Hugh2

I'd be fine with this.

People do remember that 100 loss teams HAVE had elite elite players on them and that you need 9 guys in a lineup and a few pitchers every single night to win? YOu have to either develop prospects, pay $$$, or trade prospects for MLB quality players. That's it, those are your only 3 options. if you 1. trade away all your prospects for a few players and 2. are unwilling to spend the money then guess what? you're stuck with the team you have. I'm not sure trading prospect capital to fill two holes while opening up four is good for business. If we were the LA Dodgers and I knew Henry would just go out and throw some money at a few guys I'd be more for that.....but we are not the Dodgers.

Mets could really use Duran more than the Diamonbacks and they have some pieces that might entice AZ. Maybe a three way trade with Boston/NY/ARZ is in the works.

If we trade Mayer for Marte we are at the LT line and we still have two infield holes to fill. Absolutely nothing has changed, except your budget. I propose anyone who is advocating for a Marte trade with Mayer most include realistic options for 3B and 1B for the Sox.

I've said this many many many times over but I'm speaking more from the aggregate state of mind, which is why I said 100 Mayers for 100 Martes. the vast majority of those 100 Martes aren't putting up War in their mid 30's that they put up at 30. Guys might get paid for what they did, but its' better business to predict what guys will do. I think most of us here agree that as guys age they get worse and the 33-35 years are some of the most unforgiven when it comes to decline. 100 vs 100. Now from a practical matter, again as I've stated over and over again we have more than one hole in the infield. Trading an infielder for an infielder might be nice if it's an upgrade for a year or two but you have the same EXACT number of holes to fill. I'll reiterate a point I made earlier. The best bet, surest thing we have in our infield is Trevor Story, after him it's Mayer and who else? David Hamilton? I'm all for trading for Marte, but I'm looking to plug up a whole and expand the lineup not just get a slight upgrade at one position.

admittedly I'm not too familiar with Arizonas needs and wants, but I tried to do some online research, minimal but I did look into it. Their biggest needs appear to be Starting pitching, relief pitching, and a first baseman. Maybe Duran makes more sense for another team in another trade, or maybe we can get a three way going with Boston/Arizona and whoever wants Duran.

Yes and then I told you that I don't think they'd want Duran and you said that Bello was still in there to which I replied it's going to take more than that.......because it will.

BTV accepts Brayan Bello/Payton Tolle/Dorian Soto for Ketel Marte

Bello plays the position of pitcher, but Bello for Marte is something entirely different than Bello/Duran for Marte as you suggested. If you're removing Duran you have a lot of value to make up

What do you place those odds on? quantifiable stats and studies outlining the data of thousands of baseball players comparing their war at specific ages noting trends and even more specifically the results for top 25 prospects????????? Or is that just your guy instinct that likes Marte?

The Diamonbacks, if they're not getting someone like Mayer back, almost certainly want pitching.

There's a pretty simple solution for all this. Don't trade Mayer for Marte, trade someone else for Marte.

I was going to respond to your last larger post but I was pretty much going to say exactly what you were responding to here. problem is our infield is all holes and question marks right now. imagine being told a year or two ago our safest bet in the infield was Trevor Story followed by all question marks. If we had less question marks a Mayer for Marte trade is more justified, but you’re filling one hole and opening up another. So there’s really no money saved for other moves at all. You still need a 3B and a 1B and with $15 million less to spend.

Schwarber is a freak of nature, he’s still elite elite for bat speed and exit velocity.

I violently disagree with the statement I’m building around Mayer. im building around Anthony/crochet. Mayer is an ancillary piece I’d trade in the right package. Certainly a player in their mid 30’s is not on a list of players I’d trade him for

Tall, elite extension

Polanco last two years. 0.3 2.6. At ages 30 and 31, and you'd be banking that he'd be worth more ages 32-33 over a kid who was a top 25 prospect in baseball who is going to give you his ages 23-28 seasons? How many guys who fit that profile play better than 2.9 WAR over 6 seasons between ages 23-28? I'd bet it's a very large list. That's sever win now type of moves. Even before factoring in that the money is not the same, Mayer is under team control.

Yes, but you're getting Bo Bichette for 5 years in his prime before he even gets to Martes age. Typically the argument for paying for those down years is you make up for it at the front of the contract. Giving up talent to buy the entire back half of a contract is an entirely different thing. But you're right, Bo is likely a pipe dream.

But who are you going to add? if that's your budget you're still not adding Bregman and you're down two starting middle infielders if you trade Mayer away. So what is your infield? Okamoto/Story/Marte/Casas? are is that any better or less riskier than Mayer/Story/Bichette/Casas or Bregman/Story/Mayer/Casas? I'd also argue that this would be the exact opposite of "in a vaccum" because in a vaccum I'm willing to make decisions sometimes that aren't winning moves in the aggregate E.G. lets bunt or steal a base. In a vacuum I'd be willing to trade away youth for proven veteran talent.....in a vaccum.

Add. I'm not against adding elite talent and taking chances, even on the aging curve. This is why I've advocated for the signing of a guy like Bo Bichette. I'd rather overpay for Bo Bichette a little bit than save a few bucks on Marte, pay for his decline, and give up Mayer/Early

I'll still stick to my guns, that if you take 100 Marcel Mayers and compare their age 23-27 seasons to 100 Ketel Martes age 33-37 seasons, the 100 Mayers are going to win every single time. Does that not mean some of those 100 Mayers will be out of the sport in a year or two and a complete bust? does it also not mean that Some Martes will continue producing at an elite level and staring down an invite into the hall of fame down the road? yes both are true, but the data clearly shows us how things turn up in the aggregate. There's nothing wrong with wanting to trade Mayer for Marte, but don't expect 1/2 of the people out there to agree with you that it's a good strategy to do so. Personally I see that as a "win now" move where I would personally like to see the Sox trying to win for the next decade and not just the next 2-3 years. There's a ton of data out there about the war guys in their mid 20's put up vs. guys in their mid 30's and the reality is Mayer is at an age where value skyrockets and Marte is at an age where it plummets. Again I'm not going to compare 1-1 because I don't have a crystal ball and neither do any of you but I'll take 100 23 year olds careers over 100 33 year olds (from 33 on) every single time. And I'll be right

Apparently Breslow has a type and Bennett is it.

So Polanco?

So Mayer

What would you rather have. All else equal and zero other moves being made. Marcelo Mayer for 6 years under team control or Polanco for 2?