Official NBA thread

[ellsburyforMVP]

Using one game is a dumb argument. Just so you know.

 

Ok I'll use their entire careers..... Please answer truthfully, and I do realize this only pertains to 1 aspect of their gms, but I just wanna know what your answer is.... Down 1, 12 seconds left in the game... Who's hands do you want the ball in? Lebron or durant

[User Name]

Ok I'll use their entire careers..... Please answer truthfully' date=' and I do realize this only pertains to 1 aspect of their gms, but I just wanna know what your answer is.... Down 1, 12 seconds left in the game... Who's hands do you want the ball in? Lebron or durant[/quote']

 

Durant. He's the better "shooter". And Lebron doesn't "love" having the ball in those situations.

 

That doesn't mean Durant is the better player. Lebron is better in every other aspect of the game.

[Palodios]

Because he doesn't have the will or desire to take that last shot. Everyone has their weakness. (Except Jordan).

 

I was going to say it was because he eats too many Red Velvet cupcakes.

[User Name]

I was going to say it was because he eats too many Red Velvet cupcakes.

 

But....but....those are delicious!

[ellsburyforMVP]

Durant. He's the better "shooter". And Lebron doesn't "love" having the ball in those situations.

 

That doesn't mean Durant is the better player. Lebron is better in every other aspect of the game.

 

I wasn't using that to determine who was better.... Just making sure you weren't so delusional about lebron as some people here<_>

 

My whole thing about lebron is... I can't even really explain it, he just doesn't have "it" ?? Jordan,Kobe,magic had " it " .....

[User Name]

He had "it" in Cleveland.

 

When given a second offensive option the truth about the guy came out. The guy's not only not comfortable taking that last second shot, but he's also a very unselfish basketball player overall, so he'll pass the ball to the open man if he's double-teamed. And make no mistake, he's the guy other teams will double up on in the final seconds of a close game, not Wade.

 

But of course, that's a double-edged sword.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I wasn't using that to determine who was better.... Just making sure you weren't so delusional about lebron as some people here<_>

 

My whole thing about lebron is... I can't even really explain it, he just doesn't have "it" ?? Jordan,Kobe,magic had " it " .....

"It" doesn't exist.

[ellsburyforMVP]

"It" doesn't exist.

 

I would expect a lebron homer to say that, because he clearly doesn't have " it"

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

There's no "it" to have. Stop reading Dan Shaughnessy columns.

[ellsburyforMVP]

There's no "it" to have. Stop reading Dan Shaughnessy columns.

 

I don't have to read anyones columns to realize that lebron shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as guys like Jordan, magic, bird

[NCPack2889]

I thought the Spurs would dispatch the Thunder pretty quickly, but given the fight they have given them, and that Bosh's return may be around the corner, the NBA Finals will be pretty tight. Celtics are not going to beat the Heat. They will lose in Miami.

 

Unless LBJ fouls out.

[NCPack2889]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter

 

This is a good read. I think there is a perception that is widely repeated, and therefore widely believed by the majority of people. Usually isn't true.

[NCPack2889]

I wasn't using that to determine who was better.... Just making sure you weren't so delusional about lebron as some people here<_>

 

My whole thing about lebron is... I can't even really explain it, he just doesn't have "it" ?? Jordan,Kobe,magic had " it " .....

 

"It" is major media hype, when major columnist proclaim you have it. I don't know if you watched the Nuggets and Thunder series, but Kobe didn't have "it." He was awful in the clutch, but because he made a big shot here and there in the past, and has rings, it was enough for the talking heads to proclaim he had "it."

 

I'm sorry, but I really think people are swayed by the major hype they are given. Looking at the numbers, none of those guys really have "it." Except LeBron, who has been the more efficient player in clutch situations than either Kobe or Wade. Looks like statistics bust the preconceived notions....

[NCPack2889]

[table]Final 24 Sec (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 6 21 0.286 1 8 0.125 1 0.167

LeBron 5 12 0.417 1 3 0.333 1 0.200

Wade 2 5 0.400 0 2 0.000 0 0.000[/table]

 

[table]Final Minute (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 10 31 0.323 2 10 0.200 2 0.200

LeBron 10 20 0.500 1 3 0.333 1 0.100

Wade 3 10 0.300 1 5 0.200 1 0.333[/table]

 

[table]"Clutch" (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 81 203 0.399 11 41 0.268 12 0.148

LeBron 70 154 0.455 17 48 0.354 10 0.143

Wade 39 102 0.382 4 15 0.267 5 0.128[/table]

[ellsburyforMVP]

[table]Final 24 Sec (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 6 21 0.286 1 8 0.125 1 0.167

LeBron 5 12 0.417 1 3 0.333 1 0.200

Wade 2 5 0.400 0 2 0.000 0 0.000[/table]

 

[table]Final Minute (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 10 31 0.323 2 10 0.200 2 0.200

LeBron 10 20 0.500 1 3 0.333 1 0.100

Wade 3 10 0.300 1 5 0.200 1 0.333[/table]

 

[table]"Clutch" (Playoffs since 2000)

Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd Ast'd

Kobe 81 203 0.399 11 41 0.268 12 0.148

LeBron 70 154 0.455 17 48 0.354 10 0.143

Wade 39 102 0.382 4 15 0.267 5 0.128[/table]

 

I don't need to see stats that skew things into lebron's favor..... I watched with my own eyes how he completely " mailed " it in against the celtics a few yrs ago ( last yr in cle ) and his 4th quarter numbers in the finals last yr, should make even the biggest lebron nut-hugger cringe..

 

The only people I've ever heard say that there is no "clutch" or "it-factor" are lebron fans, wonder why?

 

We all know lebron's numbers are on par with MJ , magic , bird, but can you in good conscience say lebron belongs in the same company as those legends?? What separates them? The ability to raise their greatness to another level in the biggest of games on the greatest of stages.... Something that, I'm not saying lebron can't, but he hasn't done yet

[ellsburyforMVP]

"It" is major media hype, when major columnist proclaim you have it. I don't know if you watched the Nuggets and Thunder series, but Kobe didn't have "it." He was awful in the clutch, but because he made a big shot here and there in the past, and has rings, it was enough for the talking heads to proclaim he had "it."

 

I'm sorry, but I really think people are swayed by the major hype they are given. Looking at the numbers, none of those guys really have "it." Except LeBron, who has been the more efficient player in clutch situations than either Kobe or Wade. Looks like statistics bust the preconceived notions....

 

I think it's fair to say that Kobe is past his prime and " on his last legs " .... The fact that he had a horrible postseason in his career should not take away from every thing he has done previously? I don't even like Kobe, but I still realize the impact he has had in his career

[youmetaxidermy]

He had "it" in Cleveland.

 

When given a second offensive option the truth about the guy came out. The guy's not only not comfortable taking that last second shot, but he's also a very unselfish basketball player overall, so he'll pass the ball to the open man if he's double-teamed. And make no mistake, he's the guy other teams will double up on in the final seconds of a close game, not Wade.

 

But of course, that's a double-edged sword.

 

That's his only weakness. No one was openly hating on LeBron this much when he was in Cleveland. Move to a big market team, and all of a sudden he is basketball's Antichrist, and the worst player of all time, and apparently doesn't take ANY shots in the final minutes, if you are to believe the popular opinion on the internet. They will argue against ANY AND ALL statistics, proof, and facts if it goes against their "argument" that LeBron is terrible. Imagine if the internet had been like this back when Michael Jordan was in his prime, there would probably be some pretty similar ridiculous rhetoric.

 

I just love how people like to complain when superstars constantly have their hands all over a possession, but the moment they play real basketball and hand the ball off, they are a choker. Anyone who complains about something like that so much cannot be a real fan of basketball.

[User Name]

I just love how people like to complain when superstars constantly have their hands all over a possession' date=' but the moment they play real basketball and hand the ball off, they are a choker. Anyone who complains about something like that so much cannot be a real fan of basketball.[/quote']

 

Oh God you just became my favorite poster.

[youmetaxidermy]

Welcome, sir.

 

I love watching traditional basketball. Lots of passing, lots of teamwork, lots of technique. Just because you're the best player on the team does not mean you should be the only one to take the potential game winning shot. This is why I am such a big fan of Spoelstra. Despite having a menacing Big 3, he makes sure that the entire team shares responsibility in any win or loss and the ball gets around. Once Miami acquires a true star point guard, you will see this even more.

[ellsburyforMVP]

That's his only weakness. No one was openly hating on LeBron this much when he was in Cleveland. Move to a big market team, and all of a sudden he is basketball's Antichrist, and the worst player of all time, and apparently doesn't take ANY shots in the final minutes, if you are to believe the popular opinion on the internet. They will argue against ANY AND ALL statistics, proof, and facts if it goes against their "argument" that LeBron is terrible. Imagine if the internet had been like this back when Michael Jordan was in his prime, there would probably be some pretty similar ridiculous rhetoric.

 

I just love how people like to complain when superstars constantly have their hands all over a possession, but the moment they play real basketball and hand the ball off, they are a choker. Anyone who complains about something like that so much cannot be a real fan of basketball.

 

 

No " real fan " would never of questioned Jordan?? Even haters respected the man? When Jordan had the ball down 1 with 20 seconds to go, you'd bet your life savings the bulls were going to win the game... For you to even speculate that people would of bashed Jordan like they do lebron makes you an idiot in my eyes, or your too young to have actually watched him play..

 

People bash lebron because he thinks he's the GOAT, When we all know there's only one #23....

[youmetaxidermy]

I watched the Bulls play. The Bulls were my number one team growing up (Seattle being my number two), and I watched his games all of the time. I grew up in the Jordan era. The reason why no one dissed him was because the sports media was nowhere near as obsessively snarky as it is today, and the internet was nowhere near where it is today, where any idiot can hate on anything just because he can whether what he says has any basis in reality or not. I'm not saying that any bashing of MJ back in the day would have been ACCURATE, but I could see it happening if it was happening in today's world. You seem to forget that the generation we live in now is far more cynical than any prior to it.

 

LeBron also is more humble than you seem to believe he is. Have you actually followed his life and career? He hero worships MJ and acknowledges that he is the best of all time. This is what I'm talking about. Anyone with a keyboard and mouse is now able to invent the man's biography, way of thinking, and playing ability through sheer hyperbole.

[User Name]

So saying that there's the possibility that the media may have somehow turned on Jordan makes someone an idiot?

 

What are you talking about?

[youmetaxidermy]

The internet in a nutshell.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a lebron " hater" per say, I do realize that he's the best overall player in the NBA, but even as good as he is, it just seems that he can't take over a game in a crucial spot the way Jordan or magic did...

And your right, the "star" shouldn't take every crucial shot, but it seems to me that lebron shy's away from them... Like the other night, some people say " he was triple-teamed"!!!! No, lebron dribbled into the strong side of the defense, he had an iso on the left side, with kg rotating over... Lebron could of gotten alot higher % shot if he went to his left than the 17-ft fadeaway with kg's hand in his face that haslem took

 

Oh and I do believe alot of people " bashed " lebron for the way he was a no-show against the celtics in the playoffs when he was with Cleveland..

[User Name]

If you're not a hater i don't know what a hater is. You're also the only person i've seen spouting this stuff about dribbling into the D's strong side. It was a pre-determined play that the C's countered.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Can you name any series that Jordan was a " no-show " in the playoffs?

[User Name]

You're making no sense.

 

Jordan is Jordan, Lebron is Lebron. No one is comparing the two. What in heaven's name are you trying to imply?

[ellsburyforMVP]

If you're not a hater i don't know what a hater is. You're also the only person i've seen spouting this stuff about dribbling into the D's strong side. It was a pre-determined play that the C's countered.

 

Your saying that the play they drew up with 20 seconds left and two of the best players in the NBA was for haslem to take the last shot? I may have read that wrong, maybe you were implying something else?

 

I don't think there was any play, other than isolate James and let him Decide what to do?

[User Name]

Your saying that the play they drew up with 20 seconds left and two of the best players in the NBA was for haslem to take the last shot? I may have read that wrong, maybe you were implying something else?

 

I don't think there was any play, other than isolate James and let him Decide what to do?

 

I'm implying they d'ed up pretty well. What does that have to do with Haslem?

[youmetaxidermy]

Inventing an argument that no one else is trying to make with you is not how you win a debate. This has nothing to do with MJ - all I said is that he would be under more scrutiny if he was playing in today's world. Which is true. No one in sports is safe in 2012, even if they turn water to wine while they get a triple double. I also never said that LeBron was without weaknesses. He just isn't as terrible and overrated as 90% of the internet seems to think he is. Amateur sports journalism is pretty much all hyperbole and nothing else.

 

Besides that, come on, the Celtics have one of the best defensive squads in the Association. Even LBJ is going to run into major problems with that kind of squad.