Theo Epstein: Justly praised or overrated?

[MC Hammer]

More steroid accusations from MC Hammer? SHOCKING!

Oliver Perez threw 98 MPH in 2004. Since his fastball ranges between 89-91 ... peakign at 93. You explain a velocity drop off like that at age 26.

[schillingouttheks]

More steroid accusations from MC Hammer? SHOCKING!

I never accuse anyone of steroids, and Oliver Perez is the only person that I've expressed my opinion on. Like MC said, you don't lose velocity like that, and continue to suck, at his age.

[SCM33]

I never accuse anyone of steroids, and Oliver Perez is the only person that I've expressed my opinion on. Like MC said, you don't lose velocity like that, and continue to suck, at his age.

 

 

Not sure if this is a good comparison, but does anyone remember Carlos Perez? The pitcher for the Expos and Dodgers who looked like he would have a pretty successful career and then all of a sudden forgot how to throw a fastball? I think this happens quite alot with young pitchers. Its not like Oliver Perez was unbelievable, he had a bad season, one good season, and hes back to having bad seasons. Maybe it has nothing to do with steroids and he just wasnt that good to begin with?

[schillingouttheks]

He's 26 years old and he lost almost 10 mph on his fastball in 1-2 years. Your velocity doesn't drop THAT drastically. Especially at 26.

 

I would buy your theory if his velocity wasn't plummeting at his young age.

[MC Hammer]

Not sure if this is a good comparison, but does anyone remember Carlos Perez? The pitcher for the Expos and Dodgers who looked like he would have a pretty successful career and then all of a sudden forgot how to throw a fastball? I think this happens quite alot with young pitchers. Its not like Oliver Perez was unbelievable, he had a bad season, one good season, and hes back to having bad seasons. Maybe it has nothing to do with steroids and he just wasnt that good to begin with?

The guy was the talk of baseball in 04 as the next great pitcher. Everyone compared him to Randy Johnson, and he was right there with him in Ks for quite some time that year. He finished with 239Ks, and a 2.98 ERA. That from a 23 year old. There's no question Oliver Perez was unbelievable.

 

This has nothing to do with being good or bad. It has to do with losing 9 MPH off your fastball.

[ORS]

Oliver Perez threw 98 MPH in 2004. Since his fastball ranges between 89-91 ... peakign at 93. You explain a velocity drop off like that at age 26.

He changed his mechanics to prevent a violent delivery. As soon as the mechanics changed, the velocity went away. Nothing will change the quality of a pitch more than how you deliver it. Velocity isn't about pure strength. You need to be flexible, and you need to utilize efficient motion. It's kind of like a golf swing.

[Mr Crunchy]

well the trade deadline came and went and our upper management decided that this team as is will be the team to go to battle with

 

nixon promptly gets dl'd after swinging and missing

wells competed,then got crushed

wily mo will have the chance to make theo a hero if he can produce like he did last nite on a consistant basis

our pitching staff at #s 4+5 is awful and it may be our down fall

 

from what ive read and heard there wasnt any big names dangled out there so in that regard im happy we didnt do something just for the sake of doing something

 

bottom line

ny got better

we didnt

but neither did chicago detroit minny or the west and in the national league the dodgers and ya,the reds got better too

we all laffed when they traded kearns lopez et al to washington for some bullpen help but all of a sudden they seem to have a pretty decent pen with eddie g the polack and a couple other live arms in there

 

im rooting for the reds to win the nl based on nothing other than being a long long shot

[Beckett95]

Not sure if this is a good comparison, but does anyone remember Carlos Perez? The pitcher for the Expos and Dodgers who looked like he would have a pretty successful career and then all of a sudden forgot how to throw a fastball? I think this happens quite alot with young pitchers. Its not like Oliver Perez was unbelievable, he had a bad season, one good season, and hes back to having bad seasons. Maybe it has nothing to do with steroids and he just wasnt that good to begin with?

 

back in 2004 when he was i think 22 years old, he had an era of 2.98 with 239 K's. Id say thats an unbelievable.

[CrespoBlows]

Perez is still at 91-93 mph. I've never once seen him consistently hit 98 mph, he probably touched it a few times, but he was probably consistently at 94-96 mph. That's about a 3-5 mph drop in the fastball. His release point was lower in 2004. Now he's more over the top. I don't know why the Bucs f***ed with it, but they are the Bucs remember.

[SCM33]

back in 2004 when he was i think 22 years old, he had an era of 2.98 with 239 K's. Id say thats an unbelievable.

 

 

1 good season

3 bad seasons

 

After this season, probability says he is 75% more likely to have a bad season than a good one. He had one good season, and hasnt come remotely close since.

 

Flukes happen.

[MC Hammer]

1 good season

3 bad seasons

 

After this season, probability says he is 75% more likely to have a bad season than a good one. He had one good season, and hasnt come remotely close since.

 

Flukes happen.

IT'S NOT ABOUT A GOOD OR BAD SEASON!

 

It is about losing velocity. How many times are mulitple people going to have to say it before it sinks in?

[NateGrey]

I don't think the sole reason Ortiz was brought in, because Pedro told Epstein to do that. The 2003 Red Sox did not have a quality 1B at the time of the deal, so they brought in Giambi, Millar, and Ortiz. Two of them would fill the 1B/DH holes.

 

I remember hearing that Pedro put in a good word about Ortiz after they( Pedro & Ortiz) met in the DR that winter ..

[rician blast]

bottom line

ny got better

we didnt

 

 

abso-fkn-lutely correct Seano.

 

once again I gotta believe that the FO did what they deemed best for the long-term health od the organization...hey they are in the know not us, right?

 

will say its a little frustrating that, IMO, the most significant move they made relative to pitching (other than Beckett) is getting rid of Arroyo for a 4th or 5th OF. Sure they need Wily Mo now but having Arroyo as a #3 or #4 would have made me a little more comfortable with the Sox chances down the stretch.

[Mr Crunchy]

i had the displeasure of listening to that f***ing **** buckley saturday am when i was driving my daughter to my mothers

 

STEVE

IS THE ARROYO DEAL THE WORST DEAL IN THEOS REIGN

 

how can you say that caller,arroyo hasnt won a game in 6starts

 

STEVE HES A GUY WHO WOULD BE A MAJOR UPGRADE OVER WHAT WE HAVE NOW

 

no caller(then he goes on to again mention he hasnt won in 6starts) he hasnt been effective since early june

 

for the record

his last 3 hes 0-1 with 21.1 ip and an era around 3.50 i think

 

the complicity with the media is endless,the media ballwashing sickens me

theyve sold this small market tighten the belt develop some youngsters ******** to enough people where many fans considered this a rebuilding year as opposed to us being the 3rd favorite to win the world series which is the truth

 

the truth is also the 2 teams that were favored over us are the yanks and chisox

neither of which frighten me

 

im so disappointed we go to battle with jj johnson duke snyder and wells,a man who is fatter drunker and more injured than i am

and i havent walked erect without pain since columbus day 1982

 

i understand that there was a certain amount of reluctant teams that were on the fence

i also understand that the right deal couldve gotten us a roy oswalt

 

instead tonite we got jj johnson going against cc sabathia

the last time i heard johnson pitch??

was against florida on a friday nite and I GOT WHIPLASH while driving he got hit so f***ing hard

 

im just very disappointed on how this turned out

[rician blast]

i had the displeasure of listening to that f***ing **** buckley saturday am when i was driving my daughter to my mothers

 

STEVE

IS THE ARROYO DEAL THE WORST DEAL IN THEOS REIGN

 

how can you say that caller,arroyo hasnt won a game in 6starts

 

STEVE HES A GUY WHO WOULD BE A MAJOR UPGRADE OVER WHAT WE HAVE NOW

 

no caller(then he goes on to again mention he hasnt won in 6starts) he hasnt been effective since early june

 

for the record

his last 3 hes 0-1 with 21.1 ip and an era around 3.50 i think

 

the complicity with the media is endless,the media ballwashing sickens me

theyve sold this small market tighten the belt develop some youngsters ******** to enough people where many fans considered this a rebuilding year as opposed to us being the 3rd favorite to win the world series which is the truth

 

the truth is also the 2 teams that were favored over us are the yanks and chisox

neither of which frighten me

 

im so disappointed we go to battle with jj johnson duke snyder and wells,a man who is fatter drunker and more injured than i am

and i havent walked erect without pain since columbus day 1982

 

i understand that there was a certain amount of reluctant teams that were on the fence

i also understand that the right deal couldve gotten us a roy oswalt

 

instead tonite we got jj johnson going against cc sabathia

the last time i heard johnson pitch??

was against florida on a friday nite and I GOT WHIPLASH while driving he got hit so f***ing hard

 

im just very disappointed on how this turned out

 

very good points...i feel much the same way but I'm giving the FO the benefit of the doubt...and its not easy to do this go around. if its true that names like Oswalt could have been had (depends on for what) my tolerance for this youth movement, which I've been a proponent of, could be diminishing.

[a700hitter]

It's incredible to me that Theo passed on Oswalt. If he turned down Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Owswalt, he was a damn fool. Oswalt would have given the Sox a devastating rotation for a playoff series. The Red Sox would have immediately become the Vegas favorite to win it all. If he was concerned about not having a CF, he should have substituted MDC for Crisp. I'd be thrilled if one of these young pitcher's becomes as good as Oswalt. Why wait around and wait for hopefully one of them to become a stud? Let's face it, only Lester is a starter. A reliever is not worth as much as a stud starter. Lester could be the next Wes Gardner or Jeff Sellers. MDC has had major arm surgery already.

 

I really don't want to hear his excuses, because what they are. He didn't even manage to pick up a 4th or 5th starter. The Yanks picked up an all star OF and a 5th starter as a throw in, and they gave up basically nothing. The Mets were caught by surprise by the Sanchez injury, but Minaya adapted and picked up Hernandez to handle the 8th with Heilman, and he took a flyer on the young lefty only at the cost of Nady. The Dodgers were able to pick up Maddux. Theo couldn't have landed him either? He would have filled the 4th slot very nicely. Almost every other contender made moves to help them in the stretch run, but Theo came up empty and we have to continue to suffer through Johnson and Snyder every 5th day. This ship should start taking on water very quickly. Theo has failed to help this team two years in a row at the deadline. Oh well, maybe Remlinger will sneak through waivers again.

[riverside sluggers]

It's incredible to me that Theo passed on Oswalt. If he turned down Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Owswalt, he was a damn fool. Oswalt would have given the Sox a devastating rotation for a playoff series. The Red Sox would have immediately become the Vegas favorite to win it all. If he was concerned about not having a CF, he should have substituted MDC for Crisp. I'd be thrilled if one of these young pitcher's becomes as good as Oswalt. Why wait around and wait for hopefully one of them to become a stud? Let's face it, only Lester is a starter. A reliever is not worth as much as a stud starter. Lester could be the next Wes Gardner or Jeff Sellers. MDC has had major arm surgery already.

 

I really don't want to hear his excuses, because what they are. He didn't even manage to pick up a 4th or 5th starter. The Yanks picked up an all star OF and a 5th starter as a throw in, and they gave up basically nothing. The Mets were caught by surprise by the Sanchez injury, but Minaya adapted and picked up Hernandez to handle the 8th with Heilman, and he took a flyer on the young lefty only at the cost of Nady. The Dodgers were able to pick up Maddux. Theo couldn't have landed him either? He would have filled the 4th slot very nicely. Almost every other contender made moves to help them in the stretch run, but Theo came up empty and we have to continue to suffer through Johnson and Snyder every 5th day. This ship should start taking on water very quickly. Theo has failed to help this team two years in a row at the deadline. Oh well, maybe Remlinger will sneak through waivers again.

 

Haha you expect Maddux to be good in the AL East at his age? The guy has an ERA close to 7 since May. The National League is where he belongs

 

Yes I was all for Theo trading for Oswalt, but cmon giving up Hansen, Delcarmen and Lester. We still have 3 given reliable pitchers with losses coming every 4th & 5th days. Oh and taking out Hansen & Delcarmen, guess what... Tito would get to rely on Seanez & Tavarez sharing duties for the 7th inning!!!

[TheKilo]

Haha you expect Maddux to be good in the AL East at his age? The guy has an ERA close to 7 since May. The National League is where he belongs

 

Yes I was all for Theo trading for Oswalt, but cmon giving up Hansen, Delcarmen and Lester. We still have 3 given reliable pitchers with losses coming every 4th & 5th days. Oh and taking out Hansen & Delcarmen, guess what... Tito would get to rely on Seanez & Tavarez sharing duties for the 7th inning!!!

 

 

This post does not compute. Too logical.

 

 

/a700hitter

[SCM33]

IT'S NOT ABOUT A GOOD OR BAD SEASON!

 

It is about losing velocity. How many times are mulitple people going to have to say it before it sinks in?

 

Well, considering my reply was not in response to anyhting you said, your INTERNET INTENSITY is a little over the top. In fact, I was in a conversation with Beckett95 about the season he had in 04 (if you read the whole conversation my first post was about how Carlos Perez forgot how to throw a FASTBALL, and the second was about his inconsistent seasons). SOOOOOOOOOOOO my post was relevent to a conversation on this board, which was Perez's 2004 season, and last time I checked the title of this thread was actually about Theo Epstein, not OLIVER PEREZS 27MPH DROP IN FASTBALL VELOCITY.

 

 

 

 

AOL INTENSITY.....CAN YOU FEEL IT?

[Mr Crunchy]

theo f***ed us by doing nothing...nothing

this is the bottom line here on this thread

 

he sent us into battle this week with david wells jj johnson dee snyder and now lester needs to step tonite as we're no longer in 1st place

 

cleveland had been 4-12?? since the break

theyre suddenly the 27 yankees??

no

we suck cock,its official and theo did nothing to make us better

nothing

 

so in 5 years we can look back on this past july knowing we were in 1st place with a chance to win it all and had a pop to get roy oswalt but our gm was hesitant to lose a 4th starter a middle guy and a 4th outfielder

 

some of you younger guys have no idea....

none at all

to win a world series you need to be extremely lucky but you also need front line pitching

lowe schilling martinez as well as a lites out bullpen got us there in 04

we aint close to that in 06

and i dont see how anyone here thinks its getting better in 07

 

this was the year to shoot the sherbert,go for broke,make it happen

but he didnt

instead we watch kc and cleveland waiver wire guys as well as the bloated wells and we pray to hold them under 10 runs so we got a shot

 

s*** in 1 hand

pray in the other

 

see what fills 1st

[riverside sluggers]

tso in 5 years we can look back on this past july knowing we were in 1st place with a chance to win it all and had a pop to get roy oswalt but our gm was hesitant to lose a 4th starter a middle guy and a 4th outfielder

 

?? I do believe that Houston was asking for a package that looked like Lester, Hansen & Delcarmen. Theo was only willing to give up 1 or 2 of those coveted prospects. For Theo's logic, that does show he wants to win if he's offering 2 of them. Yes in the end it had fallen through.

 

Now lets just say if your idea of a trade goes through.. Sox would then have to sacrifice more prospects for relief pitching, another starter since the 4 & 5 slots are still empty (im not completely sold on Wells), oh and another outfielder since Trot is gradually declining and hurting while Kapler is known more for his defense & clubhouse leadership

 

Youre actually already predicting a losing 2007 season? Thats a little bit premature and out there

[Mr Crunchy]

no sir

i think theyll win their share in 07 as well as they did between 67-04

 

but im not interested in fielding a nice team coco

im interested in winning the world series and unfortunetly this team as is probably will not make the playoffs now due to the injuries and the pitching woes

im of the mindset if we go into battle with schill becks oswalt and paplebon we're the odds on favorite to win the whole enchilada

 

you put jj johnson and dee snyder in the middle relief spots with timlin and other scatine

you'll see a lot less of these guys with a solid rotation and guys who can go more than 5ip per start

[a700hitter]

theo f***ed us by doing nothing...nothing

this is the bottom line here on this thread

 

he sent us into battle this week with david wells jj johnson dee snyder and now lester needs to step tonite as we're no longer in 1st place

 

cleveland had been 4-12?? since the break

theyre suddenly the 27 yankees??

no

we suck cock,its official and theo did nothing to make us better

nothing

 

so in 5 years we can look back on this past july knowing we were in 1st place with a chance to win it all and had a pop to get roy oswalt but our gm was hesitant to lose a 4th starter a middle guy and a 4th outfielder

 

some of you younger guys have no idea....

none at all

to win a world series you need to be extremely lucky but you also need front line pitching

lowe schilling martinez as well as a lites out bullpen got us there in 04

we aint close to that in 06

and i dont see how anyone here thinks its getting better in 07

 

this was the year to shoot the sherbert,go for broke,make it happen

but he didnt

instead we watch kc and cleveland waiver wire guys as well as the bloated wells and we pray to hold them under 10 runs so we got a shot

 

s*** in 1 hand

pray in the other

 

see what fills 1st

My sentiments exactly. Theo came out of the trading deadline two years in a row having done nothing to help the current team. We heard the talk about preserving the future for two years in a row. My question for Theo is when will the future be here? Does Theo realize that even when the future is here, he'll probably have to make some moves at the trading deadline to shore up the team for the stretch run and the playoffs? Does he realize that he'll need to trade prospects to make those moves? Theo, ieffectively threw in the towel for this Year. It was a big screw you to the sold out houses for the remainder of the year. When they won in 2004, I thought the FO said that the new ownership was not about winning a single championship but their goal was to win multiple championships. They did not do what it takes for 2006.

[jacksonianmarch]

you really cannot expect to win witn 2 holes in your rotation

[a700hitter]

you really cannot expect to win witn 2 holes in your rotation

Especially if you created the holes.

[jacksonianmarch]

don't think a deal including Lester would help. They needed 2 more starters who could go many innings and keep the team within strikin distance. Lidle would have done the trick. Lieber will still be available on the waiver wire. I have a feeling Wells and Johnson will not be there for long. Wake's return is key.