drewski6

Good for you coming around. Really, the only thing youve done wrong in this entire discussion is not fact check "alt facts Joe". Learn the lesson there. It was always right there for you on google. Its well established that there was a communication breakdown, that the red sox deferred a lot more than the cubs offer, that the red sox wouldnt include the ntc, that the negotiations got testy, that breslow accused bregman of bluffing when breslow was dead wrong, that bregman was in disbelief at how dense breslow was being. That the sox incorrectly thought they had Bregman in the bag. All of that happened and its been confirmed 5x and it took you a little while to get here. Because Joe didnt want to believe it and he was using tactics like "but were you there" (I dont need to be when 5 trustworthy sources are saying it). Haitians are not eating your cats, Alex Pretti didnt draw his gun, and yes Breslow can be and was being dense. To deny it or cast doubt is unreasonable. Just like MVP said its the only account we have (other than Joe just making stuff up cuz that what he does) and its been corroborated 5x. Joe Brady is a full blown lying Elon Musk worshipping clownboy. Now moving on to you, nothing else youve said is unreasonable (other than temp believing Joes version of events). Its possible that even had Breslow been a good communicator the sox would have still not provided the NTC and that would have always been a deal breaker. Not unreasonable. Despite how it broke down, Im glad we didnt overpay for Bregman and I think we would have had to overpay. Not unreasonable. And I especially liked your comment that if all of this is true (it is) it doesnt bother me on Bregman but Im worried about future negotiations. Thats more than reasonable, its wise and insightful. You are a good poster and you have good takes. Joe is a cancer though

Yup!!

Missed this, TY This is exactly what is going on

Exactly correct, but my "yes and" is a question Why? Why defer so much more. Your theory is that they really didnt want him like a guy who cant dump a girl so he starts acting bad to get her to dump him. Okay, maybe. But I have heard that the red sox thought their offer was best when it clearly wasnt and they were just too dense to read the room or open their ears

My only issue with this is all of your disclaimers like "if true" or that you dont know When I have seen Alex Speier, Buster Olney, Tyler Milliken, Jarred Carrabis, AJ Pierzynski all put their names on the line to say something along the lines of yes, Breslow made the negotiations more frustrating than they needed to be and made it easier for Bregman to take the cubs offer. Beyond that, your post here is very reasonable. And it may be too far to call it a botch. But this happened: If "bay all accounts" he did that, he made a mistake, but that does not mean he "botched" a signing that could never have happened, unless Breggie dropped the no trade clause. One could argue the animosity Brez caused made it more difficult for Breggie to drop the no trade clause demand, and maybe there is truth to that, and indirectly, that was a botch. And the only reason I can think of why you have a good take on what happened (your post is a good take), but you are not fully willing to accept that this happened is because you are trusting Joe over Google. And thats silly. Always fact check but ESPECIALLY when it comes from Joe Brady and/or Twitter.

Ive seen people with spending problems force themselves to save by preferring their money not be released to them at once. Ive seen people buy a house because it forces you to invest and build for the future. THey are flawed, but not necessarily dumb (people who would prefer the money later). They are also a small minority.

The argument is Joe Brady saying that we dont know what happened because he wants to sow doubt and manipulate, when we know the gist of what happened The Sox camp thought the negotiations were going better than they were, and thought they had the best offer on the table for Bregman and they were wrong. And not only were they wrong, they were brash , condescending and insulting, and practically dared Bregman to take the cubs offer while they were simultaneously courting Bregman and this is exactly what I (and you) agreed on in the past, that Breslow - the good probably even still outweighs the bad, but hes not perfect and a weakness is communication and brashness Joe Brady can pretend and manipulate he may even get a few gullible gullies, but at this point there is a pretty clear picture of what happened - the sox revolved their off season around Bregman , thats obvious. While they were dead wrong on if their offer was tops (it wasnt) and they doubled and tripled down and they look like damn fools. Moonslav's - yeah, but i think its better this way is fine. Im fine with that. And it may absolutely turn out to be a blessing in disguise that Bregman is a cub.

My girls a smokeshow

JB marries an ugly women and pretends its by choice

zzzzzzzzz please refrain from going down his rabbit holes, you must have realized how boring this post was when you made it. You prob almost didnt hit send. You do a good job managing this forum, but JoeBradys lameness is going to kill it Nobody wants to analyze or digest joe bradys bad real estate advice. The dude is still working in his 80s cuz he has to and acts like hes mr accomplished.

"You guys are getting straight clowned, by 1945 strolls out of bed and clowns all of you Old Red." What this means, nerd, is that you may have noticed, that Im generally new school in my sports beliefs, because I stay up on trends and usually seek to figure out why sports evolve, and usually when they do - they evolve for a reason. So youve probably seen me talk condescendingly about what I consider to be "old school" outlooks. Old Red and I have disagreed on what I perceive to be some extensions of this, e.g. positional versatility vs having a true 2b or true 3b or true 1b. Which is fine, we dont have to agree on everything. But I was impressed to see that Old Red has the clarity and wisdom to not talk absolute nonsense like you do on here literally every day. Everything out of Joe Bradys mouth is wrong/foolish/stupid/fascist: JB: We cant compare RS offer to Bregman because we dont know the deferrals Actuality: Its well known that the RS offer was loser base and contained significantly more deferrals than Cubs so we do know the RS offer was weaker JB: Billie Eilish pretends to be gay for attention and thats why she told a room for billionaires what they wanted to here Actuality: this makes negative sense and the context was that Billie Eilish had just told a bunch of billionaires that billionaires suck JB: Well if it wasnt for billionaires , I wouldnt have my precious cell phone (what?) On a day when a journalist was killed in a terror attack- JB: Im incapable of having sympathy for snowflake journalists In this particular case: JB: Nobody knows what happened Actuality: AJ P , Buster Olney, Tyler Milliken, Jared Carabis, and Alex Speier are all giving a similar account Its weird because its all out there, but I s'pose that Joe Clownboy Brady has buffooned this place up so much that people have forgotten how to google

Old Red KOs Moonslav

Fine. We know that the Red Sox offer contained heavy deferments and was widely believed to be well below the cubs offer in discounted present value, but you are correct that without knowing the exact amount deferred, we cannot know if the cubs offer was much much much better or merely much much better, so what you are saying is technically true and Im so glad that you made a whole post distinguishing this. Youve bested me again with your genius intellect

1. Nobody wants your bad real estate advice or your boring analogies 2. You guys are getting straight clowned, by 1945 strolls out of bed and clowns all of you Old Red. Your story would be cute if it happened, but it didnt. By literally all accounts (take that moon) , Breslow was screaming "youre bluffing" at Bregman while Breg walked out the door laughing. This is Alex Speiers account, AJ Pierzynskis account, Buster Olneys account, that the red sox were confident their offer would prevail. It wasnt that they had drawn a line at something like $164,386,409.93 and not one penny further. Would be cute. Not what happened. They were super confident that Bregman was bluffing and when told them that they were about to lose out, they were like double-down, make the offer worse, more deferred. Hes bluffffffing. Bregman walked out the door, and Breslow looked at the dude sitting next to him and said "he's bluffing, right? right?" Now you wanna convince me , Hugh, that the silly offer to Alonso wasnt to stay within an amount where they could still get breg on top? You wanna convince me that the offer stood on its own? Okay, you prob did. THe problem with that, is that I now believe its even more evidence that Clownvis has no feel for the market. Point 1: See bregman (hes bluffffffingggg). Point 2: this offer to alonso, what was it 100m? Cmon. Thats foolishness. And maybe Breslow is foolish enough to think it had a prayer. But lets get one thing straight, the league is not filled with all these "well, thats what I thought he was worth" offers. Some , sure. But its not like GMs are running around making low ball offers because thats what THEY think the player is worth. The league would be chaotic if that was true. GMs make offers they think will get accepted, and maybe Breslow is this far out to lunch. Maybe thats why we couldnt sign a free agent batter. But thats just more noob GM'ing by your noob GM. More stiffness from the king of stiff. BTW , I watched the bregman / cubs press conference, and I coulda swore I heard Breslow in the background yelling "hes blufffinnnngggggg"

Oh well that settles it.

No, I want them to not revolve their entire offseason plan around crossing their fingers that Bregman accepts an offer while also challenging him to take other offers. Boras might have tried something similar with Bellinger, but I doubt the Yankees acted as noob as Breslow did.

He turned it down because the sox offer was monstrously deferred , that and the no trade clause. He said this. Will you be right, just once?

See, this guy gets it

I agree that there are some details that are inconsistent, but I dont think its reasonable to dismiss the whole story, or even the gist/meat of it. A story that has been widely circulated and partially corroborated My hunch is either there was only one offer, or the second offer was either made soon after the initial or right before Bregman cut communication. What is consistent across like 5 sources, is that the sox really thought they had him. And they really did operate this offseason in a way that coincides with this. This also fits a now well established pattern of communication breakdowns involving Breslow. Im not saying that he's done an overall bad job, but this is just another chapter in the Breslow folding his arms across his chest and being confrontational with demeanor and body language.

[Olney] The Red Sox believed they were going to land Bregman with their 5-year, $165 million offer. Including his ‘25 deal, they would’ve paid him $205m over six years, w deferrals. Real disappointment in the organization today.

According to Speier, the Red Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer and were reluctant to move aggressively early, wary of “bidding against themselves.”

Well, I can certainly appreciate that if you didnt want him at 175m/deferred down to 150m (ish) present day value with a NTC that you probably wouldnt care much how /why the breakdown happened.

Breslow made it very easy for Bregman to sign with the cubs by being dense and annoying. Thats the last thing you want to do. You want to make Bregman feel like hes wanted/welcomed and almost betraying his teammates by moving on. The entire time Breslow was revolving his offseason plans around Bregman, while he was simultaneously implying Bregman was lying/exaggerating his market and daring him to take other offers if he had em. Thats jerkness getting in the way. Breslow gets a lot of credit and leash for getting Crochet, but hes not perfect and his communication skills need improvement. That doesnt mean hes a bad GM. But Ive been saying this even before the Bregman communication breakdown, and here we are. There are no disputing accounts what happened, no denials, no counter-narratives (this is the red sox, they love a counter narrative). All we have is 4 accounts, all agreeing that there was a communication breakdown.

“The Sox felt confident in their five-year, $165 million offer, but internally, wanted to avoid bidding against themselves rather than upping their bid at the start of the year in an effort to close out a deal.” The agreement with the Cubs was presented to the Sox as a fait accompli, without a chance to counter, per @alexspeier . Look, how do we really know that George Washington was the first president, neither of us were there. And how do we really know that theearth is round. I mean sure, its what weve been told but how do we reallllllllly know You can cast doubt on anything, and its a tactic, BUT alex speier tyler milliken , aj pierzynski, and carrabis are all painting a similar picture, and it fits a pattern we've seen from breslow and i think you are being incredulous when you doubt it. What happened was there was an initial offer (we dont know much about it) that was eventually upped to the 165m w heavy deferrals without a NTC. And by the team this revised offer crossed Bregman's desk , he was already quite frustrated with Breslow and this offer just frustrated him further and he cut off contact. It might be the max that you would pay, it might be more, but all along the people telling breslow that they had bregmans market wrong were proven right. Because the cubs offer was significantly better. And we've seen breslow struggle to communicate, and we've seen him be flat unlikeable , and what alex speier is adding is that breslow was never given a third chance after the 165m offer (second chance). Thats bad GM. Not because he refused to give Bregman a blank check, but because he took himself out of the running and his pompous attitude led to a communication breakdown. So we dont know if breslow is mister line in the sand, value-hawk. But what we do know is that he struggles at communicating and the negotiations ended with bregman and boras getting fed up with breslow and ending em, not necessarily because breslow knew that a penny more would be too much and wow we should applaud him for that.

The funny part is I dont even care. Im just here to tell you that people using - "hey, we just dont know" Is something that people have been using as tactic to obfuscate and i see through it. In this case, theres a lot of people lining up to tell us what happened, and its not what you wish happened Maybe if you keep wishing though.