Verlander/Zumya for Papelbon/Hansen?

[redsoxrules]

On a pitch the gun read at 103 MPH.

 

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

this thread needs to be closed. i watched the tigers game today. granted it was against the royals but the kid was in control. CG 3 hitter, 7k's and only one BB given up. his control is fantastic, he blew batters away.

 

john

 

Nothing like blowing away Kansas City hitters. Deffinitly a great accomplishment. Meanwhile Papelbon continues to blow away everyone he faces.

[CrespoBlows]

We can conclude two things about you.

 

1. You are a homer.

 

2. You have no idea to who Justin Verlander is.

[ahhchon]

Nothing like blowing away Kansas City hitters. Deffinitly a great accomplishment. Meanwhile Papelbon continues to blow away everyone he faces.

 

like i said "granted it was against KC"....

 

did you watch the game though? probably not. when was the last time you actually watched a pitcher you talk about pitch? probably not often, you read the numbers across the line and you think you know a good pitcher from bad pitcher.

 

john

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

like i said "granted it was against KC"....

 

did you watch the game though? probably not. when was the last time you actually watched a pitcher you talk about pitch? probably not often, you read the numbers across the line and you think you know a good pitcher from bad pitcher.

 

john

 

I don't watch every baseball game there is....got other things to do. I also know the difference between a good pitcher and a bad pitcher. I also know the difference between talent and production. I'm fully aware of how Justin Verlander pitches and I'm not saying he isn't going to be an excellent pitcher. In fact he is already the best pitcher on the Detroit Tigers staff (in my opinion). Despite pitching against Minnesota, Seattle, Oakland, Kansas City...he has been fantastic. I am not going to take away from what Jonathan Papelbon has done though. He is the top closer in baseball at the moment (even if he does play for the Red Sox). I've seen both players pitch and I'd gladly take either. Down the road I honestly can't tell you who will be better.....depends how teams adjust to them.

 

As far as Zumaya and Hansen I can't really say cause I have never seen Zumaya pitch.

 

On a side note....with the success Liriano, Verlander, Papelbon, Cain (great game the other day), Loe....why do people still think Jon Lester can't help the Red Sox?? He is supposed to be around the category of those guys yet I still see people talk about him in the same sentence as Cla Meredith. He is not Cla Meredith, won't have the same career, so why are people afraid to use him?

[Papelbon58]

I don't really think you can judge the talent of these guys on the major league level yet. They are all in the stage of newness that confuses hitters. Near the end of the season that trade could be obvious. Right now, I would stick with Papelbon. While Zumaya has nasty stuff and Verlander has been great, you should stick with your guns until it is proven that the others are better.

[jsinger121]

Verlander and Zumaya are no stiffs. They have as much talent as Papelbon if not alittle more.

[rbreg7]

This is a very interesting question. I think I would rather just keep the players where they are. This is simply because that the players seem to be blooming where they are, and who wants to mess with that at this stage in their career?

[JnG]

Clearly you would have to take that deal. Verland and Zumaya are a huge part of Detroit's resurgence this year, alas, there is no chance Detroit would swap two major contributors on their team, one an ace starter in the making, the other a reliever contributing at the Major league level, for two prospects who have comparable upside, but, with the exception of Papelbon's stellar play in the closer role, have yet to prove themselves. Even though Papelbon has been tremendous thus far, Detroit would be looking for a lot more in return than just two relievers with nasty stuff.

[JnG]

Verlander and Zumaya are no stiffs. They have as much talent as Papelbon if not alittle more.

 

That's very debatable. Papelbon has as much upside as Verlander and Hansen as much upside as Zumaya.

[ahhchon]

That's very debatable. Papelbon has as much upside as Verlander and Hansen as much upside as Zumaya.

 

that's right, but the problem is that verlander and zumaya are MUCH closer to that upside than paps or hansen are right now.

 

there is no arguement, verlander is more important than papelbon right now and zumaya is more important than hansen. i love our boys but the facts are the facts.

 

john

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

that's right, but the problem is that verlander and zumaya are MUCH closer to that upside than paps or hansen are right now.

 

there is no arguement, verlander is more important than papelbon right now and zumaya is more important than hansen. i love our boys but the facts are the facts.

 

john

 

True that the facts are facts....but instead of comparing Papelbon to Verlander we could compare him to Zumaya who is also in the bullpen. In that case I'm taking Papelbon hands down over Zumaya. As far as Hansen to Verlander there is no comparison. Even with his upside I think Hansen has a ways to go to reach what Verlander is. Its not out of the question (Hansen does have around the same velocity) but his location, stamina, and experience is not at the same level.

 

.....it seems more fair to compare Papelbon to Zumaya and Lester to Verlander. I still think Jon Lester could be better than Papelbon and put up numbers like Justin Verlander. Right now Verlander means more to Detroit but Lester could be a huge key to the Red Sox rotation later this season.

 

...on a side note...I'm taking Francisco Liriano over all of these young guns.

[ahhchon]

True that the facts are facts....but instead of comparing Papelbon to Verlander we could compare him to Zumaya who is also in the bullpen. In that case I'm taking Papelbon hands down over Zumaya. As far as Hansen to Verlander there is no comparison. Even with his upside I think Hansen has a ways to go to reach what Verlander is. Its not out of the question (Hansen does have around the same velocity) but his location, stamina, and experience is not at the same level.

 

.....it seems more fair to compare Papelbon to Zumaya and Lester to Verlander. I still think Jon Lester could be better than Papelbon and put up numbers like Justin Verlander. Right now Verlander means more to Detroit but Lester could be a huge key to the Red Sox rotation later this season.

 

...on a side note...I'm taking Francisco Liriano over all of these young guns.

 

of course you'de take papelbon, you're a sox fan. my bias wants me to do the same thing. but if i was thinking of the future i'de go with zumaya. the kid is absolutely filthy, i'm not sure if he's reached his ceiling but he is damn good. yeah, papelbon has slightly better numbers (7 er is the biggest difference really, papelbon 1 to his 8) but his k/9 is MUCH higher and he's FOUR years younger. 4 years ago papelbon couldn't crack a AAA roster, let alone a MLB roster.

 

also, we must remember that zumaya is a middle reliever. he's called in, usually to face big bats. it's true that middle relievers usually pitch against better hitters. closers sometimes get it a little easier (obviously not by choice), they happen to land across the bottom of the lineup and that could easily be a 4-5 run difference.

 

honestly, it would be a very difficult decision, but in the end i think i might go with zumaya, for the future, the 4 years is pretty huge. the kid is 22, that's just great.

 

john

 

and yes, i'de take liriano also, i wish i didn't drop him in my money league.. oh well, it was to pick nick johnson off waivers, so far it has been worth it but it still bugs me when i drop good prospects.

[JnG]

 

.....it seems more fair to compare Papelbon to Zumaya and Lester to Verlander. I still think Jon Lester could be better than Papelbon and put up numbers like Justin Verlander.

 

I agree that this is a better comparison, however this is only because both of them are in the role of starter currently. Verlander is a pure power/command pitcher, while lester relies on the heavy movement of his breaking balls to get guys out. Both rack up a fair amount of strikeouts and are tall/athletic, but I felt that this contrast in their styles was an important one to consider.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

of course you'de take papelbon, you're a sox fan. my bias wants me to do the same thing. but if i was thinking of the future i'de go with zumaya. the kid is absolutely filthy, i'm not sure if he's reached his ceiling but he is damn good. yeah, papelbon has slightly better numbers (7 er is the biggest difference really, papelbon 1 to his 8) but his k/9 is MUCH higher and he's FOUR years younger. 4 years ago papelbon couldn't crack a AAA roster, let alone a MLB roster.

 

I saw Zumaya pitch against the Yanks the other night. Certainly he looks good knocking out 4 in a couple innings. He deffinitly has some heat but at the same time his control is not the same as Papelbon's. Being 4 years younger that has a tendency to come around and he will (no doubt) be the Tigers closer of the future (or Rodney).

 

Its not just that I'm a Red Sox fan but I look at Papelbon's splitter and I'm taken back everytime. His splitter is better than any pitch I saw Zumaya throw and its been a while since I saw a closer pound the strike zone like Papelbon. He doesn't walk ANYONE....all he does is throw fastball after fastball with an occassional NASTY splitter. Nobody can hit it because his control is so good. I may be a Red Sox fan but thats still very impressive. Zumaya can hit in the high 90s and thats good but I'm more interested in Paps accuracy and movement.

[Matt]

This trade would be pointless. I think that Verlander and Papelbon are about equal. When it comes down to Hansen vs Zumaya, it's impossible to make an assement. Until Hansen gets a true shot in the majors, I can't make a judgement on who is the better of the two.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

I wouldn't do that. Verlander is really, really good and so is Zumaya, but Zumaya hasn't really harnessed his control yet (4.21 BB/9, not excactly great). Hansen was being considered as a top 10 pick last year, but because of Boras he dropped to us. And Paps, he is just nasty. I think Hansen is better then Zumaya, but Verlander is better then Paps, but I think the difference between Hansen and Zumaya is bigger then the diff. between Paps and Verlander.

 

So :thumbdown

[Cocos Disciples]

well put, sir.

[TheKilo]

I wouldn't do that. Verlander is really, really good and so is Zumaya, but Zumaya hasn't really harnessed his control yet (4.21 BB/9, not excactly great). Hansen was being considered as a top 10 pick last year, but because of Boras he dropped to us. And Paps, he is just nasty. I think Hansen is better then Zumaya, but Verlander is better then Paps, but I think the difference between Hansen and Zumaya is bigger then the diff. between Paps and Verlander.

 

So :thumbdown

 

 

Dustan**

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

whoops. my b

[TheKilo]

whoops. my b

 

 

 

Haha, just messin with you. Welcome to the board.

[v2freak]

i wouldnt do that...all right let the bashing begin

 

I wouldn't either