offseason moves

[riverside sluggers]

I'd be surprised if gonzalez gets a lot of money from us if we do sign him as rumored. For 2.5 million hes not a terrible signing. If we go with Cora we don't really have a backup SS. Pedroia won't be on the major league team as a backup. Its much more valuable to keep him at Pawtucket where he'll get ABs regularaly. I don't think Graffanino is a viable back up option at SS or else he'd get the starting job cuz he can actually hit.

 

Theres still Willie Harris who most likely still has a shot to make the opening day roster

[guapo34]

Willie Harris has played 5 games at SS in his career. I'm not sure he'd be a better option than graffanino.

[guapo34]

i think the rangers are the favorites to sign clemens now especially with hicks big connection to the university of texas. he has been wining and dining clemens all winter

 

I don't think hicks will go to $15 million to get Clemens, and I think thats the minimum he signs for.

[riverside sluggers]

I didnt say that he would be a better option than Graffanino. I was just pointing out who could be utility shortstop.

[jsinger121]

we have no idea what clemens will be asking for or if he is even coming back yet. i doubt even the yankees with their big payroll will dish out 15 million for clemens

[RedSoxRooter]

I don't think we should move Wells or Clement until we know the true status of Schilling and Foulke (sometime in spring training). Also, the longer we hold onto them the more valuable they may become in some other team's eyes.

[a700hitter]

i think the rangers are the favorites to sign clemens now especially with hicks big connection to the university of texas. he has been wining and dining clemens all winter

ATBTY-- Any team But the Yankees

[a700hitter]

we have no idea what clemens will be asking for or if he is even coming back yet. i doubt even the yankees with their big payroll will dish out 15 million for clemens

The Yankees will. You can count on it.

[jsinger121]

i wouldn't be so sure. remember last year they said they were tapped out when they couldn't sign carlos beltran. even the yankees have a spending limit. its just greater than any other team.

[a700hitter]

i wouldn't be so sure. remember last year they said they were tapped out when they couldn't sign carlos beltran. even the yankees have a spending limit. its just greater than any other team.

Beltran was looking to get 7 years $100 million. A one-time hit to their budget of $15-20 million is much different.

[riverside sluggers]

Rosenthal, little prick. Sorry my launguage, but he always seems to roll out these articles that are targeted at the Sox. Just adit already that you got tisses and lotion by the yankees symbol already.

 

New-look Red Sox could use a make-over

 

If this is the Red Sox's grand makeover, then their fans should look forward to the non-waiver trade deadline on July 31 — do-over day for teams that can't get it right the first time. Even if the Red Sox complete their trade for center fielder Coco Crisp, 26, and sign free-agent Alex Gonzalez, 28, their lineup will be too old, too lacking in athleticism, too laden with players in decline. Equally alarming, three of the team's most important pitchers — right-handed starters Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett and right-handed closer Keith Foulke — are physical risks.

 

On the plus side, the Sox have retained their best young arms, seemingly improved their bullpen and acquired a starting second baseman, Mark Loretta, for a backup catcher, Doug Mirabelli. And of course, barring an unexpected trade of left fielder Manny Ramirez, they again will feature Ramirez and designated hitter David Ortiz, the game's best offensive duo. But right now, this team looks suspiciously like last year's Yankees, who won 95 games only after promoting second baseman Robinson Cano and right-hander Chien Ming-Wang, and getting lucky with pitchers like Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small.

 

The Sox are well-positioned to make a similar in-season transition, if necessary. Infielder Dustin Pedroia could become the Sox's version of Cano if Loretta or Gonzalez falters. Pitchers Jon Lester, Manny Delcarmen and Craig Hansen all might join the staff before season's end. And returning GM Theo Epstein already has proven that he can transform an underperforming team into a World Series champion at the trade deadline — he did it in 2004.

 

The problem is, the Red Sox not only must overcome the Yankees, a team with a superior offense, but also the Blue Jays, a team that — on paper — looks good enough to compete for at least a wild card. Given the questions surrounding the Yankees and Sox, the Jays' off-season spending spree is the baseball equivalent of a high-risk, high-return investment. Their window finally is ajar, and they've got a chance to make a killing.

 

The Yankees face the same type of pitching concerns as the Sox, from the age and health of their rotation to the consistency of their bullpen. Their advantage is Johnny Damon, the free-agent center fielder whom they signed away from the Red Sox. With Damon batting leadoff, the Yankees' offense should be almost fool-proof. The cumulative effect of the Sox's changes, meanwhile, could leave their offense short.

 

That's a huge concern; run production previously was the Red Sox's greatest strength. The Sox have scored 900 runs in each of the last three seasons, becoming the first American League team to achieve that distinction since the 1936 to '39 Yankees. In '04, when their pitching ranked third in the league in ERA, they won the World Series. In '05, when their pitching ranked 11th, they got swept in the first round.

 

Their pitching this season is difficult to forecast: It doesn't figure to be worse, but probably won't be good enough to compensate for any offensive dropoff. Crisp, provided that he can handle Boston, should prove an adequate replacement for Damon — their career on-base/slugging percentages, when adjusted for park variances, are exactly the same. The bigger offensive concern is the Red Sox's revamped infield.

 

Individually, each change makes sense. Third baseman Mike Lowell was the price for acquiring Beckett. Mirabelli for Loretta was something of a steal. First baseman J.T. Snow effectively replaces John Olerud, and holdover Kevin Youkilis should prove at least as productive as Kevin Millar. If signed, Gonzalez should provide reliable defense while batting ninth. Alex Cora remains the backup at second and short.

 

Those six players, however, combined to average only one home run every 85.2 at-bats last season. The infielders who departed — Bill Mueller, Edgar Renteria, Mark Bellhorn, Tony Graffanino, Olerud and Millar — averaged one every 49.7 at-bats. And that group wasn't especially stellar.

 

Now consider the OPS declines for each of the four new infielders:

 

2004 2005 League Average '05

Lowell .870 .658 .786

Loretta .886 .707 .752

Gonzalez .689 .687 .692

Snow .958 .708 .843

 

Loretta gets a pass — he was out from May 18 to July 19 after undergoing surgery to repair sprained ligaments in his left thumb, and should be an upgrade in the No. 2 spot over Renteria. Lowell, however, had the second lowest OPS among NL players who had enough at-bats to qualify for the batting title. And Snow, a left-handed hitter, played almost exclusively against right-handed pitching; in other words, he was given the best possible chance to succeed.

 

It is not unreasonable to expect comeback seasons from one or more of the new infielders. All four are coming from the National League. All four are leaving pitching-friendly home parks for Fenway. All four should benefit from hitting in the same lineup as Ramirez and Ortiz. Then again, Snow will be 38 on Opening Day, Loretta 34, Lowell 32. Each is a below-average runner. Each is likely past his peak. Right fielder Trot Nixon, 31, fits the same mold.

 

The Red Sox believe their infield defense will be improved, but the net effect still could be negative. And while Lester, Hansen and Co. offer viable alternatives if the pitching falters, Pedroia is the only position prospect who is close to the majors. The Sox traded shortstop Hanley Ramirez for Beckett, and now they're on the verge of trading Marte for Crisp.

 

It's tempting to say that the Sox resemble the products of a broken home, given the upheaval in their front office after the departure of Epstein. More accurately, their off-season reflects the messy work of a committee, of which Epstein was a part. The Sox didn't go young. They didn't go old. Instead, they did both, assembling too many high-risk players.

 

Check back at the deadline. Come Aug. 1, this won't be the same team

.

[26 to 6]

Off-topic, but didnt think it constituted a new thread.

 

What happened with Petagine? He is listed on the RedSox.com 40 man roster, but I looked back through the transactionjs and didnt see any mention of him re-signing. Also, mlb4u.com has him listed as a free agent.

[Beckett95]

good question and i have no idea whats up with him

[seabeachfred]

Graff should not be gone at all. The guy is versatile and can hit. Harris is a weak hitter and Gonzales is no better than Cora with the bat. In the meantime Pedroia should be switched back to shortstop in order to be ready to be called up around June when it become evident that Gonzales, like Renteria, cannot play in Boston because of the crowd's displeasure with his erratic fielding and weak hitting. Crisp will thrive in Boston, Gonzales will wilt. We must not get stuck with a long contract for this guy or we'll be stuck with him.

[Beckett95]

Off-topic, but didnt think it constituted a new thread.

 

What happened with Petagine? He is listed on the RedSox.com 40 man roster, but I looked back through the transactionjs and didnt see any mention of him re-signing. Also, mlb4u.com has him listed as a free agent.

 

on mlb.com, the red sox page has a mailbag thing and one of the people asked what happened to petagine

 

reply--

Petagine is still on the 40-man roster and will vie for a spot on the team in Spring Training. Right now, he is third on the depth chart behind Kevin Youkilis and Snow.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060122&content_id=1299200&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

[26 to 6]

on mlb.com, the red sox page has a mailbag thing and one of the people asked what happened to petagine

 

reply--

 

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060122&content_id=1299200&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

Thanks

 

I just dont understand why there has been no mention of him re-signing and why he is still listed as a free agent on some sites. But ok.

[Beckett95]

And Snow, a left-handed hitter, played almost exclusively against right-handed pitching; in other words, he was given the best possible chance to succeed.

 

Each is a below-average runner. Each is likely past his peak. Right fielder Trot Nixon, 31, fits the same mold.

snow will be used sparingly and in a pinch-hit, defensive replacement role. He didnt have youk on there as an infielder, whos ops last year was .805. Gonzalez's ops is right around league average and hes good defensively. Who knows, maybe a change of league and team can get lowell's and Snow's ops back up to where it was in 04. You cant say someone is on the decline just looking at 2 years of stats. Trot Nixon isnt on a decline. Nixon's career OPS is .855 and he's never had a year with an OPS under .800 since 1999. He also doesnt mention how good the sox bullpen is or how deep they are for SP. Everything was negative, the whole article was about how the sox infield is old and sucks. Why doesnt he write about the same thing with the yankees rotation.

[riverside sluggers]

Exactly, when it comes to writing bogus article rants on the Red Sox. He is the spin master.

[Beckett95]

heres an article in SI that is the opposite of Rosenthals

 

This just in for everybody who dumped on the Boston Red Sox in December just because their general manager had quit, their left fielder asked for a trade, their second-winningest pitcher wanted out, their most important pitchers from 2004 were hurt and they had no center fielder or shortstop:

 

No games were played in December.

 

With two months remaining before Opening Day, the Red Sox, pending a deal for Cleveland outfielder Coco Crisp, once again are a 90-win team on paper with most of their problems addressed.

 

Well, they do still have David Wells, if for nothing more than the entertainment value of bringing his tired, petulant act to Spring Training. Rest assured, Wells, the 15-game winner who wants to return to a West Coast team, won't be on the Opening Day roster.

 

The Red Sox recovered well, and quickly, from the December funk. Said Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi, whose team appeared to leapfrog the Red Sox on paper a month ago, "I never doubted them. Just one more reason why I say we can only worry about ourselves and let them take care of themselves, which they do very well. Any time you have resources, you can do some things to get better in a hurry.

 

"It's like the Yankees. They may have a hard time coming up with prospects, but they're always able to do something because of their resources.''

 

Whether the Red Sox win more than 90 games (what it takes to be a playoff team in the AL) or fewer than 90 comes down to two things: Does Josh Beckett remain healthy enough to be a dominant pitcher and do well-worn veterans Mark Loretta and Mike Lowell have gas left in their tanks?

 

Two sources familiar with the MRIs taken on Beckett's right shoulder late last year said the pictures showed major cause for concern. At least one Red Sox executive was against the deal for Beckett after seeing them. Truth is, clean MRIs for pitchers don't exist, and Beckett did throw a career-high 178 2/3 innings last year.

 

Loretta, 34, was considered by the Padres to be declining, while some scouts thought Lowell looked so bad last season that he doesn't figure to get better, a rough estimation for someone who turns 32 next month.

[riverside sluggers]

Rotoworld: To make room for Alex Gonzalez on the 40-man roster, the Red Sox might release Roberto Petagine or sell him back to Japan. It's been obvious that the 34-year-old Petagine wasn't in Boston's plans, yet he still occupies a 40-man roster spot, denying him of the opportunity to find a team that might need a quality left-handed hitter. Of course, most of the league would have ignored him as much as Terry Francona did.

 

Too bad Petagine wont get much of a chance now as insurance down in Pawtucket. One aspect of his that I like was having him on when there was RISP, including bases loaded. I think there was 2 times he had cleared the bases

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, he seemed like a good guy. Just things didn't go his way, the knee problem in ST, not getting called up until August, the faimly thing later. I wish him the best of luck as he probably won't make the team.

[pats55sox45]

i really didnt think that highly of petagine

i think i was the only sox fan that felt this way

[TheRivernator]

i really didnt think that highly of petagine

i think i was the only sox fan that felt this way

 

Everyone who ever wears a Red Sox jersey is awesome until the day they take it off, then they suck...

[jsinger121]

i really didnt think that highly of petagine

i think i was the only sox fan that felt this way

 

i wasn't too high on him either.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Everyone who ever wears a Red Sox jersey is awesome until the day they take it off, then they suck...

 

Wow.

[riverside sluggers]

Everyone who ever wears a Red Sox jersey is awesome until the day they take it off, then they suck...

 

Dude get off of it. Thats not how we all think. Example being sure Im going to be at Damon's first game back & boo out my built-up aggression, it doesnt mean I think he's gonna suck. Though his yankee stadium's stats are right now iffy, what is certain he could become a "Red Sox killer" because of his dominating stats at Fenway Park.

[TheRivernator]

Dude get off of it. Thats not how we all think. Example being sure Im going to be at Damon's first game back & boo out my built-up aggression, it doesnt mean I think he's gonna suck. Though his yankee stadium's stats are right now iffy, what is certain he could become a "Red Sox killer" because of his dominating stats at Fenway Park.

 

I am characterizing the average fan. Obviously, those who come out to the boards are usually not your average fan. Either way, his yankee stadium stats are due to good pitching most likely. Damon may become a sox killer, who knows, so long as he plays well....

[Plumpamania]

Everyone who ever wears a Red Sox jersey is awesome until the day they take it off, then they suck...

 

You mean just like Hideki Irabu, Orlando Hernandez, Andy Pettite for example?

[TheRivernator]

You mean just like Hideki Irabu, Orlando Hernandez, Andy Pettite for example?

 

I loved Pettitte and El Duque and still do...

[Plumpamania]

I loved Pettitte and El Duque and still do...

 

 

Sorry, I was just saying stereotypically.