Ramirez Asks For Trade (merged)

[example1]

Why even get into the Manny for Vlad discussion? Its stupid. The Angels would NOT EVER EVER EVER do that deal. Vlad is too valuable, especially for his price tag. It would be a downgrade in many respects for them, not the least of which is clubhouse chemistry.

 

When we trade Manny we will likely get a decent MLB player and a few good prospects. I want those prospects to be as good as Anibal Sanchez in terms of ceiling and it sounds like Milledge is in that category. We dont' need heilman, do we?

 

If we lose manny we will improve for the future. If we keep him we will stay good for the present.

 

Stop with all this silly Manny-Vlad talk, it makes this board appear to be a place of dreamy starry-eyed Sox fans rather than rational ones... in my humble opinion.

[Bostons_Finest]

Boston Gets: Bartolo or paul byrd with ervin santana

Angels:Manny a prospect?

[Soxfan1]

Are you guys nuts? There is no way that Arizona or Anaheim will do that sort of deal? Arizona the money is fine but there losing a lot there. anaheim the money is the issue. Maybe subsitutuing Tracy with Green would work though.

[riverside sluggers]

according to this manny will accept any trade to get out of boston.

 

Rotoworld: With Alfonso Soriano fading from the picture, the Mets are going after Manny Ramirez. The Bergen Record says GM Omar Minaya spent a good portion of the Thanksgiving holiday talking with the Red Sox. The Mets weren't willing to give up Lastings Milledge for Soriano, but they almost certainly would have to part with him in a Ramirez deal. According to a National League executive, the Mets made notable progress in talks, a development that was seconded by a club official who said Sunday night, "We have a shot." A former handler of Ramirez's in Cleveland spoke with the slugger last week about a potential move to the Mets. "He's not crazy about New York, but he said he would go there if that was the only way to get out of Boston," the source said. "He's just fed up with people bothering him all the time, showing up at his house."

[Cityofchampions33]

I've heard the possibility that he has family issues and since they all live in NY, and everyone knows where he lives (The Ritz) that he is easily found and bothered by some members of his family, and that's why he wants to move to the West Coast.

[ahhchon]

i been to a game vlad played in. He hit a double off the green monester, and when he hit it i thought it was gonna be a home run. i never saw a guy hit a ball so hard. If i was the Angels, it would be stupid to trade Vlad for Manny, because Manny is older, slower,and worse on defense. Vlad is fast, has a strong arm, hits almost as well, and can play very good defense.

 

first off, can anyone in this forum spell anymore? the spelling here is just piss poor.

 

secondly, have you really seen vlad play recently? manny isn't the best fielder on earth but if he tried i bet he could get to a fly ball faster than vlad. vlad has no range whatsoever, just a cannon for an arm, an inaccurate arm that is. his defence is not good. who knows how much longer those knees can hold up.

 

john

[MC Hammer]

first off, can anyone in this forum spell anymore? the spelling here is just piss poor.

 

secondly, have you really seen vlad play recently? manny isn't the best fielder on earth but if he tried i bet he could get to a fly ball faster than vlad. vlad has no range whatsoever, just a cannon for an arm, an inaccurate arm that is. his defence is not good. who knows how much longer those knees can hold up.

 

john

Vlad has run like he has a stick up his ass and has for a while now.

[MC Hammer]

according to this manny will accept any trade to get out of boston.

Does Manny think he'll have any more privacy in New York? If anything he's going to have much less. I wish someone would smack Manny and tell him to stop being such a bitch.

[SuperManny]

yeah i dont see how much more privacy he will get in NY - also making $20 million a year couldn't you just buy a mansion and build a big wall around your property? or if your living at the ritz like Manny just have a guard or something

[ORS]

This is the personal issue?

He's just fed up with people bothering him all the time, showing up at his house.

 

He lives in a suite in a public hotel! IMO, this is the latest installment of Manny's reasons for his wanderlust. If he was serious about the privacy issue, he would move into a big house with a big gate in a suburban gated community. Pimping it at the Ritz seems more important than being left alone.

 

There is one good develpoment in this situation though. By getting the notion that Manny will accept a trade anywhere out, this makes negotiations easier for the FO because it opens the floor to competition. Perhaps that was the reason for this quote in the first place?

[Beckett95]

Mets-Bosox talks for Manny heat up --Bergen Record

 

Omar Minaya spent the entire Thanksgiving holiday working the phones - or, to be more specific, working the Red Sox for a possible deal for Manny Ramirez. According to a National League executive, the Mets made notable progress, a development that was seconded by a club official who said Sunday night, "We have a shot."

 

Ramirez is, and always has been, Minaya's biggest prey, although the hunt until now has been slowed by two obstacles. First, Ramirez' $20 million annual salary was more than the Wilpon family was willing to spend. And second, Ramirez, 33, would almost certainly cost the Mets hot-shot outfield prospect Lastings Milledge.

 

That's one reason Minaya was exploring a deal for Alfonso Soriano - until the Rangers' demands included Milledge, said the NL source. Once the price tag became too steep, Minaya resumed an earlier dialogue with the Red Sox, who were surprisingly receptive. It's still unclear whom, exactly, the Red Sox would demand in addition to Milledge, but Minaya may be willing to convince ownership that with Ramirez in a lineup that already has Carlos Delgado, the East can be conquered outright in 2006.

 

Ramirez seems poised for a trade. Just last week he asked one of his former handlers in Cleveland to join him in New York, if and when a trade finally happens. The friend, who asked to remain anonymous, said Sunday: "Manny's first choice is still Anaheim, because he feels he could play there without fans bothering him too much. He walked around the malls there and no one noticed him. He liked that.

 

"He's not crazy about New York, but he said he would go there if that was the only way to get out of Boston. He's just fed up with people bothering him all the time, showing up at his house."

 

Minaya still will have to lean on the Wilpons to make room on the payroll for Ramirez. With a $30 million offer on the table for Billy Wagner - which is likely to balloon now that B.J. Ryan is finalizing a five-year deal worth $47 million with the Blue Jays - Ramirez could turn the Mets into a $115 million to $120 million investment next year, and that's even if Boston assumes some of the slugger's salary.

 

Still, the temptation to score a blizzard of runs could be great enough to make Ramirez worth any price. Although he batted under .300 for the first time since 1998, Ramirez nevertheless finished third in the American League with 45 home runs and tied for second with 144 RBI. More poignantly, Ramirez batted .358 with runners in scoring position, cementing his reputation as a nearly-uncontainable force under pressure.

 

Indeed, Manny's focus - and lack of it - have become legendary.

 

In 2005, he batted only .237 with the bases empty, but his average zoomed to .346 with runners on.

 

Of course, Ramirez's mood swings and erratic behavior have exasperated Boston officials for years, and the fact that the Mets are moving closer to a deal suggests the Red Sox have had enough of the outfielder's antics.

 

But Minaya believes Ramirez will be happier in New York and therefore less likely to stray. Ramirez's friend also said Manny's friendship with Pedro Martinez, "would make it easier for him [to play for the Mets]."

 

With Delgado in town today for his first press conference as a Met, the talk with be all about the new-look, newly-muscled offense. Apparently, this dialogue now requires an asterisk. It says: to be continued.

[elsrbueno]

In previous seasons, the primary reason to move Manny Ramirez was that huge contract. If he's serious this time, and will no longer be happy in Boston, the Red Sox need to persue trading him.

 

If the latest is true, that he'd accept any deal just to get out of Boston, that opens up the Red Sox options but basically forces them to trade him.

 

I like the idea of Manny and Wells to Arizona for Green, Glaus, and Vazquez. No one player can replace Manny Ramirez with the bat, but can 2? What makes that deal feasible is that the money works out, both teams are getting rid of happy players (Vazquez, Wells and Ramirez).

 

Anaheim will probably get into the sweepstakes, but Boston may be forced to take on someone like Erstad to help ease the burden of Manny's salary. Anaheim's got talent to burn with the likes of Jake Woods, Ervin Santana, Kendry Morales, Casey Kotchman, and others. They could enter 2006 with a 1-2 punch of Manny and Vlad in their lineup-- damn scary.

 

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Los Angeles Dodgers? They have potentially the deepest farm system in the game, money to blow, and a new GM who's probably overanxious to make a splash. If I were the Red Sox I'd talk about a potential Greg Miller/Edwin Jackson trade that could potentially include JD Drew (we've got to take on some kind of financial responsibility......)

 

The Mets rumors probably won't go away until the day Manny Ramirez is traded. If he isn't traded before Opening day, the Mets rumors will persist. It's no secret that Omar Minaya covets Ramirez, and the media will continue to play that up no matter what role the Mets play in potential deals. I like the idea of Manny for Delgado and Millege as a starting point, with the Mets potentially adding a pitching prospect. Delgado simply isn't as good as Ramirez, but he's a dominant bat and the prospects can make up for the loss of talent. Delgado is not great defensively at first, so there are drawbacks.

 

With any deal including Manny Ramirez, the Red Sox HAVE to get a couple prospects, aquire at least one MLB ready player, and will be forced to either a) eat a portion of Manny's contract, or take on someone else's undesired contracts.

 

So far the best proposal I've seen anywhere is the Arizona deal (Glaus, Green, Vazquez for Wells and Ramirez) because that seems like a deal that works for all parties. Ramirez and Wells want to go out west, Vazquez wants to come back east, and Glaus/Green are both decent offensive players.

 

Yes, Vazquez struggled during the second half of 2004 with the Yankees, and he could potentially be a bust in Boston, but that's a risk I'd be willing to take since he'd be your #4 starter.

[youkilis rules]

Has anyone actually mentioned what we do if we get Milledge? Do we keep him and let him become our top prospect? Do we put him in the ML this year? Or is that Adam Dunn rumor still alive? I would love to spin Milledge to the Reds if we got Dunn who we could then stick in LF and put Youks at 1b. Thoughts? Answers?

[Beckett95]

Mets--

manny ($19,806,820)

Sox--

Cliff Floyd ($6,500,000 would replace manny in LF)

Kaz Matsui (because he gets rid of salary $7,058,333 and had potential coming from Japan)

Royce Ring(24 year old lefty pitcher could help in pen for now)

Lastings Milledge (21 year old CF might be major league ready and insurance if damon doesnt sign)

 

OR

 

LAD--

Manny (19,806,820)

David Wells ($4,075,000 in the west coast)

Sox--

JD Drew ($9,400,000 replaces manny in LF)

Edwin Jackson (very good young SP)

Jeff Kent (veteran plays 2B or 1st and takes up salary $7,350,000)

Odalis Perez--($4,500,000)

[riverside sluggers]

Lastings Milledge as many scouts suggested would start the season off in Triple A, then get the traditional September call up before being an opening day starter in 2007. He shouldnt be written off right away as he is basically one of the best outfield prospects there is.

 

With Adam Dunn, intriguing because past 2 seasons he has produced 40+ HRs and 100+ RBIs, and can walk 100+ times. He's just got to bring the K's down

[riverside sluggers]

this makes it sounds like its possibly close at hand for a Manny deal

 

7 News has reported Manny has put his penthouse condo in Boston up for sale.

[Beckett95]

manny just assumes hes being traded and this is a step closer for him to be traded by selling his house

[ORS]

Or it means he's tired of the lack of privacy where he currently lives.

 

I'm in the "Keep Manny" boat, and she's taking on water in a bad way. I gotta keep bailing to keep the hope alive.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

At this point I hope he stays too. I haven't heard a good trade rumor yet. The only team I hear big rumors and the one team truely interested is the NY Mets. The one name I hear the most is Lastings Milledge but call me crazy....I'm not THAT excited about him no matter how much the Mets want to talk him up. David Wright...David Wright...David Wright...then we can talk. I don't care how much the Mets fans love him or whatever, I don't care what they think his potential is....that should be the asking price for a premier hitter in the league. Omar is so in love with Manny then give us someone who we can love too.

[yankeessuck013]

totally agree, he must be included in any trade with the mets IMO

[guapo34]

At this point I hope he stays too. I haven't heard a good trade rumor yet. The only team I hear big rumors and the one team truely interested is the NY Mets. The one name I hear the most is Lastings Milledge but call me crazy....I'm not THAT excited about him no matter how much the Mets want to talk him up. David Wright...David Wright...David Wright...then we can talk. I don't care how much the Mets fans love him or whatever, I don't care what they think his potential is....that should be the asking price for a premier hitter in the league. Omar is so in love with Manny then give us someone who we can love too.

 

 

The problem is, the Mets aren't trading Wright. Which means you probably have to keep Manny if you won't trade him to the Mets without getting Wright. Wright makes the league minimum and put up an OPS of .912 last year at the age of 22. He has one more year where he isn't even arbitration elibible. Omar may be in love with Manny but hes in love with Wright too. I don't think the Mets would trade him to us if we included Papelbon and Lester.

[riverside sluggers]

I don't think the Mets would trade him to us if we included Papelbon and Lester.

 

what? thats a raping

 

Sox get David Wright

Mets get Manny, papelbon and Lester

 

no such thinking would be brought up like that

[example1]

The problem is, the Mets aren't trading Wright. Which means you probably have to keep Manny if you won't trade him to the Mets without getting Wright. Wright makes the league minimum and put up an OPS of .912 last year at the age of 22. He has one more year where he isn't even arbitration elibible. Omar may be in love with Manny but hes in love with Wright too. I don't think the Mets would trade him to us if we included Papelbon and Lester.

 

Jesus guapo, mentioning the prospect of trading Manny, Lester and Papelbon (even in jest) almost made my heart stop!!

 

I totally agree with everything you guys are saying. Wright is a MUST, and he should come WITH milledge. Two great prospects for a HOF OF. I don't care if Wright IS only 22 and has done what he's done, chances are he will never be as good as manny currently is. Milledge, the same goes for you bud.

 

I have faith that manny won't be such an ass as to refuse to play for the sox if they do everything they can in good faith to trade him without selling the farm. They paid 20 million a year, he agreed to the contract. If they are going to trade him before his contract is expired, they have every right to get their money's worth in any trade. They have the right to choose who he goes to and what they get in return (at least what they get in return).

 

Manny MUST understand why he's such a difficult player to trade. His salary, his lack of defense, his lack of hustle, and, did I mention the salary? He should not screw over a team that has paid him 20 million a year, fallen for every request he has had and who's fans love him. He's not that big of an ass.

 

Given that, don't trade him unless you absolutely know you're getting a good deal. Sox fans are mature and inciteful enough to be okay with getting good prospects, but only one prospect or getting players who aren't even their team's best prospects is out of the question.

[ahhchon]

if dunn brought the k's down he'd be barry bonds...

 

john

[26 to 6]

Mets--

manny ($19,806,820)

Sox--

Cliff Floyd ($6,500,000 would replace manny in LF)

Kaz Matsui (because he gets rid of salary $7,058,333 and had potential coming from Japan)

Royce Ring(24 year old lefty pitcher could help in pen for now)

Lastings Milledge (21 year old CF might be major league ready and insurance if damon doesnt sign)

 

OR

 

LAD--

Manny (19,806,820)

David Wells ($4,075,000 in the west coast)

Sox--

JD Drew ($9,400,000 replaces manny in LF)

Edwin Jackson (very good young SP)

Jeff Kent (veteran plays 2B or 1st and takes up salary $7,350,000)

Odalis Perez--($4,500,000)

I happen to like both of those for the Red Sox. I dont think the Mets give Floyd though. Just my feeling. But very good proposals there.

[guapo34]

Think of it this way, Manny is going to make at least 42 million more than Wright over the next 3 years. Next year alone Manny will make $18 million more. Its impossible to know the exact number because of arbitration. Manny put up an OPS 70 points higher than Wright. But Manny also played terrible defense and is a terrible baserunner also. I don't know much about David Wrights defense, but i'm sure everyone remembers the barehanded catch he made running back. Its also more dificult to find a good hitting third basemen than a good hitting left fielder.

 

Older players generally get worse with age. Mannys offensive production has gone down 3 years in a row. Its not a sharp decline, but a decline. Good Young players tend to get better. It isn't unlikely that Wright will be better offensively than Manny in a couple years. Its not impossible that this won't happen next year.

 

Once again, Manny will cost at least $42 million more. Then Manny will probably retire while Wright will play another 10 years. If we get Wright in a deal for Manny no one will be happier than me. I'd be willing to bet everything I have that we won't.

[example1]

Mets--

manny ($19,806,820)

Sox--

Cliff Floyd ($6,500,000 would replace manny in LF)

Kaz Matsui (because he gets rid of salary $7,058,333 and had potential coming from Japan)

Royce Ring(24 year old lefty pitcher could help in pen for now)

Lastings Milledge (21 year old CF might be major league ready and insurance if damon doesnt sign)

 

OR

 

LAD--

Manny (19,806,820)

David Wells ($4,075,000 in the west coast)

Sox--

JD Drew ($9,400,000 replaces manny in LF)

Edwin Jackson (very good young SP)

Jeff Kent (veteran plays 2B or 1st and takes up salary $7,350,000)

Odalis Perez--($4,500,000)

 

A few questions about these proposals.

What do we need Odalis Perez for? Papelbon, Schilling, Beckett, CLement, Arroyo, Wakefield...

Who replaces manny's bat in both of these trades? Cliff Floyd? Jeff Kent?

I'm not interested in any trade that doesn't give us a current major league power hitter. If he's not the caliber of Manny (or, not close to that caliber like, say, Delgado or Konerko) then I also expect a top prospect, a "franchise player" potential prospect. The Mets or the Dodgers or the Angels are getting THE WORLD when they get manny ramirez. He is a hall of famer, one of the best hitters of his generation.

 

Manny has averaged .85 RBI a game his entire career.

Now, I know that RBIs are not the best way of measuring a player's value. However, it IS true that the greatest hitters of all time had lots of RBI's. You can only get lots of RBI's by being a great hitter, so the two aren't totally unrelated.

 

Anyway, just for fun:

Hank Aaron (all time RBI leader): .70 RBI/G

Babe Ruth: .88 RBI/G

Lou Gherig: .92 RBI/G

Eddy Murray: .63 RBI/G

Barry Bonds: .68 RBI/G

 

If Manny plays in as many games as Bonds has, he will have passed Hank Aaron by 23 RBI's. Aaron would have played in 568 more games!!

 

I don't trade this guy lightly.

[riverside sluggers]

What do we need Odalis Perez for? Papelbon, Schilling, Beckett, CLement, Arroyo, Wakefield...

 

If you dont know yet, Clement and Arroyo are still deemed as trade-able

[ksushi]

Clement is, I like arroyo for the bullpen and the sox do too i believe, I read something where they had plans to utilize him there. I think hes worth more to us than anybody else. Clement, eh, trade him so we can have room to get a starting pitcher in return if we run manny out of town, or if we sign someone or decide to bring up young blood.

[riverside sluggers]

I think Clement's playoff start against Chicago couldve been the straw that broke the camel's back for the Sox FO. Thats how it was with me anyway. If he does come back, he'll be on a short leash no doubt.