The Yankee Thread

[a700hitter]

With regard to the post-season, Jeter is not a choker, but that doesn't make him a clutch post-season performer. His post season stats are at about the same level as his regular season stats (maybe slightly below). IMO a clutch post-season player performs over and above his regular season levels. Someone who plays to the same level in the post-season as he does in the regular season is neither a choker or a clutch player.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

I hope I'm not the only one who can appreciate the irony of these last couple posts.

 

+ eleventy billion

[ORS]

There's a valid argument that no player is clutch but if you believe in a player being clutch' date=' then Jeter definitely fits that description.[/quote']

Again, Jeter's clutchness isn't the issue. You keep turning the argument that way, but I'm not going there. You refuse to accept valid points contrary to your belief, which makes you ignorant. BTW, you are doing a wonderful job proving my point.

[BoSox34]

Again' date=' Jeter's clutchness isn't the issue. You keep turning the argument that way, but I'm not going there. You refuse to accept valid points contrary to your belief, which makes you ignorant. BTW, you are doing a wonderful job proving my point.[/quote']

 

What the hell? I don't have to accept your point, an opinion can't be wrong. I think Jeter is clutch and if you want me to show you the facts, I will. But don't tell me what I can and can't think.

[ORS]

What the hell? I don't have to accept your point' date=' an opinion can't be wrong. I think Jeter is clutch and if you want me to show you the facts, I will. But don't tell me what I can and can't think.[/quote']

It has nothing to do with telling you what to think. It has nothing to do with your opinion. It has everything to do with perceiving everything contrary to your opinion as invalid. Clutch is belief more than anything, IMO. Nobody is going to prove anything, but you refuse to recognize anything different from what you think as valid.

 

Oh yeah, you wouldn't be showing anyone any "facts". You would be showing events. Events are relevant to opportunities. Derek Jeter, despite his successes when it mattered most, has had a boatload of opportunities and his rates in those situations line right up with his career performance. In other words, he a good ball player. Late, early, and postseason, he's good. Does that make him clutch? That's for the individual to decide, but no matter what you believe, the other side isn't worthy of ridicule -- unless they state their case in a completely illogical and inarticulate manner.

[BoSox34]

Let me ask you a question, do you think David Ortiz is clutch?

[ORS]

Let me ask you a question' date=' do you think David Ortiz is clutch?[/quote']

Over the last two-years? Yes. His close & late OPS is like 25-30% higher than his regular OPS during that stretch. That's unbelievable, and most of it is SLG.

 

Over his career? No.

 

EDIT: And, I have no idea if it is sustainable, but I'm leaning toward it not being so. What he's doing is remarkable, and remarkable things don't tend to last.

 

I'm off to bed, 3:30 wake up for work.

[a700hitter]

Let me ask you a question' date=' do you think David Ortiz is clutch?[/quote']There probably isn't one pitcher that wouldn't rather face Jeter than Ortiz in a game-winning situation. That's the best measure of clutch that I could think of.

[Jon_Papelboner]

There probably isn't one pitcher that wouldn't rather face Jeter than Ortiz in a game-winning situation. That's the best measure of clutch that I could think of.

Depends. If all you need is a base hit to win it, I think pitchers would actually fear Jeter more. If you need extra bases or a homer, it's ortiz all the way.

[a700hitter]

Depends. If all you need is a base hit to win it' date=' I think pitchers would actually fear Jeter more. If you need extra bases or a homer, it's ortiz all the way.[/quote']Maybe if the opponent needed a bunt, otherwise you are just full of it.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Maybe if the opponent needed a bunt' date=' otherwise you are just full of it.[/quote']

 

Jeter is more likely to get a basehit than Ortiz is. How can you say that's not true?

[a700hitter]

Jeter is more likely to get a basehit than Ortiz is. How can you say that's not true?

Well if you want to get down to stats, there are many more situations when the winning run is on first, second or at the plate than on 3rd base. Also, the only time a pitcher might possibly want to face Ortiz with the winning run on third would be with 2 outs. With no out or one out, the pitcher would fear Ortiz, because he is more likely to drive the ball far enough to get the runner in.

 

So let's recap. All pitchers would fear Ortiz more than Jeter if the winning run was on any base with less than 2 out; all pitchers would fear facing Ortiz more than Jeter with the winning run on first, second or at the plate with 2 out; and not all pitchers would fear Ortiz more than Jeter if the winning run was on third and 2 outs. In conclusion, Ortiz is more feared than Jeter in clutch situations.

[Jon_Papelboner]

All pitchers would fear jeter more when a basehit ties or drives in the go ahead run. That's all he has going for him, so yes, Ortiz is overall a more clutch hitter. I have no problem conceding that because it's true.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Well if you want to get down to stats, there are many more situations when the winning run is on first, second or at the plate than on 3rd base. Also, the only time a pitcher might possibly want to face Ortiz with the winning run on third would be with 2 outs. With no out or one out, the pitcher would fear Ortiz, because he is more likely to drive the ball far enough to get the runner in.

 

So let's recap. All pitchers would fear Ortiz more than Jeter if the winning run was on any base with less than 2 out; all pitchers would fear facing Ortiz more than Jeter with the winning run on first, second or at the plate with 2 out; and not all pitchers would fear Ortiz more than Jeter if the winning run was on third and 2 outs. In conclusion, Ortiz is more feared than Jeter in clutch situations.

 

 

Most of the time a base hit will score a run from second, especially if there are 2 outs. Jeter is just as dangerous in those situations.

[a700hitter]

Most of the time a base hit will score a run from second' date=' especially if there are 2 outs. Jeter is just as dangerous in those situations.[/quote']Sorry, he's not.

[26 to 6]

This is rich. Not only are you one of the prick Yankee fans that are part of the reason for the dislike of the NYY' date=' but you even lay the blame on everyone else for your behavior. Classic.[/quote']

I only resorted to being a prick in this instance because your fellow Sox fans were being pricks. It took me almost a week to say ANYTHING regarding the division championship.

[26 to 6]

In what way is it getting stupid? You mean the part where Sox fans don't like watching Yankee fans gloat over their season on a Sox board? How dare they. The nerve of those Sox fans to show they actually have a pulse.

We're celebrating our championship in the YAnkee thread. Granted, it is on a Sox board, but I think you guys are being a little ridiculous. How can you not expect us to acknowledge it.

 

We can't make a positive point about the Yankees on this board without you or 700 using the "this is a Sox board" arguement. I mean seriously, let's practice a little tolerance. It's not like we're running al over the board, starting threads, and posting this stuff in the Red Sox forum section. Leave us be, this is the Yankee Thread where it should be ok for us to be proud and appreciate our accomplishments.

 

Yankee fans should be on these boards for the entertainment of the Red Sox fans. They serve a useful purpose as objects of our scorn and abuse. They rarely if ever contribute any useful baseball knowledge. Certainly those contributions are dwarfed by their ball-breaking, stupid, childish posts.

hahaha, you want to talk about contributions of Baseball knowledge?

 

...i'm just gonna walk away from this one

[a700hitter]

We're celebrating our championship in the YAnkee thread. Granted, it is on a Sox board, but I think you guys are being a little ridiculous. How can you not expect us to acknowledge it.

 

We can't make a positive point about the Yankees on this board without you or 700 using the "this is a Sox board" arguement. I mean seriously, let's practice a little tolerance. It's not like we're running al over the board, starting threads, and posting this stuff in the Red Sox forum section. Leave us be, this is the Yankee Thread where it should be ok for us to be proud and appreciate our accomplishments.

 

 

hahaha, you want to talk about contributions of Baseball knowledge?

 

...i'm just gonna walk away from this one

I have forgotten more about this game than you know.

[ORS]

We're celebrating our championship in the YAnkee thread. Granted, it is on a Sox board, but I think you guys are being a little ridiculous. How can you not expect us to acknowledge it.

 

We can't make a positive point about the Yankees on this board without you or 700 using the "this is a Sox board" arguement. I mean seriously, let's practice a little tolerance. It's not like we're running al over the board, starting threads, and posting this stuff in the Red Sox forum section. Leave us be, this is the Yankee Thread where it should be ok for us to be proud and appreciate our accomplishments.

In the end it is a Sox board. That doesn't change. You guys run over here and post every Yankee success -- and when it's a failure you remind us of past successes -- only to make it known to Sox fans. If you were truly interested in just appreciating your beloved Yankees, you'd do it where Yankee fans are embraced, on a Yankee message board.

 

I don't care what you say about how you don't like most of the Yankee boards, you aren't here to just enjoy the rivalry. You've even said as much yourself when you posted that the reason you came over here and picked your username was to remind Sox fans after their '04 ALCS ultimate comeback about their place in history relative to the Yankees. There's no altruism there.

 

Basically, it comes down to this. If you must - just can't find the control to avoid - celebrating Yankee success on a Sox board, then you have to expect to get s*** on by Sox fans. Not fair? Maybe, but that's life. You have the choice to avoid that, but it won't go away. I post on a couple of Yankee boards - infrequently - and I have the respect to leave the rivalry at the door. I only talk about the facts and figures - stats - of the game. Perhaps I'm being a little sensitive, but it's only because I expect the same respect in return.

[schillingouttheks]

Let's remember that the Yankee Forum was made out of the kindness of Yeszir's heart, not because we needed one.

[a700hitter]

We're celebrating our championship in the YAnkee thread. Granted' date=' it is on a Sox board, but I think you guys are being a little ridiculous. How can you not expect us to acknowledge it.[/quote']Celebrating a Yankee Division Championship on TalkSox is nothing more than obnoxious gloating. It doesn't matter what thread you do it in. So, you gloated and you were called on it and kicked in a teeth by a few posters. Rude behavior should have been anticipated by you and the other vermin Yankee fans that come to these boards.

[a700hitter]

Yankees announced today that Randy Johnson will skip his last start of the year, so he will officially finish with a 5.00 ERA. Quite a year for the Big Unit. I guess he is still getting adjusted to the AL as his ERA went up by more than a run since last year. It couldn't have anything to do with him being old.

[26 to 6]

Let's remember that the Yankee Forum was made out of the kindness of Yeszir's heart' date=' not because we needed one.[/quote']

Nonetheless, it's here.

 

Celebrating a Yankee Division Championship on TalkSox is nothing more than obnoxious gloating. It doesn't matter what thread you do it in. So, you gloated and you were called on it and kicked in a teeth by a few posters. Rude behavior should have been anticipated by you and the other vermin Yankee fans that come to these boards.

Don't point any fingers at me. I didnt even acknowledge the division title until seeing how bent out of shape you guy got. I didnt say a word about it.

 

You guys are just way too sensitive. Get over yourselves. We did no harm to anybody, but of course, you people have to make a big deal out of it, like you do everything else.

 

And I dont care what team this site is devoted to, lets practice a little f***ing tolerance. It's ridiculous to do as much criticizing of the Yankees as you do, and not expect a response or anything. You think that just because we're on talksox and that we're subject to this treatment, that we have to be content with it. Let's get real here. If anybody here is obnoxious it's you, you come in this thread any opportunity you get to bash the Yankees or something. You have your "Thuuuhhhhhhhh Yankees Lose" after every loss. That pretty much defines obnoxious. Grow up you f***ing hypocrite.

[a700hitter]

You have your "Thuuuhhhhhhhh Yankees Lose" after every loss. That pretty much defines obnoxious. Grow up you f***ing hypocrite.

Now, you know how non-Yankees fans feel when John Sterling howls his trademark call after every Yankee victory, even the meaningless 16-1 victories over Tampa Bay.

[Jon_Papelboner]

That's his call. Why should he stop doing it? Just because you don't like it? Hey, I don't like getting tickets for speeding but that doesn't mean the cops are going to stop.

[a700hitter]

And I'm not going to stop my signature post when the Yankees lose.

 

BTW: I did say he should stop his call, but believe it or not some people think it is just plain obnoxious.

[Jon_Papelboner]

And I'm not going to stop my signature post when the Yankees lose.

 

BTW: I did say he should stop his call, but believe it or not some people think it is just plain obnoxious.

 

And I find Schilling to be just plain obnoxious, nothing's going to change so why bother complaining?

[ORS]

Nonetheless' date=' it's here.[/quote']

False logic. Just because it's here doesn't mean it's safe haven for Yankee fans, as you expect it to be. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but these two teams have quite a rivalry going on. That means there's probably going to be a lot of discussion about the nemesis. That is why just about every Sox/Yankee board has a thread devoted to the opposition.

 

You guys are just way too sensitive. Get over yourselves. We did no harm to anybody, but of course, you people have to make a big deal out of it, like you do everything else.

And, we have done no harm to anyone. You guys, whether you are aware of it or not, are stirring the pot when you make cracks about the Sox and its fans and when you celebrate Yankee success here. It's a rivalry for a reason, you know? And, don't act like you are above being sensitive to the issue. You went on a tirade over the naming of the Yankee forum, and you obviously get bent out of shape when 700 celebrates a Yankee loss. And, this is important, this is when you are reading content on a Sox board. I can't imagine how upset you get when you are on Yankee board.

[schillingouttheks]

And I find Schilling to be just plain obnoxious' date=' nothing's going to change so why bother complaining?[/quote']

 

Let's remember, you're the first one that bitched about this whole thing in the first place.

 

So, using your own logic, why did you bother complaining?

[ARod2212]

Sorry' date=' he's not.[/quote']

Jeter w/ RISP- .387/1.082

Jeter w/ RISP, 2 out- .381/1.106

 

Ortiz w/ RISP- .286/.964

Ortiz w/ RISP, 2 out- .277/.932