Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[jsinger121]

if prospects are not coming our way then this deal makes no sense at all.

[a700hitter]

ya i would have wanted rhodes in the deal too. Maybe thats still a possibility.

I hate Rhodes. He is a choker deluxe.

[jsinger121]

rhodes sucks. he can't handle the pressure in a big market and chokes in the biggest situations.

[riverside sluggers]

rotoworld sayd yesterday the "prospect" we get in return is Brad Snyder, Ryan Garko and Jason Dubois. Snyder has got power potential and could platoon with Nixon this year in RF.

 

They also said this before the deal was announced as close to done. Also mentioned the Sox could be getting a relief pitcher along the lines of most likely David Riske.

[Beckett95]

rhodes sucks. he can't handle the pressure in a big market and chokes in the biggest situations.

alright how about saurbeck instead <_ . i agree with you that rhodes sucks but id rather get something than nothing and see if he can fill in as the sox lefty reliever>

[jsinger121]

i would rather get back some Guardians top prospects than either rhodes or saursuck....we already had saursuck here and he failed. the sox have dinardo as the lefty out the pen. he has shown he can pitch in boston already even though it was not alot of innings. i would rather give him a chance then bring either rhodes or saursuck in here.

[a700hitter]

If this trade is limited to Marte and Mota, I think we will be doing okay if we get only Crisp in return. Crisp is a bona fide everyday player with a good and improving offensive record. Marte is potential. It could take years for him to develop if ever. Mota would have been in a crowded Red Sox pen. Maybe we replenish the prospect pool by trading Wells. IMO we would be better off keeping Wells and having a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Wake, and Clement with Arroyo and Papelbon coming out of the pen. You never have enough pitching and Arroyo and Papelbon would be great insurance against injury by the old guys (Schill and Wells) or ineffectiveness by Clement. If they all stay healthy and perform, it will be a very deep staff, and we would have some valuable trading chips at the trading deadline to fine tune the team.

[riverside sluggers]

thats true "a700", Wells can be appealing moreso to teams now that the Sox are set with their positions, now asking for instead a 4th outfielder/prospects. It is appealing nonetheless to keep him for his last season. Arroyo and Papelbon have proved to be very effective out of the bullpen and dont pull a "Jay Payton" about it. This also gives the sox 2 reliable spot starters. Im interested in what Theo does next. He's there for 2 days and already pulled off the Coco trade afterall.

 

2006 Rotation

Curt Schilling

Josh Beckett

David Wells

Matt Clement

Tim Wakefield

 

2006 Bullpen

Bronson Arroyo

Jonathan Papelbon

Lenny DiNardo

Rudy Seanez

Mike Timlin

Julian Tavarez

Keith Foulke

 

Thats a deep 12 man staff and they got a stack of arms in Pawtucket if need be. 2005 was all about the offense, this year is def looking like it will be all about the pitching.

[jsinger121]

i am shocked that boston dirtdogs has nothing yet on the crisp to boston story because they usually have everything

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

if its not too hard to find then how come there are not that many on the free agent market. teams tend to lock them up before they reach free agency.

 

This is an extremely weak market for free agents. I already told you names of players that hit free agency. If the Red Sox had a need for that then they would get in a bidding war. Those years they had Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar who (at the time) were sticking around.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Well I'm going to be a little excited for this deal. Coco Crisp is walking into his prime hitting the age of 26. That is close to the time Damon showed up and we got him for the best years of his career. Adding Alex Gonzalez gives us excellent defense up the middle.

 

SS: Alex Gonzalez

2B: Mark Loretta

CF: Coco Crisp

 

Our corner players include Ramirez, Lowell, Youkilis, and Nixon....all with a good bat. Excellent defensive replacements in JT Snow, Alex Cora, and Tony Graffanino. We have speed on the bench in Willie Harris. The one that would really stick out to me...we don't have any takers for Clement, Arroyo, or Wells which means our pitching staff looks like the following:

 

Rotation

 

Schilling

Beckett

Wells

Clement

Wakefield

 

Bullpen

 

Foulke

Timlin

Papelbon

Tavarez

Seanez

Arroyo

 

.....thats a GREAT pitching staff with good defense up the middle...I'm happy about this.

[riverside sluggers]

Well I'm going to be a little excited for this deal. Coco Crisp is walking into his prime hitting the age of 26. That is close to the time Damon showed up and we got him for the best years of his career. Adding Alex Gonzalez gives us excellent defense up the middle.

 

SS: Alex Gonzalez

2B: Mark Loretta

CF: Coco Crisp

 

Our corner players include Ramirez, Lowell, Youkilis, and Nixon....all with a good bat. Excellent defensive replacements in JT Snow, Alex Cora, and Tony Graffanino. We have speed on the bench in Willie Harris. The one that would really stick out to me...we don't have any takers for Clement, Arroyo, or Wells which means our pitching staff looks like the following:

 

Rotation

 

Schilling

Beckett

Wells

Clement

Wakefield

 

Bullpen

 

Foulke

Timlin

Papelbon

Tavarez

Seanez

Arroyo

 

.....thats a GREAT pitching staff with good defense up the middle...I'm happy about this.

 

Good Im starting to see some optimism, though Im not surprised by yours. The offseason worries can be put to rest and get going comfortably in spring training. Im looking forwrad very much so to Crisp being the new leadoff man. Its an exciting time for RSN as this year and next season begins the youth movement.

 

What a defensive infield we have now. Youkilis hasnt really been error prone and he's got a 6 gold glove winner to back him up, Loretta at 2nd, Gonzo though weak on offense is rated one of the best "D" shortstops, Cora & Harris can come in the late innings to give Loreatta & Gonzo a spell, and we have the 2 gold glove winner in lowell at 3rd.

 

Id like to see Graff as the 4th outfielder/platoon partner with Trot so he would get more time. But so far unfortunately its not looking like he will make it past spring training. Whether it be cut, traded, or kept down in Pawtucket as insurance.

[jsinger121]

if this deal goes down officially and alex gonzalez is signed, graffanino will likely not be with the red sox in 2006.

[ACL BoSox]

If you look at CoCo Crisp stats...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crispco01.shtml

 

You'll notice that he's gotten progressively better every year since 2002, and hasn't even hit his prime yet. Add to that the fact that he's going to have the "Fenway Effect" added to his stats, and we've got a solid leadoff man with decent speed. Not to mention this guy is a fricken web gem machine.

 

Did we give up a bit much to get him, yeah probably, but it not only solves our CF problem, but gives us a good one at that.

 

Now Alex Gonzalez I'm a little bit confused by. If we were going to use Cora at SS to begin with, then why sign Gonzalez at all? What does Gonzalez have to offer that Cora doesn't? Is it possible that Red Sox plan on trading Cora?

 

I dunno, the Gonzalez signing seems stupid.

[Cityofchampions33]

Only trade possibility for Cora was for Kaz Matsui, which does us little good knowing that we have Loretta at 2nd base.

[a700hitter]

if this deal goes down officially and alex gonzalez is signed, graffanino will likely not be with the red sox in 2006.

In your opinion, he gets traded? He is fairly versatile with a decent bat. Maybe he sees some OF time in the Spring to see if he can be the backup corner OF.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Alex Gonzalez is a better defensive player than Alex Cora. Remember that Cora is not a SS...his trademark position is 2nd. I agree with Riverside about Graffanino being a 4th outfielder. I still think he can serve a purpose on this team. Certainly I think he has the ability to play in the OF and could still be used in the infield. The backups we are talking about right now (if we carry 11 pitchers) would be JT Snow, John Flaherty, Alex Cora, Tony Graffanino, and Willie Harrie.

[jsinger121]

he either gets traded or released. if they release him before the season they only have to pay him 1/6 of his 2006 salary.

[a700hitter]

he either gets traded or released. if they release him before the season they only have to pay him 1/6 of his 2006 salary.

It's going to be tough forhim to make the opening day roster, especially since Stern will need to be in the majors in April. I'd think about giving Stern back to the Braves.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

If they deals go through its fun to check out our lineup compared to last years:

 

1. Johnny Damon

2. Edgar Renteria

3. David Ortiz

4. Manny Ramirez

5. Trot Nixon

6. Kevin Millar

7. Jason Varitek

8. Bill Mueller

9. Mark Bellhorn

 

1. Coco Crisp

2. Mark Loretta

3. David Ortiz

4. Manny Ramirez

5. Trot Nixon

6. Mike Lowell

7. Jason Varitek

8. Kevin Youkilis

9. Alex Gonzalez

[ARod2212]

So, are you rebuilding or what? I like Crisp, but a rebuilding team shouldn't trade their best chip.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

So, are you rebuilding or what? I like Crisp, but a rebuilding team shouldn't trade their best chip.

 

I'm not sure the Red Sox were ever rebuilding. The front office wants to place a competitive team on the field every season while building through the farm as well. No reason you can't do both.

[riverside sluggers]

So, are you rebuilding or what? I like Crisp, but a rebuilding team shouldn't trade their best chip.

 

Actually the best chip the Sox have that all teams were asking for has been Jon Lester. Even Cleveland was earlier asking for him to be included with Marte. Florida asked for him in the Beckett deal, Arizona, etc.

 

This doesnt not "deeply" affect our future. The Sox still have prospects in Kelly Shoppach (could be backup this year), Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon, Jon Lester (2007 rotation targeted), Craig Hansen, Manny DelCarmen, Clay Bucholz, Jermaine Van Buren from the Cubs, Jacoby Ellisbury, Brandon Moss, and David Murphy. The last 3 seem set to contend for the possible open slot in right field in 2007.

 

Sox also will have 7 picks in the first 3 rounds of this Draft. Theo is a whiz when it comes to help scouting the drafts.

[krazeebrainz]

This upsets me...Granted, Crisp is a good ball player, no doubt about that. I would have been insanely happy if the Sox went after Peralta instead. Even if we had to give up a little bit more, I think that Peralta would have been worth it both in the short term and in the long run. I suppose I also just hate seeing Marte go without ever seeing him don a Sox uni...:thumbdown

[ACL BoSox]

Here's how the players stack up against the Yankees lineup position vs position IN MY OPINION:

 

1B Giambi > Youkilis/Snow

2B Loretta > Cano

SS Jeter > Gonzalez/Cora

3B Rodriguez > Lowell

LF Manny > Matsui

CF Damon = Crisp

RF Sheffield > Nixon

C Varitek > Posada

DH Ortiz > Bernie Williams (Not sure if he's their DH)

 

So its a 4-4-1 Deadlock... now pitching is another story...

[a700hitter]

So, are you rebuilding or what? I like Crisp, but a rebuilding team shouldn't trade their best chip.

Rebuilding? You wish. Teams with $120+ million payrolls are not in rebuilding mode. If this trade goes through, you should be very, very scared Yankee fans.

[example1]

This upsets me...Granted, Crisp is a good ball player, no doubt about that. I would have been insanely happy if the Sox went after Peralta instead. Even if we had to give up a little bit more, I think that Peralta would have been worth it both in the short term and in the long run. I suppose I also just hate seeing Marte go without ever seeing him don a Sox uni...:thumbdown

 

Peralta? What are you talking about? Peralta was never an option.

 

It is a little hard to watch Marte and all of his talent go. But he's going to a non-AL East team. He's part of a deal that will net us a player who fits all of our needs re: leadoff and CF. Crisp is young and getting better.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Here's how the players stack up against the Yankees lineup position vs position IN MY OPINION:

 

1B Giambi > Youkilis/Snow

2B Loretta > Cano

SS Jeter > Gonzalez/Cora

3B Rodriguez > Lowell

LF Manny > Matsui

CF Damon = Crisp

RF Sheffield > Nixon

C Varitek > Posada

DH Ortiz > Bernie Williams (Not sure if he's their DH)

 

So its a 4-4-1 Deadlock... now pitching is another story...

Just my opinion. I think Cano is already better then Loretta and Damon has 20 OBP points and Damon scored 31 more runs then him (which some is a product of the linups they are in but Clevelands lineup certainly isnt bad). Crsip also has to prove himself in a pressure situation while Damon has been there done it. That said if you want to make Crisp and Damon equal thats fine. The difference in line ups come down to the huge edges each positon holds. IMO the Yankees own huges edges over the Red Sox at 1B, SS, 3B while the Red Sox only hold one huge edge at DH. That imo makes the Yankee lineup better.

[example1]

Rebuilding? You wish. Teams with $120+ million payrolls are not in rebuilding mode. If this trade goes through, you should be very, very scared Yankee fans.

 

I think the word the FO uses is "retooling". They like the body of the machine, they just want to tweak the insides a bit. They completely rebuilt the bullpen and added considerable talent and youth to the SPs. They also completely rebuilt the lineup, but added players who, IMO, are better at doing what the Sox like to do than their previous counterparts were.

 

This team is still a 120 mill team, that's true. They will be difficult outs 1-9 and if Schilling can return to 2003 form (what the sox were hoping to purchase when they got him, not his stellar form of 2004) then its a great staff 1-5. good stuff.

[yeszir]

Threads merged.