Hugh2

So what you're saying is that you agree with me and the Red Sox on player development. You don't move a guy to a new position until he is on the cusp of his MLB career. Now that very well could be Moncada Towards the end of this season early next but the guy was JUST promoted from A ball.

So because MAYBE his bat is close to ready now we should move him to LF/3B because the teams needs him because HE MIGHT be better than those options at the MLB level a month or two down the road. Yet you ignore the argument, which is backed up by how every MLB team handles prospects, that players shouldn't learn new positions and levels at the same time while developing. Also, when we've thrown a new level and position at a player at the same time it has seemed to really set them back. We rushed JBJ up and stuck him in LF and that could have contributed to screwing him up for 2 years, Bogaerts at 3B to SS and his 2014. How do you not now that moving Moncada off of 2nd slows down his bat? because that seems to be the premise of why that is not done in player development. If that's the case then he is NOT going to be MLB ready this year. You're still not convincing me why your plan is better than one of MLBs best at player development.

So how come no teams do what you are advocating? what is it you know that they do not?

Fact, the Sox are better at developing players than me or you....stick to the plan and stay the course. You're talking to the wrong people here, you should be talking to those who develop the players. Sure, this is a talk forum but you're trying to convince me and others why your plan would be better than the Sox. You're not convincing me otherwise. We can't just do it because we could assume everything would work out great at it would help the MLB team. Again that's not how player development works. Teams are literally almost never doing what you're talking about for a reason. It is detrimental to a players development You can ignore that all you want why trying to justify why the Sox should do what you want them to do. But I will continue to advocate proper player development and good standards. I don't care what is happening at the MLB level. If the team needs a LFer now and Moncada isn't ready then you go out and get a LFer you don't force the issue and rush a guys bat AND his glove.

How do you know what Moncadas offensive value is at the MLB level? milb is tiered for a reason. It's not just fantasy, the jump from each level is significant and real, and even if an elite guy can move up to the next level and still mash doesn't mean they can do it by moving up two. Moncada JUST moved up from A ball. The last time we rushed a really really good player who had very little time in AA ball it appeared to screw him up for a few years (JBJ)

Still you are using the current situation of the Sox to justify breaking away from normal player development procedures. It should be all about the player and whats best for their development. When they are MLB ready then you can make it all about the team needs.

Ok, so why is Moncada the exception? And how do we not know Betts and Bogaerts wouldn't have grown slower if they tried learning a new position in the minors??? We don't.

Well, if the Sox move around money and offer him above slot it's really NOT on them if he were to ask for money that would put them above the 5% Reportedly 5th rounder Mike Shawaryn is asking for above slot, I'm thinking if anything this could screw up their offer to Groome. They moved enough money around to easily offer 4-4.1 million but if they have to go above slot for Shawaryn I don't know what they do. Reportedly Groome is asking (well his agent is) 4.4 from the Sox. Unless they are offering him below slot and not budging, it's really not on them. Worst case scenario is they get the #13 pick and much more pool money in a deeper draft. I want Groome, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

MLb ready after less than one week above A ball????

Imagine if we moved Bogaerts off of SS because Iggy was there and people thought he'd end up there anyways???? I mean we could find examples one way or the other all day, the fact remains this is player development gold standard for a reason.

Teams don't switch a players position while they are developing, they do so when they are or close to MLB ready. This means you won't see Moncada move until either he reaches AAA or he's had at least a month or two in Portland with success.

So you hypothetically disagree with this but you just made the case against it? I'm not going to go against what is widely held to be best industry practices by everyone in baseball because something could go wrong. Something could always go wrong even with the most optimal sure fire strategy. I trust the Sox now what they are doing.

Well, I personally wouldn't tinker with the Sox player development philosophy. I think they are doing an excellent job, you don't move guys for a reason as been stated by me, others, the Red Sox, scouts, and more. We can repackage the argument any way we'd like but player development just doesn't work like that.

I understand your concerns but that's not how player development necessarily works. I can see how it makes sense from our perspective as a fan as we try to imagine a star studded home grown team down the road but you let guys play their natural position and let them outplay it. It was the right thing to do to develop Swihart as a catcher, and perhaps the team has made a mistake (I'd say they did) in switching him too soon but they did so out of necessity. There are just as many times were a player easily makes the transition to another position too though however. And as I said before it's not optimal to put the burden on a player of learning a new position while also developing his bat. Teams put players where they believe they profile best, not where they may fit the team better several years down the road. It's a similar argument in terms of drafting for need. You don't draft a catcher if you need a catcher when there is a much better pitcher at your pick...you can always trade one for the other down the road. Once a guy like Moncada has moved up the later and has a bat more developed it is much less detrimental to his development to move him to another position. Also, a ton could happen in a year and going ahead a few more years can be much more unpredictable. A player could severely decline or get injured or even become a trade chip. Us as fans often look at player development from the top down, but in reality in should be much more from the bottom to the top. Not that it couldn't work out great to move a guy like Moncada now, but I think the Sox system of player development as they do it as good if not better than any other team (with position players at least)

A player should never have to learn a new position and a new level at the same time. Teams almost always let a player establish himself at one position first before moving them, a team will never move a guy like Moncada because of a guy like Pedey until they have too....right now they don't have too. The Sox are also notorious (as are most teams) for waiting for a guy to reach AAA to switch positions. At other times it happens at the MLB level.

Yup, he makes his debut tonight.

Ultimately I don't think we should see Benintendi this year, but if he's still mashing his way through the system and LF is still a huge hole I think the kid will end up just forcing the issue.

Benintendi has been in AA for a month now. He struggled his first couple weeks but has succeed in the last couple. Through his last 14 of 29 games in Portland he is batting .291/.333/.564 And his BABIP has actually been a decent amount lower throughout this time as well. Although I do agree the jump to AA is one of the hardest, and I also agree that Moncada shouldn't be moved off of position until his bat is more MLB ready. However I think it looks like Benintendi has made the adjustment in Portland to date.

As of right now the max bonus the Sox could reasonably sign Groome to is 4,065,670. I suspect they will make a run at at least someone past the 10th round like Nick Quintana so if the Sox are going to offer at least 4 million they will have to save some more money and the rest of their top 10 guys certainly do look like slot signings to me. But we shall see.

You also don't blow up your whole draft with a guy like Groome, you also don't go over your bonus pool and lose out on top draft picks for the next 2 years just to sign one guy. I have zero doubt the Sox will offer a guy like Groome an over slot deal. But they just don't have the bonus pool money to offer him the $5 million plus he was initially seeking.

Got to give DD and the Sox brass credit. They are demonstrating they understand the concept of a sunk cost this season. Between Clay, Pablo, and Castillo they aren't afraid to take away guys jobs regardless of their salary. I suspect Hanley would be benched too if he was performing horribly.

http://www.soxprospects.com/dh.htm Here is a good link for those following the signings.

I meant no one as talented as him has fallen to the Sox before, at least not in my recent memory. Guys fall all the time though. Reportedly he had a price tag of 4-5 million. With the underslot signings the Sox have already made + the 5% overage they could offer him 4 million right now. Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic but I wouldn't be surprised if they could sign him for even lower than that. 3.6-3.8 million. I'm sure the Sox have a price in mind, and will tell him take it or leave it at the deadline. They aren't going to blow up their draft for the next 2 years for one kid.

In the draft overall or the Sox top choices? Well, I suppose it doesn't matter because the answer is generally the same. Top draft picks almost always sign and I can't remember the last time the Sox failed to sign a top draft pick. There is a level of communication between teams and the guys they draft. I don't think they draft a guy with a top 10 pick unless they are sure they can sign them. Perhaps Groome is different because this is a very unique situation. I don't think anyone as talented as him as even fallen before so perhaps this is a rare case where they draft him regardless of the sign ability because the ceiling is so high? Worst case scenario is they get pick#13 next year in what is supposedly a very deep draft. And they did sign a bunch of top 100 guys past round 10 presumable as back up guys to throw money at if Groome doesn't sign. Still.....I think they will and should sign Groome.

There's a lot of different angles to look at "perspective" in the minors. Benintendis OPS was lower a few weeks ago in what will of amounted to a few bad weeks at the end of the year. He's doubled his numbers the past couple weeks. Yes it's a SSS but everything is in the minors because you can never hit too well at a level to have a very large sample size because you will inevitably be promoted. Age, making adjustments, fatigue, slumps...there are so many factors to consider. Numbers are the end game, but sometimes you have to throw the numbers out the window and look at the player. That's what you do with a guy like Benintendi, unless he ends up busting the numbers will come and we see that time and time again with elite prospects; given enough time they adjust and start owning a level.