Are the Sox good enough for 2007?

[kreinbihl34]

What about Dunn. We offer Youk and a couple of ok spects in a deal. Then we have a killer 3-5 and maybe even 3-6 if WMP can get going.

[CrespoBlows]

What about Dunn. We offer Youk and a couple of ok spects in a deal. Then we have a killer 3-5 and maybe even 3-6 if WMP can get going.

 

That's not even remotely close to getting a deal done.

[ORS]

The comparison of Youkilis and Hatteberg is a fair one' date=' i also agree that trading Youkilis not in a package isn't going to bring a lot of value back and also that there isn't much in the free agent market when it comes to first baseman or production hitters, unless we are talking about Carlos Lee but his asking price maybe out of what the Sox would be willing to pay, so yes the new first baseman would have to come in a trade. I take Nick Johnson over Youkilis any day, but again he isn't the answer of what the Sox needs.[/quote']

I know Rolen is in LaRussa's doghouse, so he might be on the block. Perhaps StL would be interested in Youk + an arm or OF prospect for Duncan since he's out of position in the OF. Duncan seems to be hitting a wall against good pitching in the postseason, but I like his swing and eye.

[a700hitter]

What about Dunn. We offer Youk and a couple of ok spects in a deal. Then we have a killer 3-5 and maybe even 3-6 if WMP can get going.

It would give us a middle of the order with 600 strikeouts from 3 to 6.

[CrespoBlows]

It would give us a middle of the order with 600 strikeouts from 3 to 6.

 

And could possibly hit 200 HR's.

[kreinbihl34]

Yeah I would say 600 strikeouts would be WAY too much to give up for around 200 hr and 600 rbis. LOL

[Gom]

Why do you guys want to change Lowell so much? He had a great season for you guys. I think that Larussa is going to want more than you guys are offering for Rolen. I know I would.

[ORS]

Why do you guys want to change Lowell so much? He had a great season for you guys. I think that Larussa is going to want more than you guys are offering for Rolen. I know I would.

Good for you. Now try reading what I wrote since I brought his name up. I'm not talking about getting Rolen, and most people are talking about trading Youkilis.

 

I expect more from a guy who gives us all a backhanded compliment about our intelligence in his first post.

[Gom]

I wasn't talking about you. I don't see why you guys want to trade Youkillis that much either. Secondly, what are you going to do with Lowell? Is he a free agent? I don't follow the Red Sox as much as you guys do, obviously.

 

You actually remember my first post? I don't. LOL!

[example1]

I wasn't talking about you. I don't see why you guys want to trade Youkillis that much either. Secondly, what are you going to do with Lowell? Is he a free agent? I don't follow the Red Sox as much as you guys do, obviously.

 

You actually remember my first post? I don't. LOL!

 

Don't worry about ORS. He's extremely bright when it comes to baseball, but he's also a little grumpy at times and scathing. His memory is like a steel trap apparently.

 

Lowell is under contract for next year. The reason I think people speculate about moving youk or Lowell is because, combined, they do not provide even average offensive output from the corner positions. So we need to upgrade in one position or the other. Youkilis can play both positions pretty well and he's cheap. Lowell plays 3rd really well, offensively is about as productive as youkilis, but he costs 9 million a year which is way to much for an over-the-hill, little-power 3B. The sox should upgrade at either 1B or 3B and move Youkilis to the other position.

[Gom]

LOL! ORS doesn't bother me. I've met worse. Actually, I thought ORS was a woman. Only women remember things I did a long time ago that are inconsequential.

 

Is Lowell's contract over after this coming season? If so, why not just live with what you guys have, and fix it next year. Hitting isn't your problem, pitching is. Just like us [Yankees]. If I were running the Sox, I would concentrate on pitching. Plus, wouldn't it be better to keep Youkilis and then get a 1B/3B? The way you guys say it, you would be getting rid of Youkilis and someone for an upgrade, and then the next year have to replace Lowell. Seems like it is self-defeating.

 

It's no different than the Yankees with Abreau. Sure, he did phenomenal last year for the Yankees, but I don't expect him to do that again. I see him like an upgrade to Youkilis in the field and at the plate, but for 17 million, I think its just a wee bit expensive. However, after next year, he is gone.

 

The only nice thing I am seeing from the Yankees standpoint is that their big contracts are slowly starting to dwindle [from a Yankees perspective at least]. Mussina will come back to earth, Abreau's is just a one and half year blip, Jaret Wright is gone this year or next, etc...

 

Now watch, the Yankees go out and sign 2 players this offseason to 87 year deals.

[example1]

LOL! ORS doesn't bother me. I've met worse. Actually, I thought ORS was a woman. Only women remember things I did a long time ago that are inconsequential.

 

Is Lowell's contract over after this coming season? If so, why not just live with what you guys have, and fix it next year. Hitting isn't your problem, pitching is. Just like us [Yankees]. If I were running the Sox, I would concentrate on pitching. Plus, wouldn't it be better to keep Youkilis and then get a 1B/3B? The way you guys say it, you would be getting rid of Youkilis and someone for an upgrade, and then the next year have to replace Lowell. Seems like it is self-defeating.

 

It's no different than the Yankees with Abreau. Sure, he did phenomenal last year for the Yankees, but I don't expect him to do that again. I see him like an upgrade to Youkilis in the field and at the plate, but for 17 million, I think its just a wee bit expensive. However, after next year, he is gone.

 

The only nice thing I am seeing from the Yankees standpoint is that their big contracts are slowly starting to dwindle [from a Yankees perspective at least]. Mussina will come back to earth, Abreau's is just a one and half year blip, Jaret Wright is gone this year or next, etc...

 

Now watch, the Yankees go out and sign 2 players this offseason to 87 year deals.

 

Yeah, I don't think the day of the big contract is over. Pavano is still around. Damon is still around. Jeter makes more money than Manny and Sheffield's near 14m option just got picked up. Abreu was a great pick up and he'll be around next year, especially when some stupid team trades its best players for a year of Sheffield before he retires.

 

I haven't read too many people saying we should move Youkilis and not Lowell. Maybe a few but that's not a popular view. Youkilis is younger, cheaper and will probably have as good a career as Lowell has had. Also, he can play 2 positions well and Lowell can't.

[Gom]

The contracts are still around, but I think the Yankees are done with the 7-10 year deals. Five I feel is the max, and only for players in their prime. At least I hope. It's not the size of the contract that kills us, its the length. I have no issue with 4-5 year deals for the most part.

 

The truth is, Lowell isn't moveable. I know you guys would want to move Lowell, but no one will take him. 9 million a year for Lowell means he will stay with the Red Sox. I can't understand why you trade Youkilis, who has the qualities you described. Why not just live with that offense, which is plenty good enough, and get some pitching instead via free agency?

 

f*** Pavano. Dumb prick. Someone should burn his parents house to the ground. Sorry, I digress when it comes to Pavano.

[example1]

The contracts are still around, but I think the Yankees are done with the 7-10 year deals. Five I feel is the max, and only for players in their prime. At least I hope. It's not the size of the contract that kills us, its the length. I have no issue with 4-5 year deals for the most part.

 

The truth is, Lowell isn't moveable. I know you guys would want to move Lowell, but no one will take him. 9 million a year for Lowell means he will stay with the Red Sox. I can't understand why you trade Youkilis, who has the qualities you described. Why not just live with that offense, which is plenty good enough, and get some pitching instead via free agency?

 

f*** Pavano. Dumb prick. Someone should burn his parents house to the ground. Sorry, I digress when it comes to Pavano.

 

I'm pretty sure they'll try to get pitching via free agency whether or not they have Youkilis. That said I don't see them moving Youkilis as he's a cheap, high OBP, relatively young (pre-prime) player. That's what makes him valuable to others, but the sox need all the help they can get.

 

You can't say they won't be able to move Lowell. The sox have money right now, they don't have talent. I bet they'd be willing to pay 5 million of Lowell's salary to move him for another good player. That's just me, but I'm pretty sure its assumed that they will pay money to move Lowell.

 

they might keep him. If so they'll have a great defense. If they get a top tier starter like Schmidt then they will have really solid pitching with really solid defense and a decent offense.

[Gom]

You can't say they won't be able to move Lowell. The sox have money right now, they don't have talent. I bet they'd be willing to pay 5 million of Lowell's salary to move him for another good player. That's just me, but I'm pretty sure its assumed that they will pay money to move Lowell.

 

they might keep him. If so they'll have a great defense. If they get a top tier starter like Schmidt then they will have really solid pitching with really solid defense and a decent offense.

 

Ok...so they move Lowell. Who plays third? Youkilis? Ok then, who plays first? You aren't going to get much for Lowell period. Other teams aren't that dumb, fellas. Only if you pay the whole guys salary are you going to get someone as good as he is. If that is the case, whats the point?

 

Lowell has no marketability. The only way the Marlins did the Beckett deal was to FORCE you guys to have Lowell. That's the way it works.

 

I really like you guys on this board, unlike some of the other Yankee boards I'm on where those guys wouldn't know a baseball if it hit them on their respective asses. You guys do, and also have a measure of respect for us Yankee fans here. However, from a BASEBALL standpoint, a lot of what you guys are saying about Lowell doesn't make sense. You make a hole to fill that same hole. You aren't getting ample production out of the corner spots, but you get better than average at 2nd base. You get as good production in baseball out of DH and LF. Your hitting isn't bad. Why make a hole, tie up payroll, etc. for a marginal increase at the corner spots? Unless you can sign Lee or Ramirez, it really makes no sense. I hope the Red Sox do what you guys say, cause it will keep you out of the post-season next year. However, if you put ALL of your resources into pitching..well, then I start to worry.

[example1]

Ok...so they move Lowell. Who plays third? Youkilis? Ok then' date=' who plays first? You aren't going to get much for Lowell period. Other teams aren't that dumb, fellas. Only if you pay the whole guys salary are you going to get someone as good as he is. If that is the case, whats the point? [/quote']

 

Ummm, because a reliever who is roughly the caliber of Mike Lowell in the reliever world is worth having too. Nobody said we're trading Mike Lowell for another 3rd baseman.

 

 

Lowell has no marketability. The only way the Marlins did the Beckett deal was to FORCE you guys to have Lowell. That's the way it works.

 

Is it now?

 

Lowell 05: .236 (AVG), .298 (OBP), .360 (SLG), .658 (OPS), 8 HR, 58 RBI

Lowell 06: . 284, .339, .475, .814... 20 HR, 80 RBI

 

Do you think '06 was better or worse than 05? Quite a bit better if you ask me. The Marlins traded him in 05, not 06. He's not worth 9 million, that's for sure, but he's a very solid 3rd base option for some team.

 

I really like you guys on this board, unlike some of the other Yankee boards I'm on where those guys wouldn't know a baseball if it hit them on their respective asses. You guys do, and also have a measure of respect for us Yankee fans here. However,

 

"You've got ass breath, you're kissin' ass too much", The Coup.

 

from a BASEBALL standpoint, a lot of what you guys are saying about Lowell doesn't make sense. You make a hole to fill that same hole. You aren't getting ample production out of the corner spots, but you get better than average at 2nd base.

 

Better than average at 2B is not the same as average at 1st or 3rd in terms of power and production.

 

You get as good production in baseball out of DH and LF. Your hitting isn't bad. Why make a hole, tie up payroll, etc. for a marginal increase at the corner spots? Unless you can sign Lee or Ramirez, it really makes no sense.

 

Our hitting isn't bad but it isn't great.

 

I hope the Red Sox do what you guys say, cause it will keep you out of the post-season next year. However, if you put ALL of your resources into pitching..well, then I start to worry.

 

Again, what the hell do you propose sir know it all? Here's the deal:

 

If the sox move manny then they will have to make a number of moves. They will get something in return for him and that will change the roster in one way or another, nobody knows.

 

If the sox don't move manny then they desperately need a #5 hitter. Where do you propose that #5 hitter hit? Do they get another RF to replace Wily Mo? Do they get another CF to replace Coco? Do they get a #5 hitting SS (not likely)? Do they get another catcher? OR do they get either a 1st or 3rd baseman? They NEED a #5 hitter and WMP strikes out too often to be effective there yet. With Manny on base at a .410 clip you MUST drive the ball behind him. Youkilis, Lowell, Veritek, WMP, Gonzalez, none of them are very solid #5 options against the top AL pitchers so Manny will get walk after walk. When the sox were injured in August Manny had a .500 OBP.

 

So find a spot to put a #5 in without thinking about 1st or 3rd, while playing WMP, Crisp and Manny.

 

Even if they DO trade Manny they'll still need a strong #5 in the lineup. Or they could just not pay attention to offense, as you propose.

 

And when it comes to putting all of their resources into pitching, just who do you see them as being able to get? They spend all of their energy on Matsuzaka, Zito and Schmidt, only to watch Matsuzaka sign for 100m with Seattle, Zito choose to go to Anaheim and Schmidt go to Texas, and then they're an injured, old, expensive team with our 3rd best power hitter producing what the Yankees or Jays or Tigers 6th best hitters produce. For 120m that's not okay.

[riverside sluggers]

Ok...so they move Lowell. Who plays third? Youkilis? Ok then, who plays first? You aren't going to get much for Lowell period. Other teams aren't that dumb, fellas. Only if you pay the whole guys salary are you going to get someone as good as he is. If that is the case, whats the point?

 

Lowell has no marketability. The only way the Marlins did the Beckett deal was to FORCE you guys to have Lowell. That's the way it works.

 

The Sox owed 3 years/$30 million to Edgar Renteria. Coming off a disastrous 30 error season coupled with OK offense, Atlanta called up Boston right away and sent top 3B prospect Andy Marte to Boston.

 

The San Diego Padres is the most viable option, the 2 teams love to be business partners

[ORS]

LOL! ORS doesn't bother me. I've met worse. Actually' date=' I thought ORS was a woman. Only women remember things I did a long time ago that are inconsequential. [/quote']

 

A woman? Bitch, please. I'll bet money you remember when people insult you, and I'm no different.

 

Back on topic: I find it funny that a guy who thinks Sheff coming off a wrist injury and at a salary of $13M has good trade value, but Lowell has none. More of that brilliant homerism on display. Lowell rebounded nicely at the plate and still plays his position well above average defensively. His salary isn't attractive, but, again, most of the speculation has been about trading Youk, who, because of salary, has more trade value.

 

You think that opens a hole in the lineup. Not with what I proposed. I think they should try and package Youk to the Cardinals (if Rolen is still on the outs with LaRussa and gets moved) to try and get Duncan for 1B. Duncan is out of position in the OF.

 

That way, they keep the more expensive, but also better at the plate and in the field Lowell. What do they do after his contract expires next year? Simple, extend/re-sign him if no other options from the farm or FA market look viable.

 

This also leaves plenty of resources to get pitching.

[riverside sluggers]

Also needless to say, GMs know going in that Sheffield doesnt exactly embody clubhouse chemistry

[Gom]

I don't think that Sheffield is a GOOD deal. I just think that the Yankees won't have to eat any salary to move Sheffield. I think that is why the Yankees signed him, only to trade him.

 

I do think that someone will trade for Sheffield, but I think that the Red Sox will have to eat part of that salary.

 

A couple of good points by example1 and ORS, but I think the Red Sox FO will find that Youkilis and Lowell have more value to the Sox than to pretty much every other team.

[riverside sluggers]

So any GM with no common sense would send the Yankees a good player & not ask NY to give them ANY of the salary?? Thats assuming wayy too much

[Gom]

So any GM with no common sense would send the Yankees a good player & not ask NY to give them ANY of the salary?? Thats assuming wayy too much

 

No, no, no...maybe you misunderstand me, or I don't make myself clear. I do not expect the Yankees to get anyone of any true value for Sheffield. Come on, already...but what I do expect is that the Yankees get to dictate where he goes. Boston will not be his destination.

 

As for Sheffield for Lidge, I also want Jessica Alba. I think the Sheffield/Lidge thing has a better chance of happening. Not by much though.

 

The only way the Yankees get Lidge for Sheffield is to eat part of his salary obviously. He is more attractive in a deal than Farnsworth, you must admit.

 

If the Yankees trade him to the Brewers for a keg of beer without having to eat any of his salary, its a good deal.

[riverside sluggers]

My main point is that only a GM without a brain would not ask the Yankees to assume any part of his $13 million

 

About Lidge, Im sure if the Astros were to trade him who is still capable of being his all-star closer self... they would ask for a young player with his best days ahead of him. Not a clubhouse cancer, steroid raged, brink of retirement player who might still be able to hit some out of the park

[jacksonianmarch]

the fact that it is a one yr contract means that teams will not require the yankees to pick up too much. The thing is, the more money that goes one way means the more talent that comes back the other. If I were the yankees, I'd gift wrap sheff with his 13 mil and say, give me a good pitcher.

[ORS]

I doubt anyone listens, though. Anyone interested in Sheff's one year contract would have to be a contender. Why would a "Win Now" team thin out their pitching given the annual importance it demonstrates in the postseason? I still don't see it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I doubt anyone listens' date=' though. Anyone interested in Sheff's one year contract would have to be a contender. Why would a "Win Now" team thin out their pitching given the annual importance it demonstrates in the postseason? I still don't see it.[/quote']

 

a select few teams have a need for hitting over pitching. One of them is anaheim, the other is chicago. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldnt put a Prior for Sheff (injury for dickhead) deal by Cashman, if he swallows the entire contract (and maybe a little more). This is going to be an interesting offseason. There are 2 A level players IMO on the offensive side and 3-4 A level players on the pitching end and that's it. There should be a lot of deals.

[ksushi]

A gold gloving corner guy hitting around .280 with good extra bases like Lowell is going to have a lot of value, especially to NL teams like the dodgers or padres who could use an extra bat.

[americantrotter]

Never underestimate the senior league's need for aging players. Although this World series is extremely odd, and shakes my faith in what i though I understood.. Crap NL team (83 wins) beating a good AL team with good pitching is mind blowing.

[example1]

If the Yankees trade him to the Brewers for a keg of beer without having to eat any of his salary' date=' its a good deal.[/quote']

 

Of course it is. You guys want to get rid of ALL your 'roided out freaks like Sheffield and Giambi.

[BoSox21]

why in the hell are Yankee fans concerned about their team saving money?