Hugh2

It wouldn't but giving a guy only 3 games above A ball or less reps at multiple positions would.

Ok fair enough, so lets revisit this position in a month from now if Moncada is absolutely mashing it in Portland. FWIW, everything I've read about his defense has eluded that his errors have come on balls on the ground. He gets to and makes fantastic defensive plays on whats in the air, and the kid has a strong arm too....sounds like LF/RF might be a better position for him than 3B. But that's speculation.

No I'm not saying that you're saying that. You're confusing outcome with strategy. It's like putting Mike Trout on 1B to get to the next hitter and he hits a HR, it might be the right decision with the wrong outcome. You can't completely contradict standard player development procedure and then claim you're not talking about radical change because that is EXACTLY what you're doing. I can call an apple a duck but it's still an apple. You're completely contradicting yourself here.

No offense Moon but you're kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure where you stand. Now you're trying make it sound more like you agree with us, but earlier in this thread it sounded like you were advocating moving guys off position earlier in their development. That's a bad ideal, it doesn't happend and it shouldn't happen. How do you even know he would make a good 3B??? what I've heard from a lot of scouts is they think his skills would transition better to the outfield. Regardless it doesn't matter, if his bat is still developing you don't switch him off position. It made it sound earlier that you are advocating making a guy develop his bat and switch positions at the same time. You don't do that, that is a horrible ideal with the only caveat being when a guy first is indroduced to pro ball or you move a guy from starting pitching to the bullpen.

So what you're saying is that you agree with me and the Red Sox on player development. You don't move a guy to a new position until he is on the cusp of his MLB career. Now that very well could be Moncada Towards the end of this season early next but the guy was JUST promoted from A ball.

So because MAYBE his bat is close to ready now we should move him to LF/3B because the teams needs him because HE MIGHT be better than those options at the MLB level a month or two down the road. Yet you ignore the argument, which is backed up by how every MLB team handles prospects, that players shouldn't learn new positions and levels at the same time while developing. Also, when we've thrown a new level and position at a player at the same time it has seemed to really set them back. We rushed JBJ up and stuck him in LF and that could have contributed to screwing him up for 2 years, Bogaerts at 3B to SS and his 2014. How do you not now that moving Moncada off of 2nd slows down his bat? because that seems to be the premise of why that is not done in player development. If that's the case then he is NOT going to be MLB ready this year. You're still not convincing me why your plan is better than one of MLBs best at player development.

So how come no teams do what you are advocating? what is it you know that they do not?

Fact, the Sox are better at developing players than me or you....stick to the plan and stay the course. You're talking to the wrong people here, you should be talking to those who develop the players. Sure, this is a talk forum but you're trying to convince me and others why your plan would be better than the Sox. You're not convincing me otherwise. We can't just do it because we could assume everything would work out great at it would help the MLB team. Again that's not how player development works. Teams are literally almost never doing what you're talking about for a reason. It is detrimental to a players development You can ignore that all you want why trying to justify why the Sox should do what you want them to do. But I will continue to advocate proper player development and good standards. I don't care what is happening at the MLB level. If the team needs a LFer now and Moncada isn't ready then you go out and get a LFer you don't force the issue and rush a guys bat AND his glove.

How do you know what Moncadas offensive value is at the MLB level? milb is tiered for a reason. It's not just fantasy, the jump from each level is significant and real, and even if an elite guy can move up to the next level and still mash doesn't mean they can do it by moving up two. Moncada JUST moved up from A ball. The last time we rushed a really really good player who had very little time in AA ball it appeared to screw him up for a few years (JBJ)

Still you are using the current situation of the Sox to justify breaking away from normal player development procedures. It should be all about the player and whats best for their development. When they are MLB ready then you can make it all about the team needs.

Ok, so why is Moncada the exception? And how do we not know Betts and Bogaerts wouldn't have grown slower if they tried learning a new position in the minors??? We don't.

Well, if the Sox move around money and offer him above slot it's really NOT on them if he were to ask for money that would put them above the 5% Reportedly 5th rounder Mike Shawaryn is asking for above slot, I'm thinking if anything this could screw up their offer to Groome. They moved enough money around to easily offer 4-4.1 million but if they have to go above slot for Shawaryn I don't know what they do. Reportedly Groome is asking (well his agent is) 4.4 from the Sox. Unless they are offering him below slot and not budging, it's really not on them. Worst case scenario is they get the #13 pick and much more pool money in a deeper draft. I want Groome, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

MLb ready after less than one week above A ball????

Imagine if we moved Bogaerts off of SS because Iggy was there and people thought he'd end up there anyways???? I mean we could find examples one way or the other all day, the fact remains this is player development gold standard for a reason.

Teams don't switch a players position while they are developing, they do so when they are or close to MLB ready. This means you won't see Moncada move until either he reaches AAA or he's had at least a month or two in Portland with success.

So you hypothetically disagree with this but you just made the case against it? I'm not going to go against what is widely held to be best industry practices by everyone in baseball because something could go wrong. Something could always go wrong even with the most optimal sure fire strategy. I trust the Sox now what they are doing.

Well, I personally wouldn't tinker with the Sox player development philosophy. I think they are doing an excellent job, you don't move guys for a reason as been stated by me, others, the Red Sox, scouts, and more. We can repackage the argument any way we'd like but player development just doesn't work like that.

I understand your concerns but that's not how player development necessarily works. I can see how it makes sense from our perspective as a fan as we try to imagine a star studded home grown team down the road but you let guys play their natural position and let them outplay it. It was the right thing to do to develop Swihart as a catcher, and perhaps the team has made a mistake (I'd say they did) in switching him too soon but they did so out of necessity. There are just as many times were a player easily makes the transition to another position too though however. And as I said before it's not optimal to put the burden on a player of learning a new position while also developing his bat. Teams put players where they believe they profile best, not where they may fit the team better several years down the road. It's a similar argument in terms of drafting for need. You don't draft a catcher if you need a catcher when there is a much better pitcher at your pick...you can always trade one for the other down the road. Once a guy like Moncada has moved up the later and has a bat more developed it is much less detrimental to his development to move him to another position. Also, a ton could happen in a year and going ahead a few more years can be much more unpredictable. A player could severely decline or get injured or even become a trade chip. Us as fans often look at player development from the top down, but in reality in should be much more from the bottom to the top. Not that it couldn't work out great to move a guy like Moncada now, but I think the Sox system of player development as they do it as good if not better than any other team (with position players at least)

A player should never have to learn a new position and a new level at the same time. Teams almost always let a player establish himself at one position first before moving them, a team will never move a guy like Moncada because of a guy like Pedey until they have too....right now they don't have too. The Sox are also notorious (as are most teams) for waiting for a guy to reach AAA to switch positions. At other times it happens at the MLB level.

Yup, he makes his debut tonight.

Ultimately I don't think we should see Benintendi this year, but if he's still mashing his way through the system and LF is still a huge hole I think the kid will end up just forcing the issue.

Benintendi has been in AA for a month now. He struggled his first couple weeks but has succeed in the last couple. Through his last 14 of 29 games in Portland he is batting .291/.333/.564 And his BABIP has actually been a decent amount lower throughout this time as well. Although I do agree the jump to AA is one of the hardest, and I also agree that Moncada shouldn't be moved off of position until his bat is more MLB ready. However I think it looks like Benintendi has made the adjustment in Portland to date.

As of right now the max bonus the Sox could reasonably sign Groome to is 4,065,670. I suspect they will make a run at at least someone past the 10th round like Nick Quintana so if the Sox are going to offer at least 4 million they will have to save some more money and the rest of their top 10 guys certainly do look like slot signings to me. But we shall see.

You also don't blow up your whole draft with a guy like Groome, you also don't go over your bonus pool and lose out on top draft picks for the next 2 years just to sign one guy. I have zero doubt the Sox will offer a guy like Groome an over slot deal. But they just don't have the bonus pool money to offer him the $5 million plus he was initially seeking.

Got to give DD and the Sox brass credit. They are demonstrating they understand the concept of a sunk cost this season. Between Clay, Pablo, and Castillo they aren't afraid to take away guys jobs regardless of their salary. I suspect Hanley would be benched too if he was performing horribly.