Report: Red Sox, Matsuzaka agree to deal

[Gom]

Pettitte too. Mark him down for $22.4M next year.

 

I mean, if the posting fee goes into Matsuzaka's salary, then Pettitte's $6.4M luxury tax hit should go into his.

 

Reasonable enough.

 

Are the Sox over the luxury tax threshold now?

 

The luxury tax has never really bothered the Yankees. Also, with Pettitte coming off the books after this season along with RJ, they can make a serious push for Zambrano. With Moose and Pavano coming off the books, they can make a serious push for Peavy or Sheets. So the Yankees are improving their model it seems, as are the Sox. Should be fun.

 

Congrats again on Dice-k. Good job.

[scaffolds]

i cannot wait for next season to start.. i swear.. i hope we make no mistakes' date=' we have 6 SP [pap, beck, schill, dice-k, wake, lester'] and illl be pissed if we trade anyone one of them away [shades of last year]

 

The chances of Lester breaking camp with Boston are very slim and may spend the first half of the AAA season in Pawtucket for two reasons, first of all because of his health issues, but also because he struggle in his last few outings, he isn't a finished product.

[seabeachfred]

Bitter much. Absolutely' date=' I admit it. I went to bed last night feeling all warm and fuzzy that Matsu was going back to Japan. Today I get smacked back to reality. Score one for the sox, AND the rivalry. This is gonna be one hell of a yr.[/quote']

 

That's the spirit Jackson. Score one for us and the increasing fire of the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry flames hotter than every before. You're feelings are understandable considering who you root for, but let's be honest with each other, the Red Sox needed a good off season this year after the last two debacles of post 2004 and 2005. Upgrading our offense in RF and SS, getting what should be a outstanding starting pitcher, grabbing a reliever from Nippon who has a good track record, all these moves have given us a chance to give the Yankees all they can handle next season. Great for baseball. :D :D :D

[riverside sluggers]

Reasonable enough.

 

Are the Sox over the luxury tax threshold now?

 

The luxury tax has never really bothered the Yankees. Also, with Pettitte coming off the books after this season along with RJ, they can make a serious push for Zambrano. With Moose and Pavano coming off the books, they can make a serious push for Peavy or Sheets. So the Yankees are improving their model it seems, as are the Sox. Should be fun.

 

Congrats again on Dice-k. Good job.

 

Thanks for acting in a respectful manner. Kudos to the Yanks getting Pettitte back, I was doing dances when he was out of the AL East. His record flat out own Boston and especially in Fenway Park

 

With an "estimated" $8.6 million owed to him this season, that would put the payroll at $138.6 million.

[jacksonianmarch]

I still think the sox have a gaping hole in their team in the bullpen, but the sieve of 2006 is tightening up. What I find interesting is that Theo has the perfect example of how to win a few hundred miles away. No matter how stupid you can be with your money, so long as you win the games that are handed to your closer, you will do well. If you pick ONE man on the yankees who was the biggest reason for the recent run of championships, you point to Mo. I find it interesting that Theo sees this first hand and refuses to acknowledge it on his own team.

[Cocos Disciples]

Meanwhile, I expect Zito to sign soon...where, I do not know.

[schillingouttheks]

I still think the sox have a gaping hole in their team in the bullpen' date=' but the sieve of 2006 is tightening up. What I find interesting is that Theo has the perfect example of how to win a few hundred miles away. No matter how stupid you can be with your money, so long as you win the games that are handed to your closer, you will do well. If you pick ONE man on the yankees who was the biggest reason for the recent run of championships, you point to Mo. I find it interesting that Theo sees this first hand and refuses to acknowledge it on his own team.[/quote']

 

I don't think it's that he hasn't acknowledged it, it's just that there really hasn't been anyone worthy of spending a lot of money on for the closer's role. Speier and Borowski should have been signed by the Sox to strengthen the bullpen, no question. But when it came down to it, the Sox wanted to open up their wallets this offseason, and when no closers that were worthy of large contracts appeared, they spent their money on guys that they needed to strengthen the team like Lugo, Drew, and obviously Matsuzaka. Sure, the Drew deal was a bit outrageous, but such is this year's market. I'm happy that they spent their money this way instead of overpaying for a sell out like Baez, Gagne or Borowski to hold the back end of the bullpen. In short, the market was not a closer's market this year. The Sox wisely used their money in other areas.

[example1]

you have improved your team more than the yankees have. Unfortunately for you, there was a VERY large difference between the 2 teams. You needed a SP - check. You needed a RFer I guess - check. You needed a SS - check. You need an entire bullpen - still in progress.

 

The Yankees needed to deal sheff - check. Deal Wright - check. Add a top line SP - check. Didnt really need Igawa, but - check. Improve the farm - check. Now they need a first baseman - pending.

 

I really think you're overestimating the difference between these teams from last year.

 

The Yankees got lucky to deal Wright. They dealt Sheff in a fair deal. I am not at all threatened by it as a Sox fan, other than that Detroit now has Sheff--who I always feared as a player.

 

I guess I consider Pettitte a top line SP, but if he was so top-line then why did the Yankees let him go? He's a very good pitcher. He's not dominant but Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, Johnson and someone else is a pretty good rotation. Nobody who is dominant, no real anchor unless RJ steps up again. I see a lot of veterans who are doing their own thing... as usual in NY. Giambi, Damon, A-Rod, Sheffield, Abreu, RJ, Mussina, etc.? Imported stars.

 

I would much rather have Schilling, Matsuzaka, Beckett, Papelbon and Wakefield/Lester (who has said he will be at SP... but whom I would use as lefty long relief to keep him healthy). I LOVE the young core of Matsuzaka, Beckett, and Papelbon for the next 3-4 years.

 

I think next year the teams will be close head-to-head, as usual. A lot depends on if Manny is playing or if the Sox are able to improve their bullpen.

 

If I'm the Red Sox I think I'm more likely to trade a young starter (Bowden or Bard) than an OF because they have a few young starters for the future, they need something to help them now, and young starters appear to be about the most valuable commodity (i.e., a better return for next year or the year after). They have control of Crisp and WMP for a few years at reasonable prices, they're young so they're useful to build a team around.

 

I also think WMP is an intimidating bat to have on the bench. Both WMP and Coco deserve a full year on a functioning team to evaluate them. WMP should be batting RH off the bench, platooning with Drew and giving drew a rest to keep him healthy. Coco should have an everyday spot in the bottom of the order where he can try to use his speed. If they stay healthy I predict 95 runs for Coco this season.

 

Anyway, it should be a hell of a year.

[jacksonianmarch]

sotk, love the title. Must say though, you have to address that. The lack of a sure fire closer cost the sox 2003 as Grady didnt have faith in his pen. Lack of a pen at all cost the sox 2002. The one yr they get it right, they win it all. 2005 was a mulligan in that Foulke exploded. 2006, the sox had the closer and hence why they were flying so high when they were severely flawed. The flaws eventually win out, as do the injuries. This time, the sox may not be spectacular in any area, but they are good enough to win if they can g a good bullpen. Without that, I have no idea what will happen. The sox will be impossible to predict. I dont need to tell you what suffering through a bad pen is like, 2007 will be no different.

[jacksonianmarch]

as for dealing sheff in a fair deal, the reports are that the sox raised demands after what the yankees got for sheff. I'd say the sox would say they got more than "fair" value.

[example1]

as for dealing sheff in a fair deal' date=' the reports are that the sox raised demands after what the yankees got for sheff. I'd say the sox would say they got more than "fair" value.[/quote']

 

Raised demands on what?

 

Detroit got a good player man. He's a real threat to other teams as he's got tremendous power and can't be beat by a fastball. The Yankees got three prospects, Sanchez the prize of the bunch. At 13m a season Sheffield is not a burden for a highly competitive team after a good season (Detroit), especially not when players like Lee and Soriano get contracts like they did this year. He's valuable. In that sense I think the deal is fair. Detroit still has a great young core of pitchers so they delt from depth.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, out of all the yankee sluggers, he scared me the most. Just how quick his bat was, and whenever he used to swing it looked like he'd cause a vortex. I mean yeah he's getting old, and he's a selfish player, but he was scary as hell.

[TGov]

I think it's great, considering Boras wanted 14+ millions for like 3 or so yrs...

awesome, awesome... can't wait to see D-Mat pitch, we have a great pitching staff this year... YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

[Beckett95]

Biggest steal of the offseason was this signing

 

He's getting paid less a year than Miguel Batista

[Cityofchampions33]

Well, I think we should all ante up some money and join Theo in the World Series of Poker, so he can use that mean bluff n win the Sox some cold hard cash

[jacksonianmarch]

Raised demands on what?

 

Detroit got a good player man. He's a real threat to other teams as he's got tremendous power and can't be beat by a fastball. The Yankees got three prospects, Sanchez the prize of the bunch. At 13m a season Sheffield is not a burden for a highly competitive team after a good season (Detroit), especially not when players like Lee and Soriano get contracts like they did this year. He's valuable. In that sense I think the deal is fair. Detroit still has a great young core of pitchers so they delt from depth.

 

on Manny. The sox were very surprised that the yankees were able to pry away a top line pitching prospect AND a top 10 closer project for a 39 yr old slugger coming off major injury.

[rician blast]

With all due respect, and please note I'm as excited as anyone:

 

The Sox FO didn't "beat" Boras, they didn't "steal" Matsuzaka, and Epstein doesn't deserve kudos for playing "poker"

 

The posting system, as it is, took away the bulk of Boras' and Matsuzaka's bargaining position. From the Sox perspective, the $51m absolutely is part of the overall cost of acquiring this guy.

 

And from Matsuzaka's perspective what was his alternative? Go back to Seibu and pitch for whatever he was making before....$3m or so? So $8+m a year for a pitcher that has never pitched in the MLB AND has no leverage to talk to other teams probably is not that bad.

 

I'd say the Sox were in a stronger negotiating position then most of us thought. The impressive thing, then, is that they (and I mean THEY, the entire FO, not just Theo, because he does not operate autonomously) did not allow themselves to buy into Boras claims that this kid was worth $12-$15m per year, excluding the $51m bid.

 

I'm psyched, yeah, but I don't view this as a steal..just a nice solid job by the FO.

[SuperManny]

on Manny. The sox were very surprised that the yankees were able to pry away a top line pitching prospect AND a top 10 closer project for a 39 yr old slugger coming off major injury.

 

Don't forget that Sanchez has a long history of injury which is why he slipped to the 31st round in the first place. He really didn't do much until last year but he's still young so his numbers in AAA (mid 3's ERA) were fine. I hadn't heard about the top 10 closer prospect, do you have a link to anythink listing him in the top 10. Honestly though I didn't even know they did top 10 lists for closers since most are converted starting pitchers that don't work out. Good trade for Sheff in the long run but IMO it will hurt the Yankees in 2007. Sheff is an ass though so I can't believe Detroit would trade anything for him.

 

As for Matsuzaka the biggest impact IMO is going to be the fact that his luxury tax hit is going to be less than $9M per year. Thats going to be great for the luxury tax limit throughout the next 6 years. So pumped that the Sox got him. I'm getting his jersey for Christmas once they put it on sale.

[RedSoxRooter]

yikes

Matsuzaka may have had additional incentive. According to rumors that appear to have originated in Japan, word may have reached him that the Lions, who are counting on the enormous cash infusion from the Sox, were considering sending him to the minor leagues if he returned. That would have set back his free agency by another year.

[SuperManny]

yikes

 

People ususally get upset when you risk their $51M I'm guessing.

[riverside sluggers]

Boston's CBS4 has reported the signing is official, a 5pm press conference will be held tomorrow

 

Of course tho thats my f***ing start time at work

 

Breathe another sigh of relief as updated news comes along. Im dead set on buying a D-Mat shirt and wearing it on each day that he starts, just like I did during the days of Pedro & Clemens

[RedSoxRooter]

With all due respect, and please note I'm as excited as anyone:

 

The Sox FO didn't "beat" Boras, they didn't "steal" Matsuzaka, and Epstein doesn't deserve kudos for playing "poker"

 

The posting system, as it is, took away the bulk of Boras' and Matsuzaka's bargaining position. From the Sox perspective, the $51m absolutely is part of the overall cost of acquiring this guy.

 

And from Matsuzaka's perspective what was his alternative? Go back to Seibu and pitch for whatever he was making before....$3m or so? So $8+m a year for a pitcher that has never pitched in the MLB AND has no leverage to talk to other teams probably is not that bad.

 

I'd say the Sox were in a stronger negotiating position then most of us thought. The impressive thing, then, is that they (and I mean THEY, the entire FO, not just Theo, because he does not operate autonomously) did not allow themselves to buy into Boras claims that this kid was worth $12-$15m per year, excluding the $51m bid.

 

I'm psyched, yeah, but I don't view this as a steal..just a nice solid job by the FO.

 

You do have to give the Sox FO some credit here. Boras wanted 'over 100 million' in salary for the guy and the Sox got him for 52 million. The posting fee? It's as simple as this. They posted 51 milliion so that they were the only team negotiating for him. They basically posted that money so that the other 29 teams couldn't bid against them for his services. If it was a bidding war with another team - any other team - the signing price would be much more than 52 million especially in todays market. Waaaaaay more.

[RedSoxRooter]

People ususally get upset when you risk their $51M I'm guessing.

 

I just hope he's cool with being in Boston.

[example1]

With all due respect, and please note I'm as excited as anyone:

 

The Sox FO didn't "beat" Boras, they didn't "steal" Matsuzaka, and Epstein doesn't deserve kudos for playing "poker"

 

They beat the "system" which, this time, had Boras standing in the way.

 

 

The posting system, as it is, took away the bulk of Boras' and Matsuzaka's bargaining position. From the Sox perspective, the $51m absolutely is part of the overall cost of acquiring this guy.

 

Agreed.

 

And from Matsuzaka's perspective what was his alternative? Go back to Seibu and pitch for whatever he was making before....$3m or so? So $8+m a year for a pitcher that has never pitched in the MLB AND has no leverage to talk to other teams probably is not that bad.

 

Nobody thought it was possible to pay someone who could be the best pitcher in baseball only 8 mill a season in this market.

 

I'm psyched, yeah, but I don't view this as a steal..just a nice solid job by the FO.

 

 

A VERY nice job. They didn't blink as time went down, they were assertive but polite AND they were smart enough to make the bid in the first place.

 

So, between the posting fee and salary we're paying a little over 17ma season for a guy who is a tremendously polished professional pitcher. We'll see how good he is, but he's around for his entire prime.

 

I've watched everything this guy has on the internet (I think). He's very, very good. I haven't seen a pitcher with as many + pitches in a long, long time. I think he'll do very well and will be the #2 pitcher this year. His salary (not counting the posting) IS a steal, and everyone is at least neutral on the deal. Yes its a lot of money, but nearly everyone was doubting that the sox would get more than 3 years. They got 6.

 

They blew every other team out of the water and they signed him to the contract that they wanted. A deal like this is the only way such a high bid could work and they estimated the amount he would accept, his desire to come to the states and Boras's inability to get him back to Japan. They did this all under the radar without anything coming out, leaving people to guess that they bid 38m only hours before it was announced. I think they do deserve kudos for playing poker if you look at the entire process. This FO can woo player damn well.

 

The same day that Lugo has a press conference the FO is flying back on its private jet to get matsuzaka to a physical. This team has added 4 impact (i.e., they will be important) players in Drew, Lugo, Okajima and Matsuzaka.

[jacksonianmarch]

Don't forget that Sanchez has a long history of injury which is why he slipped to the 31st round in the first place. He really didn't do much until last year but he's still young so his numbers in AAA (mid 3's ERA) were fine. I hadn't heard about the top 10 closer prospect, do you have a link to anythink listing him in the top 10. Honestly though I didn't even know they did top 10 lists for closers since most are converted starting pitchers that don't work out. Good trade for Sheff in the long run but IMO it will hurt the Yankees in 2007. Sheff is an ass though so I can't believe Detroit would trade anything for him.

 

As for Matsuzaka the biggest impact IMO is going to be the fact that his luxury tax hit is going to be less than $9M per year. Thats going to be great for the luxury tax limit throughout the next 6 years. So pumped that the Sox got him. I'm getting his jersey for Christmas once they put it on sale.

 

Sanchez doesnt have a LONG history of injury. His injury history was last season, what amounted to a sore elbow which has since subsided. He will be 100% ready for ST. Whelan was the #10 prospect in the Tigers organization last season, that is what I meant. He is a top 10 prospect who happens to be a closer, and Gammons loves him. As it is, the yankees added likely their #3 prospect (behind Hughes and Tabata) in Sanchez and likely their #8 prospect (up from 10 now that Garcia and Melancon are on the TJ shelf) in a trade for a malcontent 39 yr old power hitter coming off a serious wrist injury.

 

That is apparently what the sox were looking for early on. Two top 10 prospects. Once the yankees got that for Sheff, who has much less worth than Manny, they upped the ante and nobody budged. So you can thank Cashman for the sox not settling for less.

[example1]

Sanchez doesnt have a LONG history of injury. His injury history was last season, what amounted to a sore elbow which has since subsided. He will be 100% ready for ST. Whelan was the #10 prospect in the Tigers organization last season, that is what I meant. He is a top 10 prospect who happens to be a closer, and Gammons loves him. As it is, the yankees added likely their #3 prospect (behind Hughes and Tabata) in Sanchez and likely their #8 prospect (up from 10 now that Garcia and Melancon are on the TJ shelf) in a trade for a malcontent 39 yr old power hitter coming off a serious wrist injury.

 

That is apparently what the sox were looking for early on. Two top 10 prospects. Once the yankees got that for Sheff, who has much less worth than Manny, they upped the ante and nobody budged. So you can thank Cashman for the sox not settling for less.

 

BS. The Sox have always wanted a lot for Manny. Its not new that they would want top prospects and Gary Sheffield being traded to the Tigers does not change, in any way, shape, or form the Red Sox ability to judge what other teams were willing to give up. Its not like it was the last night of the winter meetings and LL and JH are sitting in the hotel bar, wondering whether Broxton and Loney are enough for Manny, and Theo was whining that the Yankees got 3 prospects for Sheffield and he HAS to get that much, he absolutely MUST get that much.

 

The Yankees got a nice deal for Sheffield. The same deal dd not exist for the Red Sox. The Red Sox would not have wanted the players the Yankees got enough to get them in exchange for Manny. Manny's a better and younger player. If they don't naturally ask for more than the Sheffield deal (with or without knowledge of the Sheffield deal) then they're stupid.

[jacksonianmarch]

BS. The Sox have always wanted a lot for Manny. Its not new that they would want top prospects and Gary Sheffield being traded to the Tigers does not change, in any way, shape, or form the Red Sox ability to judge what other teams were willing to give up. Its not like it was the last night of the winter meetings and LL and JH are sitting in the hotel bar, wondering whether Broxton and Loney are enough for Manny, and Theo was whining that the Yankees got 3 prospects for Sheffield and he HAS to get that much, he absolutely MUST get that much.

 

The Yankees got a nice deal for Sheffield. The same deal dd not exist for the Red Sox. The Red Sox would not have wanted the players the Yankees got enough to get them in exchange for Manny. Manny's a better and younger player. If they don't naturally ask for more than the Sheffield deal (with or without knowledge of the Sheffield deal) then they're stupid.

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12102006/sports/sheff_deal_drove_up_sox_price_for_manny_sports_joel_sherman.htm

[example1]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12102006/sports/sheff_deal_drove_up_sox_price_for_manny_sports_joel_sherman.htm

 

They used it as an argument, but I don't think it changed their mind about whether or not they were going to trade him given what they were offered. They KNEW they should get more than the Yankees got. He's better and younger than Sheffield and he's not coming off an injury. No matter WHAT the Yankees got that would have been the case.

[jacksonianmarch]

I know. What I am saying is that the red sox may have been looking for something similar to what the yankees got. Hence, once they saw what the Tigers gave up for a guy who is not nearly worth as much as Manny, the price escalated. If you told the red sox 3 months ago that Manny could be dealt for a top pitching prospect and a top closer prospect, he'd probably have said, one more prospect and where do I sign. Once the yankee deal went down, he was talking about MLB ready talent only.

[riverside sluggers]

rotoworld

 

The Red Sox are expected to announce the signing of Daisuke Matsuzaka at a 5 p.m. news conference Thursday.

 

It will be a six-year, $52 million contract. According to the AP, Matsuzaka gets a $2 million signing bonus, $6 million next year, $8 million in each of the following three seasons and $10 million in each of the final two years. Agent Scott Boras said the final negotiating session began at about 5:30 a.m. PST Wednesday, and within 90 minutes he was confident there would be an agreement. "[Red Sox GM Theo Epstein] and I were still negotiating terms when we arrived," Boras added. "We finalized the deal when he arrived in Boston."

 

Very nice, he's owed just $6 million this season. That puts the updated payroll to $136 million. The cap I believe is $145 or 148 million