Manny Abreu done?

[guapo34]

And he also said they're still talking about prospects, which means not done.

[Redguitar985]

Sure we could afford a slight decrease in hitting with improved pitching, but we don't need to downgrade our offense so why should we?

 

Manny wants to leave, and that's the best deal out there. Unless Ramirez decides he wants to stay, then none of this even matters.

[Beckett95]

Some Venuzuelan guy over at RedSoxNation sayd that Abreu went on Venezuelen TV to say that he isnt being traded and would reject a trade.

 

Bobby Abreu update: No trade. Abreu finishes it saying in interview in television of Venezuela. Nobody of Filadelfia has called it to say to him of the change. The this happy one in Filadelfia and is not going to eliminate its right non change

i have no idea what that really means i just tried to translate it.

[Cityofchampions33]

How could they want a high-lvel prsopect, theyre the ones getting the best power right handed batter in the AL. If anything, WE should command more.

 

Anyone have any scouting reporst on Tajeada? I can't find any good ones.

 

I really like this Michales guy, solid defense, a .399 OBP, and a solid hitter overall. He and Loretta should create a lot of RBI opportunities for Papi and Abreu. We already have 2 hitters wiht better OBPs than Damon who can hit for a good average and provide some sort of pop. IMO Michales is VERY underrated, only because he is unkown somewhat.

 

Loretta .365 OBP

Michales .380 OBP

Ortiz .366 OBP

Abreu .411 OBP

 

That is a very Bill James/Billy Beane type lineup right there.

[guapo34]

Manny wants to leave, and that's the best deal out there. Unless Ramirez decides he wants to stay, then none of this even matters.

 

 

Just becuase Manny wants to leave doesn't mean we need to trade him. He signed a contract. He can't go play somewhere else just because he wants to. Theres no way hes walking away from the money hes owed. I'm not worried about his production because hes been unhappy before and done just fine.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Didn't Manny tell ESPNDeportes he wants to stay??

 

Yes, he did, so why are the Sox still shopping him?

[Redguitar985]

Just becuase Manny wants to leave doesn't mean we need to trade him. He signed a contract. He can't go play somewhere else just because he wants to. Theres no way hes walking away from the money hes owed. I'm not worried about his production because hes been unhappy before and done just fine.

 

Well, he's been complaining and threatening that he won't come to spring training, and the FO has agreed to seek a trade for him.

[Redguitar985]

Didn't Manny tell ESPNDeportes he wants to stay??

 

Yes, he did, so why are the Sox still shopping him?

 

Everybody said that report wasn't reliable though because his agent said he still wanted to be traded.

[guapo34]

Well, he's been complaining and threatening that he won't come to spring training, and the FO has agreed to seek a trade for him.

 

They've also said they won't trade him for less than equal value. I don't remember reading anything other than speculation that he won't show up for spring training. I do remember him saying something about showing up late to spring training, which would bring a fine. Theres no way he's walking away from $60 million.

[Redguitar985]

I'm pretty sure I read that he said he wouldn't report to spring training if the team didn't trade him. But whatever. The point is that Ramirez said he wants to be traded. He's been complaining about it for years, and the FO is ready to get rid of him this time. Yeah, you're not going to get equal value for him because there aren't guys like Guerrero or Pujols on the market. But if you get back Rowand and Rollins, it's not bad. And with a healthy pitching staff, the team will still do well.

[example1]

Didn't Manny tell ESPNDeportes he wants to stay??

 

Yes, he did, so why are the Sox still shopping him?

 

Because the sox aren't going to let manny dictate what they do. Why should manny's whims have any impact on what their FO does? He is essentially their property (non-trade clause aside) and they have wanted to free themselves from his huge contract for a long time. Manny demanding a trade was little more than saying that the FO should be slightly more active in trying to move him.

[jsinger121]

They are not trading Manny unless they get equal value in return. He also said in his recent interview that he would report to spring training if he was not traded. he is not dumb and won't walk away from 57 million.

[example1]

They are not trading Manny unless they get equal value in return. He also said in his recent interview that he would report to spring training if he was not traded. he is not dumb and won't walk away from 57 million.

 

yeah, but the FO just. does. not. care. Dumping Clement and his contract would be nothing but a way of saving money. Getting Abreu is as close to equal value as the sox are going to get... perhaps they have a way of swinging Abreu for Tejada or something... who knows.

 

That interview was questionable at best, since manny denied it the next day. I would love to have Manny back, absolutely love it. however, I can understand why the FO would be looking for deals.

 

The problem with Abreu is that he's a LHH, meaning any LHP would likely find great success against the sox. So, that means another year of frustrating games against the likes of RJ and Ted Lilly. I'm sick of ted Lilly wiping the sox on the ground.

 

Anyway, there is no reason to think this deal is happening. some person on the phillies board has garnered 105 pages of responses and occasionally comes on to add stupid tid bits. If the deal happens I won't be devistated. the sox wouldn't get equal value in a single player but, as with the garciaparra trade, they could get a number of valuable players out of the deal, or youngsters they could trade for other good players. Finally, you just can't argue with Abreu's OBP and speed. It is hard to believe that he gets as many SBs as he does or that he has as much speed as he does with his body size.

[guapo34]

I think the lefty/righty issue is overblown. Lowell kills lefties. Youkilis hits them better. Loretta hits lefties better. Ortiz doesn't hit them as well, but hes still unbelieveable. Teks a switch hitter and should be fine too. If Jason Michaels were to come along in the trade, as he should, he also hits lefties better than righties.

[ORS]

I'm pretty sure I read that he said he wouldn't report to spring training if the team didn't trade him. But whatever. The point is that Ramirez said he wants to be traded. He's been complaining about it for years, and the FO is ready to get rid of him this time. Yeah, you're not going to get equal value for him because there aren't guys like Guerrero or Pujols on the market. But if you get back Rowand and Rollins, it's not bad. And with a healthy pitching staff, the team will still do well.

Manny, according to those close to him, said he wanted to be traded or he would not report. Then, Manny, talking to someone he didn't know was a reporter, said he expected to be back in Boston and was fine with that. Then, his agent says that Manny claims to have never said that to a reporter. Basically, the only thing "Manny" has been quoted as saying is, "I am willing to accept playing in Boston". Everything else is from either people close to him, or his agent, who appears to fishing for a payday since there have been reports of Manny being more inclined to dropping his 10-5 rights if his 2009 and 2010 options are picked up. I don't care if he has been wanting a trade for years. Since being in Boston, while wanting to be traded, he has posted a 1.020 OPS in 5 years. That is the stuff of legends. Only 10 players with more than 3000 PA in the history of the game have a career OPS higher than 1.000. Manny is one of them. Here are his contemporaries: Babe Ruth (1.164), Ted Williams (1.116), Lou Gehrig (1.080), Barry Bonds (1.053), Todd Helton (1.040), Jimmie Foxx (1.038), Albert Pujols (1.037), Hank Greenberg (1.017), Rogers Hornsby (1.010), and Manny comes in 10th with a 1.008. Would you honestly trade Aaron Rowand and Jimmy Rollins, two players that wouldn't crack the top-100 of all-time for their positions, for anyone on that list?

[elsrbueno]

I can't believe anyone here's getting excited over the Jason Michaels. Granted, he's average defensively and he can get on base, but he's got no power (in Philly that's a big deal) and no speed. So we basically got ourself a Kevin Millar offensively in centerfield. No thanks.

 

At least Aaron Rowand can steal bases when he gets on. Plus, he's better defensively and has shown he can hit with some power the past two years (more power than Michaels).

 

Remember. Jason Michaels is a 4th outfielder in Philly-- do we want him starting in center everyday for us? At the cost of Manny Ramirez no less?

 

Abreu, Michaels, and R. Tejada for Manny, Clement, and Shoppach would be a huge ripoff.

 

Let me start by saying that I think Manny would veto a trade to the Phillies and that Phillies fans would hate Manny from the get-go. However, if we make a deal with the Phillies I would much rather do something like this:

 

Manny, Clement, Graffanino

for

Rollins, Rowand, Tejada, prospect(s).

 

Philly trades us Rowand and keeps their s***** Michaels to man center in Philly. This gives them no place for Pat Burrell but maybe they could follow through on an Abreu for Tejada type deal and put Manny in right. Their deal. I don't want any part of Abreu in Boston personally.

 

What this does for the Red Sox: Gives us a leadoff hitter (Rollins) who can make things happen. His .338 OBP is not as high as Damon's, but the man is amazing offensively. He stole 41 bases and had a great success rate (87%). That goes along with 11 triples, 12 homers, and 38 doubles. He scored 115 runs last year. This guy is also 27 years old, almost as good as Rafael Furcal defensively and is similar offensively. He's better cheaper faster younger than Edgar was for us last year. Rowand gives the Sox great defense in center and is another guy who at 28 is just entering his prime. Robinson Tejada takes Clement's spot at the end of the rotation and at 23 has his best years ahead of him. Not to mention the emotional high of finally getting rid of Manny Ramirez' huge contract and his constant Manny being Manny ********.

 

What this does for the Phillies: Manny Ramirez is obviously the prize here offensively, but Matt Clement is coming home (from PA) so that's a decent PR move. Graffanino backs up. The Phillies could then pull the trigger on Abreu for Tejada and move either Manny or Burell to right. Jason Michaels takes over centerfield fulltime.

 

Do I think it's going to happen? Not really, because the FO doesn't have the balls to change the face of the franchise (which a Manny trade would no doubt do), and the Phillies probably don't want Manny's ******** either.

[guapo34]

If we move Manny to the Phillies we have to get Abreu. If they don't trade Abreu in the deal, they're left with him, Manny, and Burrell to play left and right field. None of those guys can play center. Obviously in that trade scenario they could play michaels in center, but they'd have nowhere to play someone. Michaels has a career slugging % of .442. Not great but not awful. It was down to only .415 last year. Maybe with more consistent play he could bring that up. His .380 career obp is very good.

 

Also, Michaels may not have much power, but which of our realistic center field options do? Coco Crisp has a little, but you probably can't get him without trading Marte.

[a700hitter]

This speculation has been going on for days. When does this reliable source say that this trade will go down? I am betting against it.

[ORS]

Michaels played 75 games in CF last year and had a Rate/Rate2 of 113/114, so I'd hardly call him average defensively. Forget including him as part of a package for Ramirez, because I don't think Manny accepts a trade to Philly (and I really don't like any of the deals I've heard proposed). They should focus on just getting Michaels. He would be a great addition IMO. He's patient at the plate ( IsoOB% - .089). He's got some pop (SLG - .442 and IsoSLG - .151). It's probably warning-track power since he doesn't hit a lot of taters, but his career AB/HR rate (38.5) is better than Damon's (47.5). Plus, he's got two years of arbitration left, meaning they'd have him for low $$ and enough time to let the farm hands develop some more. I think they should put an attractive offer together. Phils need pitching so start with a DiNardo + Meredith/Delcarmen package, and up the ante to as high as Clement + $$ to get the deal done.

[riverside sluggers]

no offense, but why are people now bringing up to trade DiNardo?

 

--He's our only lefty in the bullpen

--As far as we know, there's not that much spoken interest in acquiring him.

[ORS]

Phils need pitching. We need a CF more than we need a 2nd Abe Alvarez.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

You know, I really really really really doubt this happens. Even if the 2 sides agree, Manny has a no-trade clause and if I'm not mistaken so does Abreu.

[Beckett95]

http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=31559

[jimmycarter05]

Red Sox will keep trying to move Manny

By JIMMY GOLEN, AP Sports Writer

January 12, 2006

 

BOSTON (AP) -- The Boston Red Sox will keep trying to trade slugger Manny Ramirez even though talks with the Baltimore Orioles appear to have stalled.

 

Ramirez, the only World Series MVP in franchise history, has never been comfortable in Boston since signing an eight-year, $160-million contract five years ago. He has asked several times for a trade, and the team said it would try to find a deal it likes this winter.

 

"I think Manny knows that we have made a good faith effort to meet his ... request," co-general manager Jed Hoyer said Thursday night before the annual dinner hosted by the Boston chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America.

 

"We haven't found a deal that works for us. I know that he is happy that we've talked to teams and shown a good-faith effort to trade him."

 

The Red Sox had talked to the New York Mets, then turned their attention to the Orioles when shortstop Miguel Tejada asked them to trade him. But Tejada then said he would stay in Baltimore, and Ramirez reportedly said he would stay in Boston.

 

"To hold onto Manny's bat in the lineup, I'm glad he decided to stay," said Tim Wakefield, who won the Red Sox Pitcher of the Year Award.

 

But Wakefield bade farewell to first baseman Kevin Millar, the clubhouse cutup who agreed to a deal with the Baltimore Orioles on Thursday.

 

"Kevin will be missed," Wakefield said. "He was the guy that always kept things light and humorous and funny. Baltimore is getting a pretty good hitter and a great teammate, a guy that makes things fun."

 

Trade talks also continue for lefty David Wells, who asked to go to a team closer to his West Coast home. Hoyer also said the team will bring in a center fielder from outside the organization to replace Johnny Damon, who signed with the New York Yankees.

 

"We're making a lot of phone calls and we're working towards it," he said. "We have a list of guys we're going after and we're going after them hard and I think we're very confident we'll have a very good center fielder in 2006."

 

Hoyer said he has gotten good reports on both righty Curt Schilling and closer Keith Foulke, two stars of World Series run who struggled last season with injuries. Foulke will start the season as the closer, Hoyer said.

 

The team is prepared to go with Alex Cora at shortstop, and prospect Dustin Pedroia backing him up, if necessary.

 

"The season doesn't start for quite a while, and I think there's a lot of teams with openings right now and there's a lot of talk right now," Hoyer said. "The fans want a good leadoff hitter and a good center fielder. I think that's what we're trying to give them. We're not just trying to fill holes as quickly as possible to talk them off the bridge."

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AjTi_yMCSzorPtK9BMUc.H8RvLYF?slug=ap-redsox-ramirez&prov=ap&type=lgns

[guapo34]

Responding to a few people:

 

Going back a few pages in this thread i don't see anyone saying we should trade Dinardo. He's certainly far from untouchable though, and I'm a Dinardo fan. If he can be a piece to aquire a good CF or SS when we have no one even close to average for CF and Alex Cora for SS then you can certainly trade him.

 

Manny has a no trade clause, but he wants to be traded. He wants to leave, because lots of his friends has moved on to other teams and he doesn't like the atmosphere in Boston. There is also speculation his wife wants out, possibly because he cheated on her. Mannys no trade clause will not get in the way of him being traded. His agent may try and negotiate for more money, because he wasn't his agent when he signed the last contract and isn't getting a commision, but ultimately he has to do whats best for Manny and Manny wants to be moved. I think Philly is a terrible place for Manny because if he is cold for a little those fans can be the worst in baseball. Manny probalby doesn't realize this though. Also, he has to like the idea of playing 81 games at that ballpark. Remember his opposite field grand slam in interleague play that looked like a pop up?

[bigpappi2004]

The only way that I will give up Manny is if we get Tejada. Manny is too valuable to the club to pull of any stupid deal that would hurt the team. Tejada would be a valuable asset to the team, but I just think it is too risky to trade Manny

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I live near Philly, I've been to some games and man are those fans brutal. This one drunk guy launched a hot dog from about 15 rows up in RF that almost hit Bobby Abreu, all while yelling, "Catch this, Bobbay!"

[example1]

a very good center fielder in 2006

 

I can't help but wonder: does Reed count as a "very good" center fielder? I wouldn't think so. When I hear very good I think Beltran, Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter... not Reed. Perhaps Coco Crisp, but not Reed.

 

I wouldn't mind reed, but this raises my interest considerably.

[example1]

 

Manny has a no trade clause, but he wants to be traded. He wants to leave, because lots of his friends has moved on to other teams and he doesn't like the atmosphere in Boston.

Is any of this true? What sources are you talking about? I have heard these things, but never seen a single source saying this is why manny wants to leave. In fact, from what I've heard and observed it seems that Manny likes playing in Fenway and for Boston. He sure smiles a lot and rubs heads with everyone in sight. That's not the sign of someone who doesn't like their job.

 

There is also speculation his wife wants out, possibly because he cheated on her.

I heard this alluded to on WEEI. I believe that this is more likely. It would explain why we never hear Manny dissing Boston/the Sox, but why he still asks to leave.

 

Mannys no trade clause will not get in the way of him being traded. His agent may try and negotiate for more money, because he wasn't his agent when he signed the last contract and isn't getting a commision, but ultimately he has to do whats best for Manny and Manny wants to be moved. I think Philly is a terrible place for Manny because if he is cold for a little those fans can be the worst in baseball. Manny probalby doesn't realize this though. Also, he has to like the idea of playing 81 games at that ballpark. Remember his opposite field grand slam in interleague play that looked like a pop up?

 

Manny is probably well aware of how fans are in every city. Why would we assume that he is more ignorant of the coming and goings of MLB than we are, given that we are mere fans and he is a HOF caliber player. I bet he knows how the Philly fans are.

 

That being said, the stupid Phills-Sox rumors were a hoax, so its all moot.

[guapo34]

If you believe the only reason he wants out is his wife, then how do you explain all the other trade requests in the past?