drewski6

haha, motorola

Fair enough on your points re: your doubt that people would be questioning why no question had one not been given. My main point is this: "I don't really care what they do with Rafaela. Trade him, bench him, make him the starting CFer." A guy you can live with at CF for $6m just doesnt scream like "why would they do this?" ALso - I understand you saying that they are cheap and youd rather have the 6m in that context. But sometimes its what you buy that makes you cheap - you arent not cheap just because you bought something. For example, my gal called me cheap for buying a cellphone that wasnt an iphone or a samsung. Still cost me $400. Im not cheap, but this was a cheap purchase (even though i spent $400) because the alternative was a more expensive phone. I dont care what BTV says (and Im not even sure what it says) thats not a hard to move contract or a negative value contract. Someone would take it and give you something for it.

MVP, with all due respect - I think you are overestimating how much $6m/yr buys you these days. A defensive fourth OF for $6m/yr may be an asset.

Sure, but thats not exactly mutually exclusive with what Kimmi/Moon are saying. I understand your position that player-types have varying market values and defense first guys generally dont command the same dollars, and just looking at WAR/$ can be misleading because it matters how that WAR is being generated (from a replaceability perspective, from a market value perspective). You can look at the deal and be puzzled. But this does not necessarily mean that a) the best move at this point in time is to move Cedanne (not implying you are saying this) or b) that had we not extended him, the lack of extension would have been criticized too (fair or unfair)

whats his ops since the last time you used this template?

(clap) (clap)

propose a mariners trade and he appears, i believe in har--mon-y

In MLB the show (video game), if a pitchers fielding improves, his OVR does as well. Of course not as drastic as if his k/9 or bb/9 improves.

I agree, when in conversations such as this with others , I would phrase it like this (this is just how I would explain it) Its not really about Roman vs Cedanne vs anybody else. Or who might eventually be the odd man out or get squeezed for PT. Its simply about hoarding as much talent as you can for as long as you can. Its not too different from sending down prospect x over prospect y because prospect x has options remaining (and you therefore "can"). Anyone you send down, you can call back up. What you cant do is undo a trade once finalized. Its about putting off decisions that cant be undone. Kind of like how people (generally) dont get surgery until theyve tried physical therapy because surgery cannot be undone. Ive noticed a lot of people have this desire to have things figured out. "This player is going to be our 3b, this player our 2b. This player will be traded" Almost like (some) people have a need for tidiness. Everyone has a set role (or at least a label, e.g. "third baseman of the future") and if multiple options are clogging that up, a move should be made so its "cleaner". But I embrace the volatility. Because injuries happen, depth is called upon, breakouts come from unlikely sources, and cant miss prospects can flop. And options and depth are a good thing. So hoard em while you can. Eventually the system forces your hand (e.g. player x is out of options) , but until it does - hoard away. And if that prevets us from knowing exactly when and where guys will play down the line, I honestly just dont care. Versatility and options over everyone having tidy set roles (for me anyways).

It starts with a bonafide ace on a cheap contract AND an above average (at least) every day player (thats not a Catcher). Anything else , I hang up. I think. Maybe there is something alt to this that can make me bite, but it doesnt feel realistic. Im not looking to do it, and I dont really think its something worth spending energy and time on. He's the closest thing we have at present to a franchise player.

Ive never done this (Im revisioning my past revisionings)

Maybe he thought that if it wasnt out of the park he was going to get thrown out at first, regardless

Interesting

Im willing to give Cedanne more time. Some of the reasons are: Im feeling that Duran's defensive improvements last year may not stick and he may revert back into a LF as opposed to someone playing LF because you have a superior defensive CF in CF. Another reason is Anthonys shoulder. Things that have nothing to do with Cedanne himself.

Cedanne himself isnt the only variable in how long Cedanne sticks around for. For example, how is Duran doing defensively and are you comfy right now with him in CF? What if that changes (you either become confident in Duran playing CF when you arent or flip it) ....point is , it impacts Cedannes value to the team. Cedanne isnt in a vacuum (apologies if this comes across as obvious, not my intent to patronize)

Thats the opposite of what I meant. Duran > best closer in league + best catcher in league. Certainly best closer/catcher combo on same team. Now if you split it up so we could maybe get Mason Miller but a better catcher than who is on the As, maybe. But I honestly, I prob still turn it down. Catchers are mostly JAGs and closers are too volatile. Look at Devin Williams this year. I see Duran as our second most important player (behind Crochet)

It depends about which one you are talking about and the context. For example, some of the worst takes Ive ever read on this forum, Ive read today. From good posters too. Anybody, anywhere talking about getting rid of Duran, and saying (for example): I wouldnt trade Duran for the best closer and the best catcher together in a 2 for 1. Thats not overrating (and I dont mean because it was me who said it). Because hes awesome (and I was on board with trading him last year). Different sport , I know, but I hvae this friend who just wouldnt give up on Mac Jones. He blamed everyone else and wanted to keep giving Mac chance after Mac. Thats prob an example of overrating his own guys.

Not for the best closer and the best catcher in the league.

Ive experienced the opposite with my friends. But I understand there is a contingent who do not have patience. But my friends were jumping for joy over james paxton's return, telling me that verdugo was good, and all this other "had fallen in love with mediocrity" takes. And calling Verdugo mediocre is generous. People get impatient, but people also tend to overrate their own guys.

sounds like a variation of "just asking questions"

schwarber carried the team on his back for september and october. You just dont let that guy walk when he wants 4 @ 20 (it might have even been a little less). Betts was obviously a bigger mistake but im talking about when bloom lost me (personally) the second time. He had won me over a bit after Betts because I liked how he signed and flipped guys like Pillar, Moreland. That losing me over again, started with not getting schwarber and got worse due to deadline inactivity

He also got red freaking hot in that postseason. Also seemed to be well liked by teammates and fans. I couldnt believe how completely disinterested Bloom was, and it was a big turning point for me with Bloom. I really liked Bloom after his first year because he did something that I cant believe isnt done more often. Rebuilding ? Sign a bunch of cheap guys to 1-2 yr deals, and flip the ones that increase their value (see Pillar) for prospects to speed up rebuild.

Not mistakes (multiple), mistake! (singular). Sure there may have been others, but they all fall in line behind the single huge one that he should never ever be forgiven for, that MVP pointed out to you. No f'ing reason to let Schwarber walk.

Im not sure Im happy because my expectations have been lowered (but I dont rule it out) The truth is - they went out and got the 2 players I wanted (Bregman didnt start on the list but he was added to my list after I realized that we werent getting Soto, at the time I also wanted an OF - and Im glad I didnt get that wish)

I think youve been spending a little too much time palling around with Red. No malice directed at either. But having things figured out is fluid. Things that were figured out become unfigured out and things you didnt think could be figured out become figured out. I embrace the redundancy, the options, the fluidity, the depth. Im less of a quality over quantity guy these days, cuz Ive realized you dont ever really know who is going to break out and who is going to bust out. I really like this team, and I know things have been frustrating. But if Devers , Casas , Duran and Houck were all playing like they have been but in a world where we didnt go get Bregman, clear a spot for Campbell (kind of, I know thats a reach but they did keep him up) , get Crochet, get the bullpen guys....We'd be a lot worse off. Im still enthusiastic about this year, and Im enjoying it. ANd I like the fact that there are still some things that are yet to be figured out. It adds to the intrigue ( for me) .