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Posted

Ok, I know he got you your first World Series in 86 years, blah blah blah...congrats.

 

However, he has not done well recently. He traded away Ramirez, the ROY in the NL, and Sanchez for Beckett, which has been a disaster so far. He let Damon walk [i don't buy the "resigned" crap, he never really left the Sox, and everyone really knows it]. He botched the Abreu deal, and when asked about it, he turns around and says "We can't spend like the Yankees". Abreu cost 23 million for one season and two months, and then he goes and posts 51 million for Matsuzaka. I don't believe that the Sox's financial status has changed that much from July 31st until today. In other words, he is full of s*** [or ownership is making him say things that are full of s***]. He is going to sign Drew for more money than Damon got, and he is more of a health risk than Damon, and probably for the same amount of years. Drew opted out of 3 years, 33 million with the Dodgers, so you know he will make more than that. He traded away Meredith, who right now would be the best pitcher in your pen and probable closer for Mirabelli, who hit a whopping .191. Arroyo was one of the best pitchers in the NL for half the season, would have been your second best pitcher after Schilling for WMP, who is a waste of space.

 

Now, this isn't a knock on the Sox, just Theo. I give him 2004. Kudos for that. However, in 2006, this guy has been a disaster. What are your thoughts?

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Posted
Ok, I know he got you your first World Series in 86 years, blah blah blah...congrats.

 

However, he has not done well recently. He traded away Ramirez, the ROY in the NL, and Sanchez for Beckett, which has been a disaster so far. He let Damon walk [i don't buy the "resigned" crap, he never really left the Sox, and everyone really knows it]. He botched the Abreu deal, and when asked about it, he turns around and says "We can't spend like the Yankees". Abreu cost 23 million for one season and two months, and then he goes and posts 51 million for Matsuzaka. I don't believe that the Sox's financial status has changed that much from July 31st until today. In other words, he is full of s*** [or ownership is making him say things that are full of s***]. He is going to sign Drew for more money than Damon got, and he is more of a health risk than Damon, and probably for the same amount of years. Drew opted out of 3 years, 33 million with the Dodgers, so you know he will make more than that. He traded away Meredith, who right now would be the best pitcher in your pen and probable closer for Mirabelli, who hit a whopping .191. Arroyo was one of the best pitchers in the NL for half the season, would have been your second best pitcher after Schilling for WMP, who is a waste of space.

 

Now, this isn't a knock on the Sox, just Theo. I give him 2004. Kudos for that. However, in 2006, this guy has been a disaster. What are your thoughts?

 

 

What are your thoughts on Brian Cashman?

Posted
Ok, I know he got you your first World Series in 86 years, blah blah blah...congrats.

 

Now, this isn't a knock on the Sox, just Theo. I give him 2004. Kudos for that. However, in 2006, this guy has been a disaster. What are your thoughts?

 

I guess my thoughts are that it is nearly 2007, the 2006 season has been over for a few months. It appears that the Sox have the best chance to get the best pitcher on the market and they are willing to pay for a player who will provide nice protection for Manny and will play a solid RF.

 

The Sox weren't willing to give up what the Phillies were asking for in terms of prospects to get an expensive player like Abreu to play RF when they also had Nixon and WMP under contract, and especially when the gaping hole in the team was pitching.

 

They could very likely be trading Manny Ramirez with the intent of getting back prospects to flip for someone really solid. I think people will give them more credit after this offseason and the team should be pretty solid next year and well prepared for the future for sure.

Posted
Disaster? Thats far fetched and very subjective. Good luck to your cause though.

 

I guess you would call the Beckett deal a good one. Umm...how about giving us Manny for Melky? Yes, so far, it's been a disaster of a deal.

 

What are your thoughts on Brian Cashman?

Well, considering all things he could have done better. Getting Abreu and Lidle was a steal. Not acquiring a starter is a big negative, though. That's all he really did, but this thread isn't about Cashman. It's about Theo.

I guess my thoughts are that it is nearly 2007, the 2006 season has been over for a few months. It appears that the Sox have the best chance to get the best pitcher on the market and they are willing to pay for a player who will provide nice protection for Manny and will play a solid RF.

 

The Sox weren't willing to give up what the Phillies were asking for in terms of prospects to get an expensive player like Abreu to play RF when they also had Nixon and WMP under contract, and especially when the gaping hole in the team was pitching.

 

They could very likely be trading Manny Ramirez with the intent of getting back prospects to flip for someone really solid. I think people will give them more credit after this offseason and the team should be pretty solid next year and well prepared for the future for sure.

 

Well, they would have been better off trading spare parts, like the Yankees did, for Abreu. It's obvious the Sox had the money, and pulled the wool over your fan base for years, saying you can't spend, which is horseshit. Abreu is a better, more durable player than Drew, and would have cost about the same as Drew will [more money, less years]. Nixon and WMP have disappointed, due to injury and lack of skills, respectively.

 

My question is why do you guys credit him so much? I think he has been a very average GM overall, with a horrible 2006 [and a great 2004, I give credit where it is due]. Sorry, in New York, we are much more of a "what have you done for me lately" kind of crowd, and do you believe that he would still have a job in New York if he made the mistakes that Theo did, trading say Cano and Melky for Beckett? I mean come on, give the guy credit for 2004, but if he just left your team alone and signed Damon, you may have won the World Series last year. I just don't see what you love about this guy.

Posted

Bump

 

Yet another tuseless thread, started by GOM, with main goal being to spark up again a Red Sox vs Yankees fight...

 

Who cares about the GMs that run the teams. Each GM is credited with bad moves along with good moves. Concerning the Beckett trade (ludicrous IMO Yankee fans are predicting Beckett will have a 5 ERA rest of his career)... this happened 3 weeks after Theo went on his journey to "find himself". He was kept in the loop oh sure, but the main people who made this trade were John Henry, Larry Lucchino, and the 2 junior GMs

 

Again... Anibal Sanchez wouldnt have come close to the same type of success in the tough hitting AL East. The Sox traded him because they did not want to part with their top pitching prospect Jon Lester. Sounds like a common decision to me

Posted
Bump

(ludicrous IMO Yankee fans are predicting Beckett will have a 5 ERA rest of his career)...

 

Again... Anibal Sanchez wouldnt have come close to the same type of success in the tough hitting AL East. The Sox traded him because they did not want to part with their top pitching prospect Jon Lester. Sounds like a common decision to me

 

two rather contradictory points there. You are expecting people to believe that Beckett wont continue how horrible he was last yr and you expect Anibal to tank if he was in the ALE. Glass half full eh? Or is it just sour grapes.

 

Hanley for Beckett right now is a terrible trade for the red sox, not to mention the solid Sanchez and the two fireballers they gave up as well. Dont give me the whole Mike Lowell was part of it talk, as he makes too much for his production and has been on the block since the first day they got him.

Posted

Theo didn't by any means botch the Abreu trade. Last season if we got him we wouldv'e gone over the luxury tax limit, which has now been significantly raised some, giving us more financial flexibility.

Also, yes I agree, the Beckett trade has ended up horribley, but until last season Hanley was looking like one of those underacheiving but wicked talented players. Sanchez I agree with riverside however, might not have had the same success as he had in the NLE if he were to be brought up in the ALE. So the jurys still out on this trade.

Posted
Ok, I know he got you your first World Series in 86 years, blah blah blah...congrats.

 

 

I disagree in giving Theo sole credit for 2004. He may have helped, and obviously the Cabrera in, Nomar out situation was, in retrospect, a great move, but HE did not single-handedly build this team...I say Lucchino gets equal credit for the moves made around that time...i.e. Schilling, etc. I don't think Theo had autonomy.

 

Meanwhile some credit also must go to Dan Duquette for bringing in some of the core of players.

Posted
two rather contradictory points there. You are expecting people to believe that Beckett wont continue how horrible he was last yr and you expect Anibal to tank if he was in the ALE. Glass half full eh? Or is it just sour grapes.

 

Hanley for Beckett right now is a terrible trade for the red sox, not to mention the solid Sanchez and the two fireballers they gave up as well. Dont give me the whole Mike Lowell was part of it talk, as he makes too much for his production and has been on the block since the first day they got him.

 

Where did I say anything about Mike Lowell? He was a salary dump, nothing more, the Sox had to take him to get Beckett. Anyways, I cant state an opinion that Beckett will not always have a 5+ ERA for Boston? I apologize sir.

 

Where did I say I thought Sanchez would tank for Boston? I said he would not come close to the same success he had for Florida. Is that also wrong for me to suggest sir? He had a 2.87 ERA and threw a no hitter in the National League.

Posted

I don't like Theo.

 

I am very frustrated with Theo and the Front Office. I don't agree that the Beckett trade reflects poorly on Theo. It was a good trade at the time. Beckett was becoming a young Ace and we needed pitching. We got a 25 year old ACE for a high prospect and mid-low level prospect. We just turned up on the s*** end of the stick last year with Beckett.

 

However, I do believe Theo has made countless mistakes in the last 2 seasons, along with the Front Office. He himself admitted that trading off Bard and Meredith for Mirabelli was a terrible trade. Not making any moves at the trading deadline last season official killed our chances for the playoffs.

 

Worst, however, has been the sox problems with keeping players. We have gone through more SS in the last 3 seasons than most teams go through in 10 season. We traded Nomar and used Pokey Reese for a bit, had Cabrera for a whole 58 games, released him and signed Renteria for a whole year, traded him and picked up Gonzalez for ... a year, let him go and now, guess what, we have to get the last "good" SS on the market in Lugo. Good job FO. Way to hold on to players.

 

This offseason has been especially annoying. We have spend $51 million just to talk to Matsuzaka who might comand up to $14 million a season. I am fine with this if he is truely as good as the scouts say. However, the sox philosophy in spending money seems to change on a daily basis. Theo says he cares more about balancing the future with the present and not overpaying. Right... so trade off prospects for garbage like Mirabelli. Nice planning for the future.

 

The FO, not Theo, though was the reason why Damon wasn't resigned. They release him and now are looking to sign JD Drew for just as much as it would have cost to keep Damon. Great. Damon has more speed than Drew, a better contact hitter, similar OBP, little less power, better Defense, far better Durability, and a great personality in the locker room. Good job. I know the FA market is going crazy this year, but its only been one year, come on!

 

I am extremely uneasy right now. So far we need a SS, 2B, RF, RP, CP, and SP. And thats just what we actually NEED, not just what should be upgraded. So far, all we have done is released players and gone after Matsuzaka. We have one viable option on the Market left for SS, Drew for RF as all the big bats were signed already. 2B we really only could use Loretta or Durham. RP is been gobbled up. Speier was the best FA and was signed, Baiz, etc. SP were going after Matsuzaka, great, but we could still use another arm as we saw last season you can never have to much pitching. And we still need a closer with Paps moving into the rotation.

 

On top of that, the FO is trying to trade Manny. Why in gods name would you trade one of the best hitters in baseball and break up the 3-4 punch of Ortiz and Manny? Manny is an almost garenteed 40+ HR, .300+ BA, 100+ RBI, and he is clutch (second highest BA w/ RISP over the last 4 years, higher than even Pujols). There really is no trade that could be made were we could get his full value back. Any trade involving Ramirez is bad. You better have Pujols in the 4 spot if not Manny. Otherwise, your making a mistake.

Posted
Yes, but I don't think Pedroia is ready. He hit under .200 in 89 at-bats with little power, but I worry more about his defense. I think he needs more work. If our lineup wasn't looking as weak as it is right now (plus all the manny trade talks) I wouldn't be as worried, but our Defense is going to take a dip (gonzo gone, nixon gone) along with our offense. Durham or Loretta would make a much better fit for better defense and much better offensive contributions.
Posted
Worst. Thread. Ever.
Well why don't you go point by point debunking everything that Gom has brought up? If his assertions are so innane, it should be relatively easy to prove why he's wrong. The Comic Book Guy copout isn't helping your cause at all.
Posted
Yes' date=' but I don't think Pedroia is ready. He hit under .200 in 89 games with little power, but I worry more about his defense. I think he needs more work. If our lineup wasn't looking as weak as it is right now (plus all the manny trade talks) I wouldn't be as worried, but our Defense is going to take a dip (gonzo gone, nixon gone) along with our offense. Durham or Loretta would make a much better fit for better defense and much better offensive contributions.[/quote']

 

First its 89 ABs, not 89 games. Pedroia played in 31 games at the end of the season. What hurt his average was a torrid 4 for 41 start as he was trying to shed the "actually in the majors vibe" and regain his stroke he had after a long season down in Pawtucket

 

Bad start

4 for 41 (.091 avg) 1 Double, 1 RBI, 1 Run, 1 Walk, 4 Ks

 

Game that jump started him (vs Kansas City, 1st major league homerun)

13 for 48 (.271 avg) 3 Doubles, 2 HRs, 6 RBIs, 4 Runs, 6 Walks, 3 Ks

 

Its all about patience really... Loretta and especially Ray Durham (23 HRs, 97 RBIs) will be looking for multi-year contracts. The best thing would be not for Pedroia to spend that much time shuttling back and fort between Triple A and Boston.

Posted
Well, who ever started it assumes that sox fans like Theo, otherwise, I don't see whats wrong with it. There are a lot of people who are upset with Theo lately. Why not start a thread to discuss if you like Theo and why/why not.
Posted

im not a theo guy

never was and it will take an act of God to deliver me into his camp

 

i do find it ironic that this thread was started by a yankee fan

the team that spent 40,000,000.00 on carl pavano

the team that spent 21,000,000.00 on jarett wright

the team that spent 51,000,000.00 on randy johnson(beckett is in his 20s with similar#s)

the team that spent 100,000,000.00 on jason giambi

the team that spent 80,000,000.00 on mike mussina

the team that traded alphonso soriano for.......mabeline alex rodriguez

 

i wont mention the steve karsays of the world

 

dont you have your own internal issues to work on ??

 

if you think theo is calling the shots without answering to someone before hand youre nuts

Posted
Well why don't you go point by point debunking everything that Gom has brought up? If his assertions are so innane' date=' it should be relatively easy to prove why he's wrong. The Comic Book Guy copout isn't helping your cause at all.[/quote']

 

ok im gonna say that if i can go point for point with gom you can say that this thread is worthless.

Ok, I know he got you your first World Series in 86 years, blah blah blah...congrats.

 

there is no way you can credit the whole thing to theo as already pointed out somewhere he obviously made some great moves but i dont think anyone credits him with the whole thing.

 

However, he has not done well recently. He traded away Ramirez, the ROY in the NL, and Sanchez for Beckett, which has been a disaster so far.

letting go of hanley may have been a mistake ill give you that but there is no way sanchez does what he did in the ALE and someone brought up that point which you reffered to as hippocracy. which now means you think that annibel sanchez is the same quality pitcher as josh beckett. if we are hippocrats your retarded. honestly tell me you would prefer sanchez rather than beckett dont factor ramirez into it at all, sanchez or beckett, and then ill give you that point too.

 

He let Damon walk [i don't buy the "resigned" crap, he never really left the Sox, and everyone really knows it].

this one ill give you however i disagree with the fact that he "let" him walk i dont know what may have happened there but we were obviously a less productive offensive team without damon leading off and if anyone disputes that i would like to hear their argument

 

He botched the Abreu deal, and when asked about it, he turns around and says "We can't spend like the Yankees". Abreu cost 23 million for one season and two months, and then he goes and posts 51 million for Matsuzaka. I don't believe that the Sox's financial status has changed that much from July 31st until today. In other words, he is full of s*** [or ownership is making him say things that are full of s***].

im with you id much rather spend a shitload on abreu for a year and a couple months rather than on a stud pitcher entering his prime. :rolleyes:

 

He is going to sign Drew for more money than Damon got, and he is more of a health risk than Damon, and probably for the same amount of years. Drew opted out of 3 years, 33 million with the Dodgers, so you know he will make more than that.

 

its a different market this year than that of last which is one reason he would sign for more and he plays a position that the redsox desperately need filled, last offseason they had a replacement coming in a deal that was in the works during negotiation with damon for a younger cheaper (dont bring up wily mo please) PROVEN kid.

 

He traded away Meredith, who right now would be the best pitcher in your pen and probable closer for Mirabelli, who hit a whopping .191. Arroyo was one of the best pitchers in the NL for half the season, would have been your second best pitcher after Schilling for WMP, who is a waste of space.

there is no way in hell last offseason theo or anyone else on this god given green earth was thinking that cla merideth would be the future boston redsox closer over craig hansen and again if you tell me that last year this time you were thinking that go ahead and take that point too you can have it. and arroyo didnt just come out of no where this year he went to the NL on a crappy team in a crappy division you say josh beckett isnt any good he was pretty god damn good in the NL if i remember correctly. and i was at that game May first when maribelli got the police escort the place was estatic, i got tickets to wrestlmania and if that gives me half the chills i got when i heard the starting lineup that night it will be more than sufficient, not to mention all the yankee fans around me that night were s***ing themselve when the scoreboard started playing the clip of him running into the park :lol:

 

Now, this isn't a knock on the Sox, just Theo. I give him 2004. Kudos for that. However, in 2006, this guy has been a disaster. What are your thoughts?

did you want this part disproven to or uhh can i just leave that?

Posted
sorry for the accusation' date=' but is Gom Ted Williams as well?[/quote']

 

Yeah can a MOD look in to this? And if so ban both names to end this crap please.

Posted
Well why don't you go point by point debunking everything that Gom has brought up? If his assertions are so innane' date=' it should be relatively easy to prove why he's wrong. The Comic Book Guy copout isn't helping your cause at all.[/quote']

 

You're missing the point - maybe on purpose. This has been hashed and rehashed a million times, on a multitude of boards, and because it's completely subjective it immediately devolves into namecalling as it did here in ONE PAGE. The thread as started by a Yankee fan on a Sox board serves no purpose except the spewing of random bursts of vitriol. We don't need it.

Posted
sorry for the accusation' date=' but is Gom Ted Williams as well?[/quote']

No. Maybe he just understands. Kudos to him. By all means ban me if I use another name. I am GOM, always. Forever. LOL! I don't need to validate my points like others do by signing up with another username. Next...

Cashman would trade for Beckett in a minute if he could. Thats how bad Beckett is..... come on.

No he wouldn't. If he did, I would personally shoot him.

im not a theo guy

never was and it will take an act of God to deliver me into his camp

 

i do find it ironic that this thread was started by a yankee fan

the team that spent 40,000,000.00 on carl pavano

the team that spent 21,000,000.00 on jarett wright

the team that spent 51,000,000.00 on randy johnson(beckett is in his 20s with similar#s)

the team that spent 100,000,000.00 on jason giambi

the team that spent 80,000,000.00 on mike mussina

the team that traded alphonso soriano for.......mabeline alex rodriguez

 

i wont mention the steve karsays of the world

 

dont you have your own internal issues to work on ??

 

if you think theo is calling the shots without answering to someone before hand youre nuts

This is not a thread on Cashman, although I knew someone would bring him up. It's a thread on Theo. I will be more than happy to critique Cashman in another thread. He has made some good moves and some bad ones. Let's try to keep it on Theo, ok? The reason I started on Theo is the perception we have in New York that Theo is some sort of God to you guys. To us, Cashman is just a GM. So I was curious.

letting go of hanley may have been a mistake ill give you that but there is no way sanchez does what he did in the ALE and someone brought up that point which you reffered to as hippocracy. which now means you think that annibel sanchez is the same quality pitcher as josh beckett. if we are hippocrats your retarded. honestly tell me you would prefer sanchez rather than beckett dont factor ramirez into it at all, sanchez or beckett, and then ill give you that point too.

First of all, this isn't meant as a knock on you, but it's difficult to follow your post. Try using punctuation a bit more. Anyways, the above statement is irrelevant. The trade was Beckett and Lowell, who was a salary dump, in exchange for Sanchez and Ramirez. How can you ask me to ask about only one player in the deal when both were instrumental to the Marlins. Also, you took away the better player of the two. Irrelevant.

this one ill give you however i disagree with the fact that he "let" him walk i dont know what may have happened there but we were obviously a less productive offensive team without damon leading off and if anyone disputes that i would like to hear their argument

Thank you. Another reason why I think Theo did a bad job.

im with you id much rather spend a shitload on abreu for a year and a couple months rather than on a stud pitcher entering his prime. :rolleyes:

If he is anything but a stud pitcher, he goofed here. Jury still out on this one, although I think you guys compete, if not make the playoffs with Abreu, simply cause I don't think you would have tanked the five game set, Ramirez would have played seriously, Papelbon would have played period...etc, etc.

its a different market this year than that of last which is one reason he would sign for more and he plays a position that the redsox desperately need filled, last offseason they had a replacement coming in a deal that was in the works during negotiation with damon for a younger cheaper (dont bring up wily mo please) PROVEN kid.

I don't think baseball finances have changed that drastically in one year, and especially since July 31st.

there is no way in hell last offseason theo or anyone else on this god given green earth was thinking that cla merideth would be the future boston redsox closer over craig hansen and again if you tell me that last year this time you were thinking that go ahead and take that point too you can have it. and arroyo didnt just come out of no where this year he went to the NL on a crappy team in a crappy division you say josh beckett isnt any good he was pretty god damn good in the NL if i remember correctly.

Isn't that what a GM is paid to do? To determine who is going to be good and who isn't? What is he being paid for if he can't evaluate talent? Come on kid, you haven't made much sense here. Since the end of 2005 until now, the Red Sox would have been a better team today had he done absolutely nothing. With this, you have to agree.

Posted
You're missing the point - maybe on purpose. This has been hashed and rehashed a million times' date=' on a multitude of boards, and because it's completely subjective it immediately devolves into namecalling as it did here in ONE PAGE. The thread as started by a Yankee fan on a Sox board serves no purpose except the spewing of random bursts of vitriol. We don't need it.[/quote']

 

First of all, it's a discussion board. I will refrain from name-calling, [although I want to, lol]. The fact that it IS subjective can make it for a GOOD discussion. Can it be proven either way? No. The idea is to stir debate, make for interesting posts, and give differing viewpoints a chance to speak.

 

I am a Yankee fan, and I initiate most of my posts for debate. I find that most Sox fans, and you haven't proven this yet, are actually quite knowledgeable and debate topics well. The fact that I am of an opposing team's fan base is irrelevant.

 

I have posted numerous times here that I think Torre is an idiot, that Cashman isn't as good as people in New York think he is. Torre is a calming influence...maybe because he manages like he is comatose.

 

I guess you joined this board because everything about the Sox is GREAT! The players, the management, the food, the beverages, the uniforms, the hot dogs, just GREAT! What a boring board this would be if everyone had the same viewpoint.

 

Anyways, back to the topic. Why does Red Sox nation, as a whole, adore this guy? If my perception is wrong, please enlighten me. If you ask me, his moves this year would be enough to get him fired in most other cities.

Posted
Yeah, by no means is Theo a god, he's gone down in status lately. I do think he's an above average GM. I think he still needs some experience, as he's still pretty young. I hope he stays in Boston for years to come, and ends up being very good. But no, he's not a god.
Posted
Some here do think Epstein is above reproach. Go to the YES Network message boards and you will find that a large number of Yankee fans do the same thing with Cashman. In other words, like I've said numerous times, all fan bases have pretty much equal composition. Diehards, stat-heads, fan-boys, never-happy types, bandwagoners, front-runners, etc, etc. That's why this thread sucks. It was based on a misperception, one that comes from an attitude where one fanbase is different and better than another.
Posted
Some here do think Epstein is above reproach. Go to the YES Network message boards and you will find that a large number of Yankee fans do the same thing with Cashman. In other words' date=' like I've said numerous times, all fan bases have pretty much equal composition. Diehards, stat-heads, fan-boys, never-happy types, bandwagoners, front-runners, etc, etc. That's why this thread sucks. It was based on a misperception, one that comes from an attitude where one fanbase is different and better than another.[/quote']

 

At least you refrained from saying I suck, lol.

 

I'm just curious, because from my experience, not many Yankee fans care one way or the other about Cashman, but most Red Sox fans love Theo. I don't remember saying or implying that we are better [just our team is better,LOL].

 

Do you think he had a bad 2006? If so, does he deserves to keep his job if he has a 2007 like his 2006? Interested in thoughts, opinions. If you don't like the thread, there are a couple thousand others you could participate in.

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