July 29th vs Anaheim

[Cocos Disciples]

Oh yeah, and wasn't the play of the game when Rivera threw Papi out in the 1st inning?

[SoxFan25]

a nice win, now, gotta win the series.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Different day......same story.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Does anyone ever get tired of this?

[RoyNHSox]

Does anyone ever get tired of this?

 

I can’t believe that anyone would pitch to him in these situations.

 

Oh yeah, Papi says f*** You to the shift.

[RoyNHSox]

Just noticed that NESN is showing the Buffalo at Pawtucket game right now.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

:ortiz:

[riverside sluggers]

Just noticed that NESN is showing the Buffalo at Pawtucket game right now.

 

Thanks for the info. I only see Pedroia's stats on the screen, rarely get a chance to actually see him play. Excited for this kid

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

yeah thats why im tuning in also

[riverside sluggers]

Lefty David Murphy just rocketed a bll over the left field wall for a 3 run HR. His 7th HR with Pawtucket. Pedroia got on base before him by getting hit by a pitch

 

Murphy will probably make his major league debut when rosters expand on Sept 1

[RoyNHSox]

I didn’t know until tonight that Willie Harris accepted the assignment to Pawtucket.

[jsinger121]

good win by the sox and who else but ortiz could win this when they needed this game

[RoyNHSox]

Per ESPN, Papi now has 11 walk off hits over the past 4 years.

[a700hitter]

Are you talking about the same Theo that has dismantled the 2004 team that should have won at least a couple of Championships by letting the key components of Damon, Pedro and Lowe walk away.

You're basing this on what?

I am basing it on... that it happened. Duh.

[a700hitter]

not trading top prospects away for win now players

 

letting pricey free agents walk

 

That is 2 different issues there, got it?

He wouldn't be in a position of having to trade top prospects to win now if he hadn't let Pedro, Lowe and Damon walk. Get it. He put the Sox in this position. He created these deficiencies.

[a700hitter]

They don't win it last year with Pedro and Lowe. Pedro didn't even pitch after the first week of September, and there's no Wells or Clement if they were kept. Derek wouldn't have made the difference in the White Sox series. Even with Damon, everyone not named Manny or Ortiz struggled mightily in the second half. Oh, and they still didn't have shut-down closer.

I disagree. Clement was useless after he got hit in the head. Keeping Pedro and Lowe would not have precluded getting Wells. Petey was shut down by the Mets because they were out of the running for the Wild Card. He would have stayed in the rotation if they were in the hunt for anything. Finally, we did have a shut down closer. We may not have known what Papelbon was capable of, but the Sox management was showing confidence in Papelbon late in the season in late inning situations albeit not as the closer. Timlin had a very good year, but was not a shut-down closer. That 5 game series turned to Chicago after the Gaffy error and Iguchi Homer. If Pedro pitched game 1, the White Sox might never have developed the confidence that carried them through the '05 post season.

[ORS]

But, Clement was very useful before getting hit in the head. In fact, he was looking like a more than adequate replacement. So, it took a bit of bad fortune to turn him into the bust he has been. I fail to see how Theo should have anticipated that. Besides, the fatal flaw to last years team wasn't SP, it was the BP.

 

There's no way Wells was here if they kept Pedro and Lowe. They signed two FA pitchers that year, not three. If they were going to sign three, they would have signed three regardless of who they kept.

[riverside sluggers]

But, Clement was very useful before getting hit in the head. In fact, he was looking like a more than adequate replacement. So, it took a bit of bad fortune to turn him into the bust he has been. I fail to see how Theo should have anticipated that. Besides, the fatal flaw to last years team wasn't SP, it was the BP.

 

Also didnt help that the Sox offense had tired themselves out by the time the playoffs came around. Case in point bases loaded with no outs against El Duque, well everyone knows the rest

[a700hitter]

But, Clement was very useful before getting hit in the head. In fact, he was looking like a more than adequate replacement. So, it took a bit of bad fortune to turn him into the bust he has been. I fail to see how Theo should have anticipated that. Besides, the fatal flaw to last years team wasn't SP, it was the BP.

 

There's no way Wells was here if they kept Pedro and Lowe. They signed two FA pitchers that year, not three. If they were going to sign three, they would have signed three regardless of who they kept.

No one replaces Pedro, certainly not Mat Clement, even pre-beaning. That acquisition was widely questioned and criticized before he threw a pitch for the Red Sox. He had a long history of underperforming and spitting the bit in big games. Not in anyone's wildest dreams could he ever be anything close to an adequate replacement for even a 40 year old Pedro. As for Wells, he came with a small guaranty and a lot of incentive clauses. They might have let Lowe go and replaced him with Wells. That would have been a fair substitution for one year. And while there were problems with the bullpen in '05, it was compounded by the fact that the starters couldn't get deep in games. There were many games where the starters got torched early for a big crooked number of runs in the first couple of innings and Terry had to leave them in until it was a blowout. A bad rotation can kill a good bullpen (BTW this might be in the process of happening this year). A bad rotation coupled with a bad bullpen is fatal. IMO a good rotation can cover up a lot of deficiencies in a Bull Pen.

[a700hitter]

Also didnt help that the Sox offense had tired themselves out by the time the playoffs came around. Case in point bases loaded with no outs against El Duque, well everyone knows the rest

The offense got burned out because they had to put up so many runs to keep a poor pitching team competitive. Offense in the playoffs usually falls off in the playoffs. Good pitching is a must for playoff success. You can't bludgeon your way to the championship. They let the greatest pitcher in the last 40 years walk away. You only do that if the guy just doesn't want to come back. Pedro never wanted to leave. This FO did n't learn from the Duke's mistake of letting the second greatest pitcher in the last 40 years walk. Also, they made a very poor job of restocking the bullpen. They were defending champions and they went bargain basement for damaged goods such as the perpetually injured Matt mantei and Wade Miller.

[ORS]

No one replaces Pedro, certainly not Mat Clement, even pre-beaning. That acquisition was widely questioned and criticized before he threw a pitch for the Red Sox. He had a long history of underperforming and spitting the bit in big games. Not in anyone's wildest dreams could he ever be anything close to an adequate replacement for even a 40 year old Pedro. As for Wells, he came with a small guaranty and a lot of incentive clauses. They might have let Lowe go and replaced him with Wells. That would have been a fair substitution for one year. And while there were problems with the bullpen in '05, it was compounded by the fact that the starters couldn't get deep in games. There were many games where the starters got torched early for a big crooked number of runs in the first couple of innings and Terry had to leave them in until it was a blowout. A bad rotation can kill a good bullpen (BTW this might be in the process of happening this year). A bad rotation coupled with a bad bullpen is fatal. IMO a good rotation can cover up a lot of deficiencies in a Bull Pen.

Wait, wait. No back peddaling. I'm not letting you use 20/20 hindsight. You were in favor of keeping Lowe. Clement and Wells, despite neither of them coming close to Pedro in the sports pantheon, as a duo were adequate replacements for what Pedro and Lowe gave the team in '04. More importantly, pre-beaning, Clement was pretty much just as valuable as Pedro in '04. Mid-3 ERA, deep outings, and Matt didn't turn into a pumpkin after 100 pitches. I love Petey, but his time of dominating the AL East was coming to an end.

 

Clement does have a history of 2nd half implosions. And, signs that it might be happening were actually there before he got hit. That said, he tradionally had a good success rate of inducing GBs. That was part of his effectiveness. The Crawford liner came off a sinker, and he said he hasn't had confidence throwing that pitch since. I think that psychological aspect cannot be ignored. A pitcher lost the confidence to throw one of his best pitches. It's unfortunate that it happened, but I can't fault the FO for it.

[a700hitter]

Wait, wait. No back peddaling. I'm not letting you use 20/20 hindsight. You were in favor of keeping Lowe. Clement and Wells, despite neither of them coming close to Pedro in the sports pantheon, as a duo were adequate replacements for what Pedro and Lowe gave the team in '04. More importantly, pre-beaning, Clement was pretty much just as valuable as Pedro in '04. Mid-3 ERA, deep outings, and Matt didn't turn into a pumpkin after 100 pitches. I love Petey, but his time of dominating the AL East was coming to an end.

You lost me ORS. Where is the 20-20 hindsight. I never wanted Pedro to go, and I never thought Clement and Wells were a good replacement. I have always been vocal about letting Pedro go, not so much about Lowe. Frankly, I was surprised about how much money he got on his new contract, but he would have been a bargain compared to Cement head. I would have liked to have kept all of the 2004 FA's (Pedro, Lowe, Varitek Cabrera) and Damon (2005), but even I realized that was not feasible. I expected that they would keep 3 or 4 of the 5, but instead they let 4 of 5 walk and they essentially dismantled the 2004 team.

 

Edit: BTW Damon just hit his 12 HR. How is Coco doing? Damon is clearly in the twighlight of a great career.

[ORS]

You backtracked by saying Wells would have been a suitable replacment for Lowe, someone you think they should have kept. It's correct and convenient to say that after the fact.

 

Coco hasn't been the same since his injury, again, an unfortunate turn of events. I guess you must be in on some insider info about the apocalypse, because you act like the years 2007 and beyond don't exist.

[yankeessuck013]

Edit: BTW Damon just hit his 12 HR. How is Coco doing? Damon is clearly in the twighlight of a great career.

 

we knew he would be good this year, and probably next, but after that we had no idea.

[a700hitter]

You backtracked by saying Wells would have been a suitable replacment for Lowe, someone you think they should have kept. It's correct and convenient to say that after the fact.

I was not backtracking. I would have preferred to keep Lowe. It was you who said if we kept Pedro and Lowe there would be no Wells. I was just acknowledging that at least Wells would be a reasonable replacement for Lowe for 1 or 2 years. I was partially agreeing with you. Thank goodness I didn't totally agree with you, because you definitely would not allow that degree of backtracking.

 

Coco hasn't been the same since his injury, again, an unfortunate turn of events.

Coco was never Damon's equal, and only people with Crystal Balls like yourself and Theo know that he will eventually be as good as Damon, but how long will that take-- 3 or 4 years? Gee, that'll be just about the time Coco's contract is up and he'll walk.

I guess you must be in on some insider info about the apocalypse, because you act like the years 2007 and beyond don't exist.

I have no idea what the future will bring, and neither do you, smart alek. That's my point exactly. You have no idea what any of these prospects will become, but we know what we lost. While I have no idea about the future, I do know that the FO sacrificed success in 2005 and they are in the process of sacrificing success in 2006.

[CrespoBlows]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Crisp

 

Crisp was the superior player last year. He's capable of hitting 20 HR's, plus he's 26 years old. Usually, players get better as the advance toward their prime. Just as players get worse as they hit 35.

 

(Sacrificing 2006? We're in 1st place.)

 

Maybe we should have traded Papelbon and Lester for Schmidt. At least he's proven.

[ORS]

I don't claim to be any clairvoyant. I just happen to have history on my side. Players, especially CFs, going into their middle to late 30's have a strong tendency to decline as their body ages. I'm basing my opinion on what has happened to hundreds of other players.

 

Oh, and, Coco was Damon's equivalent offensively last year. He was shaping up to be his equivalent this year since he was unconscious in ST and starting the year. Then he got hurt and hasn't been the same since. f***ing Epstein, he needs to do a better job predicting injuries.

[MANNYHOF24]

If they value Coco so much then how come they are using him as trade bait. Coco did have good numbers last year, in Cleavland, which is not as pressure packed as Boston. Lets not forget how much Damon lived for the spotlight, he was perfect for here. I would have signed Johnny, that being said I think Coco is still suffering from the finger injury and should not be judged for this season. If he struggles like this next year, then the argument could come up again. Also I think O.C was mentioned up there, and I think if Theo could do it over he would have resigned him, over Edgar, I mean he is an offensive upgrade over Gonzo this year, and I think the Defense is basically a wash. I also want to comment on Coco's Fielding, it seems to me he gets horrible reads in center but has the speed to make up for it.

[ORS]

I don't think they should trade Coco. Sometimes, it takes players a little time to get everything going again after a hand injury. Loretta f***ed a ligament up in his thumb twice, and recovered afterwards each time, but it took a good 100 games. At the worst, he's a perfect 4th OF -- he can play all three positions, is a switch hitter, has serious speed on the bases -- and he's cost managable.

[CrespoBlows]

If they value Coco so much then how come they are using him as trade bait. Coco did have good numbers last year, in Cleavland, which is not as pressure packed as Boston. Lets not forget how much Damon lived for the spotlight, he was perfect for here. I would have signed Johnny, that being said I think Coco is still suffering from the finger injury and should not be judged for this season. If he struggles like this next year, then the argument could come up again. Also I think O.C was mentioned up there, and I think if Theo could do it over he would have resigned him, over Edgar, I mean he is an offensive upgrade over Gonzo this year, and I think the Defense is basically a wash. I also want to comment on Coco's Fielding, it seems to me he gets horrible reads in center but has the speed to make up for it.

 

Coco Crisp should be flattered.

 

The Red Sox only wanted Mark Burhele in return.