 strikeouts in 334 innings, and a .211 BAA. The ERA number from last year is curious...a lotta homers.[/quote']

 

 

Lidge may have had some problems last year, most closers have them, not one can question how good his stuff is. i take Lidge over Cordero anytime. The question is Crisp enough to plug Lidge away from the Astros. I believe that if the Sox play their cards right it could be enough. It isn't that i am down in Crisp, as a matter fact i believe that a ahealthy Crisp will be a lot different player than he was in 06, however with Jacoby Ellsbury at the door steps and might be in Boston by the All Star break.

[yankeessuck013]

Cocout for Lidge? Need more than that right now my friend' date=' Coco has little value.[/quote']

 

I think a good young outfielder with .300 potetntial, good speed and a bit of pop in the bat is already too much for a hard-throwing reliever who has head problems and proven he cannot close games of importance.

[scaffolds]

Cocout for Lidge? Need more than that right now my friend' date=' Coco has little value.[/quote']

 

An organization can't judge Coco Crisp with the way he played in 2006, he was never the same player after he hurt his finger, an organization will judge him more for his 2004 and 2005 season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Both guys are coming off a down yr. But you have to think about their value if they are at their best, and sorry to say, but an absolute lights out closer is much more valuable than a free swinging switch hitter with minimal power who is below average as a CFer. Also, last season, Lidge wasnt THAT bad. Last yr, Coco was.

[ANiMAL]

if we get lidge, im pretty sure ill blow a load in my pants

[redsoxrules]

if we get lidge' date=' im pretty sure ill blow a load in my pants[/quote']

 

dosent take much

[ORS]

Coco got injured. Why did Lidge s*** the bed?

 

Coco hit 16 HR, put an .810 OPS, and rated as the best LF in baseball defensively. That was good enough for a 6.3 WARP season as a 25 y/o. To put that in perspective, Manny put up a WARP of 6.3 last year. Coco's good enough to get Lidge.

[Papelbon58]

I would do it, but I certainly do not think the Astros would settle for that. They also lost two good young pitchers, and they would probably want one of our big prospects, in which case Lidge is a little bit too risky for me.

[Bosoxwest]

Again, I'll take Wheeler please, especially if we're dealing Coco. Wheeler's been lights out for the past three years running. I'd perhaps do WMP for Lidge. Lidge blew up last year, and for an easily explicable reason. I'll let Houston's Clear Thinker break it down:

 

Brad Lidge: F Lidge (5.28 ERA/-6 RSAA) was one of the worst pitchers on the Stros pitching staff this season. It's not difficult to understand why -- he simply has lost his ability to throw his devastating slider for strikes consistently. As a result, hitters are laying off Lidge's slider and laying into his fastball, which Lidge does not locate well. Ever since his breakout performance in 2004 (26 RSAA), Lidge has been trending steadily downward (only an 8 RSAA over the past two seasons). The more consistent Wheeler now has a better RSAA than Lidge over the past three seasons and should be the closer going into the 2007 season. Although his trade value has plummeted over the past year, the Stros should definitely listen to reasonable offers for Lidge. It is looking less likely with each passing season that he will ever regain his dominating 2004 level of performance.

 

http://blog.kir.com/archives/cat_sports_astros_baseball.asp

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the stros will keep both and try to have a solid 1-2 punch. ESPECIALLY since they lost their 2 and 3 respectively.

[scaffolds]

Coco isn't only the CF that the Astros needs, but he could replace the speed that they lost when Taveras was traded in addition to more pop potential. Lidge isn't the first top closer that has had a bad playoff series, but that doesn't means he can't close preasure games.

[CrespoBlows]

Big risk' date=' hes shown hes not very great in pressure spots, i.e. playoffs against Pujols. But if you really dissect his numbers, besides ERA theyre pretty solid. 104 strikeouts in 75 innings, 1.4 WHIP, .238 BAA. Career numbers of a 3.29 era, 473 strikeouts in 334 innings, and a .211 BAA. The ERA number from last year is curious...a lotta homers.[/quote']

 

You've got to be kidding me. Brad Lidge was dominant in the postseason before Pujols hit a homerun off of him.

 

If the Astros offer him for Crisp, the Red Sox have to take it.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah, but after that, he completely lost it. He wasn't anything special in 2006...maybe it had an effect.

[CrespoBlows]

Again, I'll take Wheeler please, especially if we're dealing Coco. Wheeler's been lights out for the past three years running. I'd perhaps do WMP for Lidge. Lidge blew up last year, and for an easily explicable reason. I'll let Houston's Clear Thinker break it down:

 

Brad Lidge: F Lidge (5.28 ERA/-6 RSAA) was one of the worst pitchers on the Stros pitching staff this season. It's not difficult to understand why -- he simply has lost his ability to throw his devastating slider for strikes consistently. As a result, hitters are laying off Lidge's slider and laying into his fastball, which Lidge does not locate well. Ever since his breakout performance in 2004 (26 RSAA), Lidge has been trending steadily downward (only an 8 RSAA over the past two seasons). The more consistent Wheeler now has a better RSAA than Lidge over the past three seasons and should be the closer going into the 2007 season. Although his trade value has plummeted over the past year, the Stros should definitely listen to reasonable offers for Lidge. It is looking less likely with each passing season that he will ever regain his dominating 2004 level of performance.

 

http://blog.kir.com/archives/cat_sports_astros_baseball.asp

 

If Lidge's slider was as bad as you say it was, he wouldn't have fanned 100 batters in 73 innings.

[Papelbon58]

Lidge is a blob of jelly whenever a big game is on the line now. Pujols completely oblitterated his killer mentality.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Lidge's slider was as bad as you say it was' date=' he wouldn't have fanned 100 batters in 73 innings.[/quote']

 

 

consistency my friend.

[scaffolds]

Wheeler is a very good set up pitcher, but not a closer.

[schillingouttheks]

You've got to be kidding me. Brad Lidge was dominant in the postseason before Pujols hit a homerun off of him.

 

If the Astros offer him for Crisp, the Red Sox have to take it.

 

I'm going to have to agree with this guy here. He was fine until Pujols happened. Guess what happens if we get Lidge? No Pujols until MAYBE the world series. You can't say it wouldn't help the guy to know that Pujols wasn't even in the same league.

[Gom]

Coco got injured. Why did Lidge s*** the bed?

 

Coco hit 16 HR, put an .810 OPS, and rated as the best LF in baseball defensively. That was good enough for a 6.3 WARP season as a 25 y/o. To put that in perspective, Manny put up a WARP of 6.3 last year. Coco's good enough to get Lidge.

 

Are you serious? Just when I think you are getting close to reality, you say something like this. Hey, I have an idea! Why don't the YANKEES sign Bernie Williams and trade him for Lidge!!! I mean, Williams had a better year than Coco at the plate! Do you realize the ridicule I would get here if I even dared to mention this in all seriousness?

 

If you are going to use the 2005 stats for Crisp, then you should do the same with Lidge. An .810 ops outfielder for a guy who had a 2.29 ERA, 103K in 70 IP, and a 1.15 WHIP? Get real.

 

Come on ORS, you are better than that.

[schillingouttheks]

The difference is that Coco is about to enter his prime at 27 years of age and a lot of GMs buy into his value. Bernie Williams is 11 years older.

[Gom]

The difference is that Coco is about to enter his prime at 27 years of age and a lot of GMs buy into his value. Bernie Williams is 11 years older.

 

Both are useless. Crisp and Williams. At least Lidge has a serious upside. Houston would be idiotic to move the guy for a has been or a never gonna be.

[schillingouttheks]

Both are useless. Crisp and Williams. At least Lidge has a serious upside. Houston would be idiotic to move the guy for a has been or a never gonna be.

 

Crisp is...useless...? Did you type that with a straight face?

[seabeachfred]

I haven't heard Lidge's name come up in trade talks for almost a month and wonder if this is just a pile of smoke. He has not been on the Red Sox radar since the FA season opened and wonder if we are even interested in him. Don't get me wrong, if Lidge is healthy a trade of Crisp for Lidge would be ideal from where I sit, but if he is less than 100% physically we ought to be very careful. We do have a backup plan in CF in Jacoby Ellsbury who will our CF in 2008 if not sooner should he get off to a good start. Still, I would rather trade Pena since Coco can do some things that Wily cannot do, like catch balls consistently.