Ortiz a Shoo-In for MVP

[Cityofchampions33]

In the MVP awrds history, a pitcher has won 17/146 times, a 11% clip if u do the math, Eckersley won in '92, and hes the last pitcher to win. Even if a pitcher doesn't win that much, if Ortiz played 1st base and played average defense, he would win, it honestly wasn't an issue when miguel tejada issued 21 errors in 2002, Frank Thomas' 15 errors in 1993, Barry Bonds .968 FP in 2002, or Ken Caminiti's 20 errors and low FP of .954 in 1996.

 

BTW, when Papi played 70 games at 1b in 1998, he only made 6 errors w/ a .989 FP. Since then, he's never gotten the chance to play the position. Why? Becuase former Yankee Ron Coomer took over that job and went to the All-star game that year. Taking over that position into 2000 and then handing the job off to Doug Mientkiewicz

[example1]

The last pitcher to WIn an MVP award was Clemens in 86, right?

 

But I think that they should officially make the MVP award for players, not pitchers, because they have the Cy Young. The only reason they probably havent yet is because pitchers pretty much never win the MVP award.

 

Totally agreed. A-Rod isn't even the most valuable YANKEE, let alone the most valuable player in the league. If you're not the most valuable player to your team, then you're not the most valuable player to your league.

 

This year, Manny has been off. The Sox starting pitching has sucked. Their relievers have sucked more. They are shoddy on defense and constantly dealing with injuries. Despite that they have stayed in first place for most of the season in front of the highest paid team in world history. The one and only constant point for the sox has been Ortiz. He's easily the most valuable player on the Red Sox. Rivera is the most valuable player on the Yankees.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Totally agreed. A-Rod isn't even the most valuable YANKEE, let alone the most valuable player in the league. If you're not the most valuable player to your team, then you're not the most valuable player to your league.

 

This year, Manny has been off. The Sox starting pitching has sucked. Their relievers have sucked more. They are shoddy on defense and constantly dealing with injuries. Despite that they have stayed in first place for most of the season in front of the highest paid team in world history. The one and only constant point for the sox has been Ortiz. He's easily the most valuable player on the Red Sox. Rivera is the most valuable player on the Yankees.

Thats not really saying much. Rivera would be the most valuable player on any team he played on including the Red Sox. Having a lights out closer is VERY valuable. For the past decade the Yankees have been blessed to know that the 9th inning and on somedays the 8th inning are are taken care of. If you really want to give the award out based on its name then Rivera should have gotten it every year since 96 and including this year.

 

With all of that said you cant take away from A-Rod just because he plays on the same team with some one who might just be the most valuable player ever to a team.

[example1]

Ortiz has been more valuable to his team than Mariano. How, without a SINGLE reliable reliever, can you explain that the sox have won as many games as the Yankees this year? By getting considerable leads. Who is to thank for most of those considerable leads? .300, 46, 140. that's who. How does he do it? Does he just knock around random single after random single, with an occasional 2 run shot thrown in for good measure? No. He comes up at the crucial part of the game... you know, the times when everyone watching turns to their friend and says "this is the crucial part of the game"... and gets it done. Sometimes it is with a 1st and 2nd double to clear the bags. Sometimes it is a solo shot to win the game. Sometimes it is a flair single to right to score the guy from second. Sometimes it is drawing a walk to give Manny a shot. Sometimes it is a sac fly to get the crucial tying run in from 3rd. Sometimes it is answering immediately after the other team rallys to tie it up with a majestic home run. He does it at home. He does it on the road. He does it against righties, he does it against lefties. The guy has just been valuable and at NO time this year has anyone said "boy, I wish ortiz was a better fielder" because in the American League.. IT DOES NOT MATTER. Olerud is a better first baseman than Ortiz. Olerud is a better first baseman than most first basemen in the league. So it would be less valuable to the team if Ortiz demanded that he play first. Don't penalize a guy for doing what's best for his team.

 

A-rod's fielding is more a factor of pitcher and hitter than it is of spectacular fielding. At third they hit it, you react. Mueller and A-Rod have similar numbers, which--to me at least--leads me to believe that A-rod's defense is easily replaced. Therefore, it is of little value. It doesn't add much to a discussion about value. If you can find defense like A-Rod's everywhere, then you won't need to pay a high price for it.

 

Don't let the fact that A-Rod WAS a shortstop with a good glove fool you into thinking this guy is Brooks Robinson. He's not Brooks Robinson. He's Bill Mueller. He's barely Eric Chavez. He's an above average fielding 3rd baseman with one HECK of a bat. His speed is insignificant, it basically gets him more singles and that's it (look at XBH's, Runs, and notice there is little difference). As both of these guys know, it don't take speed to trot around the bases after a HR.

[Cityofchampions33]

I think a big part of this race will come down to the final series, whoever comes up bigger, between the two, should win the MVP award.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Ortiz has been more valuable to his team than Mariano. How, without a SINGLE reliable reliever, can you explain that the sox have won as many games as the Yankees this year? By getting considerable leads. Who is to thank for most of those considerable leads? .300, 46, 140. that's who. How does he do it? Does he just knock around random single after random single, with an occasional 2 run shot thrown in for good measure? No. He comes up at the crucial part of the game... you know, the times when everyone watching turns to their friend and says "this is the crucial part of the game"... and gets it done. Sometimes it is with a 1st and 2nd double to clear the bags. Sometimes it is a solo shot to win the game. Sometimes it is a flair single to right to score the guy from second. Sometimes it is drawing a walk to give Manny a shot. Sometimes it is answering immediately after the other team rallys to tie it up with a majestic home run. He does it at home. He does it on the road. He does it against righties, he does it against lefties. The guy has just been valuable and at NO time this year has anyone said "boy, I wish ortiz was a better fielder" because in the American League.. IT DOES NOT MATTER. Olerud is a better first baseman than Ortiz. Olerud is a better first baseman than most first basemen in the league. So it would be less valuable to the team if Ortiz demanded that he play first. Don't penalize a guy for doing what's best for his team.

I highly disagree. If you take Ortiz off the Red Sox and put Mariano on along with someone that has maybe half the numbers that Ortiz has the Red Sox would have that division clinched. Theres this idea out there that its Ortiz and then nothing else around him. He does have what might be the best RBI man of the past decade hitting behind him. Thats why I laugh when people say that if you took A-Rod off the Yankees they would be fine compared to the Red Sox but the Red Sox have better hitters in their line up. Yes Ortiz has gotten some big hits but come on. The Red Sox arent the Royals on the offensive side of the ball.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I think a big part of this race will come down to the final series, whoever comes up bigger, between the two, should win the MVP award.

I agree, I think that will end up deciding it.

[riverside sluggers]

wow this is just so childish, its making me roll my eyes. these yes boards members are giving a disgrace for the yankee fans. multiple posts have them calling Big Papi, ah... Big Poopie

 

seriously now?

 

http://boards.yesnetwork.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63373&st=50

[riverside sluggers]

the great hall of famer, Ryne Sandberg's picks for season awards including for MVP

 

dont worry yanks, he still has his picks for awards for couple of Yankee players as well

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlDAX1aJNL5rXbJmSuxOddsRvLYF?slug=rs-alawards092705&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[ARod2212]

Sorry I haven't been around, computer is acting funny and is being fixed as we speak. I'm at school, in my break period. Just to shed some light on this ever changing issue.

 

Rodriguez now leads Ortiz in Hits, Runs, Average, On Base, Slugging, Homeruns, Stolen Bases and OPS.

Ortiz now leads Rodriguez in RBIs, Doubles, and Walks.

 

Unless the award is RBI man or clutch player of the year, Ortiz is not having a better season than Rodriguez. (And the totally un-clutch A-Rod had a game tying homer last night. Ya know in case you missed it)

 

Hey, to be more of an *******. If we're talking clutch, the past week Ortiz has a .550 OPS and a .200 average. Not saying at all that this last week defines the season, but everyone has said the stretch will determine it. And I think Rodriguez' past 7 days (1.180, .348 avg) has been hugely 'clutch'. Inside track to only Player of the Week maybe, but it supports the argument.

[ARod2212]

I'd also like to make the point, that if a Pitcher wins MVP or reliever wins Cy Young, it mainly goes to them because an Offensive player, or starting pitcher, did not have an outstanding year, leaving the award up for grabs. If you want to make the comparison, a DH has to step above and beyond all offensive players who play the field. Ortiz has not done that.

[See Red]

I'd also like to make the point, that if a Pitcher wins MVP or reliever wins Cy Young, it mainly goes to them because an Offensive player, or starting pitcher, did not have an outstanding year, leaving the award up for grabs. If you want to make the comparison, a DH has to step above and beyond all offensive players who play the field. Ortiz has not done that.

 

Out of over 72,000 people polled on ESPN.com... 59% disagree with you and say he has gone above and beyond and deserves the MVP. These clutch hits are killing A-Rod. He needs to get a few this weekend... because it's a safe bet that Big Papi will.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=frontpage&pollId=32416

[riverside sluggers]

If you want to make the comparison, a DH has to step above and beyond all offensive players who play the field. Ortiz has not done that.

 

riight Ortiz as a DH hasnt stepped up above and beyond all offensive players who play the field you say? name one DH you think is better than Ortiz... yeah thats what i thought

 

20 of his 47 HR have either tied or gave the go ahead runs. not to mention he leads the majors with 146 RBIs, but yea his game winning hits and such havent stepped up and byeond for his team. get your head checked.

[yankeessuck013]

How many times have you heard; "And Ortiz does it agian! Another game winning walk-off homerun!" Seriously thats probably like a catch phrase around Boston nowadays. Here in the middle pf yankee country, I have heard a few Yankee fans say this words "And he hits another bases empty meaning less homerun...lol" Now put 2 and 2 together.

[26 to 6]

How many times have you heard; "And Ortiz does it agian! Another game winning walk-off homerun!" Seriously thats probably like a catch phrase around Boston nowadays. Here in the middle pf yankee country, I have heard a few Yankee fans say this words "And he hits another bases empty meaning less homerun...lol" Now put 2 and 2 together.

I wouldnt exactly call Syracuse Yankee Country but thats besides the point...

 

There is no doubt that Ortiz is the hitter of the year, and there is no doubt that he is the most clutch hitter of the past 2 years. There is absolutely no doubt that if you take him out of the Sox lineup they are not even close to where they are today. There are many things that put him above Rodriguez in this debate, but to me defense and baserunning DO matter regardless of how much you guys dont want them to. And another thing, this is a point that Michael KaY has been hyping for the past 2+ weeks; Ortiz sat out that game at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago when Randy Johnson pitched. The reason given was so that he could "rest his back" and there is no problem with resting his back, but Francona said before the game "Tell Joe that Ortiz can hit if he brings in a righty". That to me is backing out. If he was as great and amazing as you guys say he is (and trust me, I acknowledge that he is a great player...or at least hitter) then he should have been in the lineup that day. Bottom line is both of these guys have had GREAT years and both deserve to be iin the running for this award. We just have to wait until the votes are cast and see who the reporters pick.

[CrespoBlows]

I wouldnt exactly call Syracuse Yankee Country but thats besides the point...

 

There is no doubt that Ortiz is the hitter of the year, and there is no doubt that he is the most clutch hitter of the past 2 years. There is absolutely no doubt that if you take him out of the Sox lineup they are not even close to where they are today. There are many things that put him above Rodriguez in this debate, but to me defense and baserunning DO matter regardless of how much you guys dont want them to. And another thing, this is a point that Michael KaY has been hyping for the past 2+ weeks; Ortiz sat out that game at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago when Randy Johnson pitched. The reason given was so that he could "rest his back" and there is no problem with resting his back, but Francona said before the game "Tell Joe that Ortiz can hit if he brings in a righty". That to me is backing out. If he was as great and amazing as you guys say he is (and trust me, I acknowledge that he is a great player...or at least hitter) then he should have been in the lineup that day. Bottom line is both of these guys have had GREAT years and both deserve to be iin the running for this award. We just have to wait until the votes are cast and see who the reporters pick.

 

Wait a minute, isn't a DH a position in the AL? It doesn't matter if he doesn't play the field or not, he plays in the AL, not NL.

[26 to 6]

Wait a minute, isn't a DH a position in the AL? It doesn't matter if he doesn't play the field or not, he plays in the AL, not NL.

wait a minute, didnt I give him all the credit in the world in that kast post? YES I DID

[RedSoxRooter]

Nice grounder error, A-Rod

[26 to 6]

please....you guys have a horrible infield surface, its like playing on Astroturf. Im not making excuses because he certainly should have had that, but it was EXTREMELY tough with how fast the ball was moving.

[yankeessuck013]

please....you guys have a horrible infield surface, its like playing on Astroturf. Im not making excuses because he certainly should have had that, but it was EXTREMELY tough with how fast the ball was moving.

 

Someone's been listening to a little too much Michael Kay....

[riverside sluggers]

what the hell are you talking about? the turf was changed before opening day and is nowhere near like astro turf (big difference). even mueller had said his defense has improved greatly this season partly from the new turf they put in

[26 to 6]

what the hell are you talking about? the turf was changed before opening day and is nowhere near like astro turf (big difference). even mueller had said his defense has improved greatly this season partly from the new turf they put in

what the hell am I talking about? Damn you always come off pretty agressive. anyway, just look at the field, it looks pretty bad. I didnt mean that it was EXACTLY like astroturf, but thats a pretty fast infield, watch the play during the highlights and you'll notice how quick that ball got there

 

Someone's been listening to a little too much Michael Kay....

No, someone just happens to agree with him after seeing the play. There is no denying that you guys have a pretty bad infield. Its not that big a deal so lets not escalate this thing...i see it coming already.

[ORS]

It's the field's fault!

 

You've managed to sink to a new low.

[yankeessuck013]

what the hell am I talking about? Damn you always come off pretty agressive. anyway, just look at the field, it looks pretty bad. I didnt mean that it was EXACTLY like astroturf, but thats a pretty fast infield, watch the play during the highlights and you'll notice how quick that ball got there.

 

so I guess we can blame all of renteria's errors on our "bad infield"?

[RedSoxRooter]

so I guess we can blame all of renteria's errors on our "bad infield"?

Ya know, I've been meaning to post that point for a while now, but ARod's error was just an error. There was no bad hop, just a bad glove....

 

Ortiz hits a dinger against RJ tomorrow and the MVP award goes to Papi.

[empirestrikesback26]

i'd give ortez a 20% chance of winning the MVP purely on bias against the yankees. 0% chance of it being a shoo-in.

[Yankees13]

i'd give ortez a 20% chance of winning the MVP purely on bias against the yankees. 0% chance of it being a shoo-in.

Yup A-Rod 4 for 5, Ortez owned by Johnson.

[Yankees13]

Ya know, I've been meaning to post that point for a while now, but ARod's error was just an error. There was no bad hop, just a bad glove....

 

Ortiz hits a dinger against RJ tomorrow and the MVP award goes to Papi.

How did that work out for you?

[yankeessuck013]

Yup A-Rod 4 for 5, Ortez owned by Johnson.

 

whos ortez?

 

ortiz did not get owned

[See Red]

Yup A-Rod 4 for 5, Ortez owned by Johnson.

 

How many of those hits meant anything? Without the HR, you'd have won 7-4.