Are the Sox good enough for 2007?

[a700hitter]

it doesnt matter. Sheff can bitch and moan all he wants to' date=' but the fact is, he'll be suspended and lose all his money if he sits out. He wont sit. He'll get traded, he'll be unhappy, but he will mash as hard as he can so he can get another contract. The guy is all about himself, and there is no way he sits out and leaves 13 mil on the table.[/quote']No, if he's unhappy, he'll be a disruptive force in the clubhouse and he' ll go less than 100% on the field. He won't refuse to play or do something that would get him suspended. He's not that stupid.

[jacksonianmarch]

No' date=' if he's unhappy, he'll be a disruptive force in the clubhouse and he' ll go less than 100% on the field. He won't refuse to play or do something that would get him suspended. He's not that stupid.[/quote']

 

What you are failing to realize is that he will be playing for his next contract. If he goes out and underperforms, he will lose a lot of money. He cannot afford to have an off yr, because at his age off yrs are called "decline" and that 7 letter word labels you for good and is death to your value. He'll bring it, I dont doubt it. He'll bitch about it, I dont doubt that either. Someone will lose out on the soriano/lee sweepstakes and make an offer.

[a700hitter]

What you are failing to realize is that he will be playing for his next contract. If he goes out and underperforms' date=' he will lose a lot of money. He cannot afford to have an off yr, because at his age off yrs are called "decline" and that 7 letter word labels you for good and is death to your value. He'll bring it, I dont doubt it. He'll bitch about it, I dont doubt that either. Someone will lose out on the soriano/lee sweepstakes and make an offer.[/quote']He'll show that he can still play, but that doesn't mean its a good acquisition if he's unhappy. If he screws over a team because he's unhappy, but shows he has something keft in the tank another team will sign him the following year. He has never had trouble finding suitors. His problem is that he doesn't like being dictated to. His attitude never cost him a job before and it will not now, because as you point out there aren't enough of legit power guys to go around.

[jacksonianmarch]

his attitude never cost him a job because he was younger and had the numbers. Now he is 39. He must put up big #s if he will get a good contract, and it will be harder for him to do at this age.

[a700hitter]

his attitude never cost him a job because he was younger and had the numbers. Now he is 39. He must put up big #s if he will get a good contract' date=' and it will be harder for him to do at this age.[/quote']There is a lack of power hitting OF s whether they be 29 or 39, so he will get a job if he can still hit. If he hits 35 HrRs this yea, he'll get a job no matter how bad his attitude. There have been plenty of malcontent pricks that get contracts. The list is too long to post.

[seabeachfred]

Here is a question for the Nation. Do you think that next year you will seriously contend [i.e. win] for the Wild Card? Truthfully' date=' I put you guys 6th in the AL right now, after [in no real order'] the Yankees, Tigers, Twins, A's, White Sox.

 

What do you think, and why?

 

GOM, I think you're off your Dome with that ridiculous prediction. The Red Sox have their work cut out for them, but we have the money and the means to strengthen our team for a run for the pennant next year if Theo Epstein plays his cards right and gets the right players for our team. I think John Henry is going to make money available for the right free agents we need, and I think some trades are already in the works. If I were you I'd keep my eyes on the Sheffield and A-Rod sitatiions. Gary is an incendiary bomb ready to go off (again), and A-Rod is so despised by the fans and press, and so disliked by his own teammates that it ought to give plenty to think about without worrying about how we will be doing come April. :D :D

[BSN07]

I hope georgy boy gets stuck with sheff's crying and blubbering this year, the only way it works is however gets him offers a contract right away before he starts fuming when he gets into town. besides that the red sox are not ready for 07, with holes in the rotation, bullpen, 2nd, ss expect some changes in town for next season should be fun to watch.

[Gom]

GOM' date=' I think you're off your Dome with that ridiculous prediction. The Red Sox have their work cut out for them, but we have the money and the means to strengthen our team for a run for the pennant next year if Theo Epstein plays his cards right and gets the right players for our team. I think John Henry is going to make money available for the right free agents we need, and I think some trades are already in the works. If I were you I'd keep my eyes on the Sheffield and A-Rod sitatiions. Gary is an incendiary bomb ready to go off (again), and A-Rod is so despised by the fans and press, and so disliked by his own teammates that it ought to give plenty to think about without worrying about how we will be doing come April. :D :D [/quote']

 

Would you have said my prediction was off my dome if I told you that the Red Sox would be an 86 win team and not even be close to a playoff spot at the beginning of this season?

 

I am actually surprised at the Red Sox decline this year. In fact, I think it is more of an abberation than the trend. I expect the Sox to be better this year, but as it is now, they are looking up at a few teams. My question was if they would contend for the wild card, and how they would go about it. Truthfully, I don't see the Red Sox making up the 11 games they have to in order to win the AL East.

[jacksonianmarch]

The red sox as is are not even in the top 8 in the AL in my opinion. But there is a long way to go in this offseason, and the top team is flawed at best, so they dont have a lot of work to do to climb back in.

[ORS]

Would you have said my prediction was off my dome if I told you that the Red Sox would be an 86 win team and not even be close to a playoff spot at the beginning of this season?.........Truthfully' date=' I don't see the Red Sox making up the 11 games they have to in order to win the AL East.[/quote']

Truthfully, did you see them leading the East last year after the ASG? You are a liar if you say yes.

 

Depending on acquisitions and health, the Sox could very well win the East. Or, if they save coin and people get hurt, they could compete with the D-Rays and O's for the cellar.

 

They have several roster spots to fill to get to 25. Why should anyone try and peg their chances before knowing who those people are?

[jacksonianmarch]

Truthfully, did you see them leading the East last year after the ASG? You are a liar if you say yes.

 

Depending on acquisitions and health, the Sox could very well win the East. Or, if they save coin and people get hurt, they could compete with the D-Rays and O's for the cellar.

 

They have several roster spots to fill to get to 25. Why should anyone try and peg their chances before knowing who those people are?

 

 

agreed. All you have now is who is signed for 07 and that doesnt look very good. Opening day is only 5 months away :thumbdown

[BSN07]

Yes I agree also, we could be a favorite or a joke next year and what scares me a little is that the front office is being so hush hush, I know they won't sign all the big names, besides it doesn't work look at the yankees, yes they get to playoffs but never win, they have no team chemistry and there millionaire baby's who want to be pampered, you need the right mix, so if they only get like one big name i'd be fine with that just aslong as you fill in the other holes with competant people, look at the championship team, we had our stars,goofballs, gamers, you know what I mean it was a good mix, thats what we need again, not every big name free agent like some have worte on hear, out of all the free agents I would make my splash on Soriano, he will be that extra bat we need, plus the free agent market doesn't have the ace we want, look for a trade for a front liner, who? no clue but it would be our best bet. just some thoughts

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes I agree also' date=' we could be a favorite or a joke next year and what scares me a little is that the front office is being so hush hush, I know they won't sign all the big names, besides it doesn't work look at the yankees, yes they get to playoffs but never win, they have no team chemistry and there millionaire baby's who want to be pampered, you need the right mix, so if they only get like one big name i'd be fine with that just aslong as you fill in the other holes with competant people, look at the championship team, we had our stars,goofballs, gamers, you know what I mean it was a good mix, thats what we need again, not every big name free agent like some have worte on hear, out of all the free agents I would make my splash on Soriano, he will be that extra bat we need, plus the free agent market doesn't have the ace we want, look for a trade for a front liner, who? no clue but it would be our best bet. just some thoughts[/quote']

 

see, you miss the point on the yankees. All-star offense and s*** in the rotation and middle relief gets you an early exit. Good pitching shuts down good hitting, and bad pitching can make bag hitting look good. If the yankees toss their huge cash into the pitching ring, that team will be a force. It has nothing to do with attitude, they just got away from what made them a dynasty. A lot of that had to do with George, and now that Cash has seemingly wrestled control over the team from George, he might throw a ton of money into the pitching like he is supposed to. And not second tier s*** like Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano were, but into the top maket guys like Matsu and Zito. Just food for thought, the last time the yankees signed a FA pitcher with any clout was Mike Mussina in 2000 and David Wells in 2001. Most of their debachles were trading (RJ, Vazquez, Weaver, Brown) or signing second tier guys (Pavano and Wright). They passed on the big money guys the past few yrs. Burnett, Millwood last yr and Pedro the yr before are two examples.

[BSN07]

Yes I agree, but just for me personally I like seeing a few new faces from FA, but I also like seeing our young guys haved a shot and not just bring in an all-star for every position, as far as Zito goes if he goes to NYY he's not going to be all that wonderful, the a.l. east is far better then the a.l. west, I really see him going to the mets, he will get the same money from them as he would from NYY but he won't struggle as much in a weaker league. Schmidt is the wild card here if he goes to NYY or BOS, I see no middle ground for him he will probably be really good like schilling when he came over, or if theres any flaws in his game they will get figured out in the a.l. that didn't in the weaker n.l.

[Gom]

I'm not sold on Schmidt. I think what will make the East very tough for the Red Sox is that the Yankees look to put every dollar they have into their pitching. Realize that with the addition of Abreau and the removal of Sheffield, the Yankees don't really lose much offensively. If, and I admit it is a big if, the Yankees stay healthy next season, they may make a push at 1000 runs.

 

It is pretty much a safe bet to admit that the Yankees will land one of the big three of Zito, Matsuzaka, and Schmidt. Couple that with possibly a free agent or two in the pen, and I think that barring injuries, the Sox can pretty much write off winning the East.

 

P.S. On the Sheffield front, CNNSI reports that Cashman already has a trade done for Sheffield, but is waiting it out to see if he can get a better offer. Shall I say "told ya so"? LOL! Here's the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/10/31/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

[kreinbihl34]

That if big IF isn't going to happen. Abreau isn't a Sheffield, he doesn't hit 30 homers a year. Who's at first? That's a good question. Arod might be a great player but maybe New York is getting at him. Also where's the pitching for the Yankees? I expect a great battle again with the Red Sox and Yankees.

[ORS]

I'm not sold on Schmidt. I think what will make the East very tough for the Red Sox is that the Yankees look to put every dollar they have into their pitching. Realize that with the addition of Abreau and the removal of Sheffield, the Yankees don't really lose much offensively. If, and I admit it is a big if, the Yankees stay healthy next season, they may make a push at 1000 runs.

 

It is pretty much a safe bet to admit that the Yankees will land one of the big three of Zito, Matsuzaka, and Schmidt. Couple that with possibly a free agent or two in the pen, and I think that barring injuries, the Sox can pretty much write off winning the East.

 

P.S. On the Sheffield front, CNNSI reports that Cashman already has a trade done for Sheffield, but is waiting it out to see if he can get a better offer. Shall I say "told ya so"? LOL! Here's the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/10/31/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

Yeah, same 1000 runs you were going to score last year.

 

Write of winning the East? Without knowing who goes where? Whatever you need to believe to get through the day, eh?

 

Sure, tell us told ya so without any details. How's that work, act fast and claim victory early? We don't know who the "deal" is for, or even if it's real. Nobody was saying you'd get nothing, just that his value wasn't that high. And, everyone admitted that the return would increase with the Yankees picking up salary. We need the specifics before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

[Gom]

Truthfully' date=' did you see them leading the East last year after the ASG? You are a liar if you say yes.[/quote']

Absolutely I could see it. I didn't want it, or hope it, but I thought it was an even chance, if not even better. In 2005, we finished with the SAME RECORD. Yeah, yeah, Yankees win the division due to the tiebreaker, but there was no significant difference between us. You also had a better crop of rookies going into the season, and I thought Beckett was going to be the new ace of the staff, and the best pitcher in the AL East after Halliday [going into this season, I thought he was better than Wang]. So yes...I could easily see it.

 

Yeah' date=' same 1000 runs you were going to score last year.[/quote']

 

The Yankees, without Gary Sheffield AND Hideki Matsui, scored 930 runs. Their replacements, Melky Cabrera and Bernie Williams, had OPS values of .752 and .768. Matsui and Sheffield had OPS's of .887 and .806. I think if the Yankees did not lose those two players, they ABSOLUTELY would have made a serious run at 1000 runs. On that note, go find a pillow and go back to sleep.

Write of winning the East? Without knowing who goes where? Whatever you need to believe to get through the day' date=' eh?[/quote']

I am of the firm belief that the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox is significant. I also do not believe that the Red Sox will make up the 11 games [or whatever it ended up being] in the off-season. I just don't see the Red Sox signing, for example, Schmidt and Soriano with the Yankees FO sitting on their collective asses. I think both teams will make moves, and for the most part, they will off-set each other. Barring injuries, and with all players playing according to their expected numbers, I don't see the Red Sox winning the East. In fact, I will say that as it stands now, their is a much greater chance of the Blue Jays finishing ahead of the Red Sox [like last year] than of the Red Sox catching the Yankees.

Sure' date=' tell us told ya so without any details. How's that work, act fast and claim victory early? We don't know who the "deal" is for, or even if it's real. Nobody was saying you'd get nothing, just that his value wasn't that high. And, everyone admitted that the return would increase with the Yankees picking up salary. We need the specifics before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.[/quote']

 

I highly doubt that the Yankees will get anyone significant. Not a top-flight player. However, a mid-level player is easily attainable. However, I will be surprised if the Yankees pay out any salary as well. Alfonso Soriano told the Orioles he was looking for Beltran money [7 years, 119 million]. Now, given the fact that it is an opening offer, etc., Sheffield will look like like a very good bargain in comparison. A one year, 13 million rental.

 

I think that everyone here at TalkSox who is a Red Sox fan will be unpleasantly surprised at what the Yankees get for Sheffield. They will get more quality than you guys think.

 

Thank you Theo Epstein. By not even COMPETING for Abreau, we got him for a song. Also, because of Abreau, we can now jettison Sheffield, who has worn out his welcome, and get something back for him, while at the same time keeping him away from Boston, where his swing is tailor-made for Fenway. If it wasn't for you, Mr. Epstein, we would be forced to keep him, with his poor defense, lack of clutch hitting, and constant whining about his contract. The fans of the New York Yankees salute you!

 

[Oh, and thanks for Johnny Damon too! They actually bought it in Boston that Crisp would replace him? :thumbsup: ]

[schillingouttheks]

You spelled Abreu* wrong. Twice.

[Gom]

No names on the back of the uniform. LOL! Everyone keeps telling me, but I still do it. I will leave it misspelled so that you can all laugh at my ignorance.

[schillingouttheks]

It's not the ignorance I laugh at, it's your lack of knowledge about how to spell your own team's RF's last name.

[Gom]

I am shamed. Abreu Abreu Abreu....anyways, he's gone after next year too, too much money. Then I won't care how he spells his name. f*** him. LOL!

[example1]

nobody argued with you that Sheffield wouldn't have a good deal waiting for him someplace. What do you want, a freaking medal? You predicted that Sheffield would get something for the Yankees. Big whoop!

 

For those of you saying that if the Yankees only spent on pitching like they do hitting they would be unbeatable. Tell me, which pitchers over the past 3 years were worth A-Rod or Jeter money? Which ones were even worthy of being paid as the highest pitchers in baseball? Name some...

 

Bartolo Colon? AJ Burnett? Pedro? Who?

 

The Yankees HAVE spent a shitload on pitching, but it is dwarfed by their offensive spending because people tend to spend more on offense than pitching due to the lesser role a pitcher has and, more importantly, the possibility of injuries.

 

Yankees Starters:

RJ 15m, Mussina 19m, Pavano 8m, Wright 8m, Wang .3m. That's 50.3 m

 

Red Sox Starters:

 

Schilling 13m, Clement 10m, Becket 4.3, Wakefeld 4m, Lester .4 m (or so), that's about 30m.

 

The Yanks are paying about 4 million more per-starting rotation pitcher than the second highest paying team in basball. Interesting.

 

My point is that they already DO go after the best available pitcher but those pitchers don't always pan out. Kevin Brown, RJ, Pavano, Wright, they have all had ups and downs despte a lot of nice numbers when they came in.

[Gom]

nobody argued with you that Sheffield wouldn't have a good deal waiting for him someplace. What do you want' date=' a freaking medal? You predicted that Sheffield would get something for the Yankees. Big whoop![/quote']

 

Go back and real the whole thread. This discussion has been going on for a while. ORS and a couple of other Bosox fans feel that the Yankees will not get much, and even if they do, the Yankees will have to eat a significant part of the salary. I disagree. We will know by this Sunday, anyways.

 

For those of you saying that if the Yankees only spent on pitching like they do hitting they would be unbeatable. Tell me, which pitchers over the past 3 years were worth A-Rod or Jeter money? Which ones were even worthy of being paid as the highest pitchers in baseball? Name some...

 

Bartolo Colon? AJ Burnett? Pedro? Who?

 

I wasn't saying the past. I said this off-season. Easy fella...try reading the post first.

The Yankees HAVE spent a shitload on pitching' date=' but it is dwarfed by their offensive spending because people tend to spend more on offense than pitching due to the lesser role a pitcher has and, more importantly, the possibility of injuries. [/Quote']Very true. I am in complete agreement with you here.

 

Yankees Starters:

RJ 15m, Mussina 19m, Pavano 8m, Wright 8m, Wang .3m. That's 50.3 m

 

Red Sox Starters:

 

Schilling 13m, Clement 10m, Becket 4.3, Wakefeld 4m, Lester .4 m (or so), that's about 30m.

 

The Yanks are paying about 4 million more per-starting rotation pitcher than the second highest paying team in basball. Interesting.

 

My point is that they already DO go after the best available pitcher but those pitchers don't always pan out. Kevin Brown, RJ, Pavano, Wright, they have all had ups and downs despte a lot of nice numbers when they came in.

 

This season, Mussina, who will most likely be re-signed, will fall in the 10-11 million range for 2 years. Even assuming the 11 million, and the likely Jaret Wright buyout [it is 4 million], you are looking at shaving 12 million off of the Yankees rotation, with one pitcher to spare [most likely filled with Philip Hughes if the Yankees don't sign a free agent].

 

The gap is 8 million, not 20. I don't see the Sox staying quiet in the rotation this off-season, nor do I see the Yankees doing so either. Also, keep in mind that after NEXT season, RJ's salary comes off, and the next year, so does Pavano.

 

I personally think Zito comes to the Yankees, Schmidt goes to Boston, and Matsuzaka goes to the Mariners. I also think that Jeff Suppan will have a small bidding war going on with the Yankees/Sox, as both teams are starting to put value on playoff experience, at least more so than in the past.

[example1]

How about you guys take Jeff Suppan and we take someone good.

[Gom]

Truth be told, he is better than your 4 or 5 or our 4 and 5. In fact, he may be as good as #2 on the Yankees and #2 on the Sox.

[jsinger121]

Truth be told' date=' he is better than your 4 or 5 or our 4 and 5. In fact, he may be as good as #2 on the Yankees and #2 on the Sox.[/quote']

 

In the AL he is nothing more than a decent 4 or 5. Don't be fooled by what he did in the playoffs. He pitches in an inferior league. He was a flat out joke with the Red Sox in 2 stints in Boston.

[Gom]

Our respective team's pitching stinks. Beckett is terrible, Wakefield is no spring chicken, and Clement, et. al., are just gas on a fire. On the other side, Pavano's a joke, Jaret Wright can't pitch more than 4 innings as a frigging starter, Mussina is getting there like Wakefield, and Randy Johnson, like Beckett, is just plain terrible.

 

Suppan is a 3 or 4, or should be, but on our teams he may be a #2.

[example1]

Our respective team's pitching stinks. Beckett is terrible, Wakefield is no spring chicken, and Clement, et. al., are just gas on a fire. On the other side, Pavano's a joke, Jaret Wright can't pitch more than 4 innings as a frigging starter, Mussina is getting there like Wakefield, and Randy Johnson, like Beckett, is just plain terrible.

 

Suppan is a 3 or 4, or should be, but on our teams he may be a #2.

 

Like I say man, go for it. The sox have had 2 (TWO) shots with Suppan and he blew both times. Could you imagine why we're not jumping into the mosh pit on that one? He may be good but I'd rather the sox try another maybe just for fun, if nothing else. Ted Lilly, who tends to beat the sox with regularity, would be preferable to me.

[BSN07]

Lilly wouldn't be bad for the 4th or 5th spot for a good price, he's pitched in the A.L. East and has had some decent years, he would be a good innings eater and a decent LHP. Just some thoughts