Hugh2

That is an INSANELY fair question to ask. Now who is being hyperbolic???? We currently have $17.81 space below the first cap. Adding Marte puts us around $23 below the second. https://soxprospects.com/payroll.htm

I don't care who the names are as long as we are trading from a position of strength to fill a position of need. That's just good business.

It was said, I also don't believe anybody is going back and re-reading every post on this thread. It was said I responded. It's really a mute point. If you're going to say that no one is saying then ok I'll concede that point.

That's not the point I was trying to make. You can switch out the names to fit with what they want, you can bring in a 3rd team, you can even switch up your target to another player not named Marte. My point is you keep Mayer to play 3B/2B and if you can trade for a guy like Marte you plug him in the other hole.

What power Bat are you going to add on top of $241 million that will keep the Sox below the second luxury tax threshold??????

And Casas is your 1B? who....may not even be ready be opening day. We need infielders way way way way more than starting pitching. Grey IS YOUR #2. Why can't we just trade for an infielder without trading away Mayer?

To be fully transparent at some point this offseason I mixed up my Martes as well

Here's another way solidify my position. Trading Marcelo Mayer + Kyson WItherspoon for Ketel Marte = No Bueno Trading Tolle/Abreu and Dorian Soto for Ketel Marte = Mucho Bueno.

I violently disagree with this comment.

I'm not against trading prospects, I'm against opening up holes to get a guy. Once people identify someone they like and become willing to just trade whatever to get them I consider that putting "all" the chips in. I'm speaking in the aggregate here against many different comments and things said I'm not specifcally trying to take a single posters argument down so I don't think that is a strawman either as I have not created a situation that doesn't exist but rather commented on someone elses proposed trade, nor have I exxaggerated any situation. Trading a young cost controlled guy who fills in a hole you need is not the type of move that is "all in" and I will continue to say it's rather irresponsible when you have plenty of trade chips. If the Sox are willing, they can get Marte OR someone else without trade Mayer. You need Marte (or someone like him) PLUS Mayer next year.

I suppose that may be a little too over zealous on my part. I’m not sure what’s considered elite but maybe above 90%%% Marte is in the 85% so let’s critique my statement and say he has well above average batting average speed

Neither did I, I just recently look at the statcast page. Marte on the other hand, despite being older still has elite bat speed.

Well the argument there was against people who explicitly said "Now is the time" to make moves (which I don't disagree with) in which the farm should be used to make such trades. That's not hyperbole, I reject the notion that all the chips should be thrown in with no regard for the future. Signing Bregman and trade Mayer for Marte might make the team better in 2026. Bregman, despite being a year younger actually shows much more early signs of decline. The team could be hamstrung from as early on as 2027 on, heck for all you know Bregman will fall off a cliff next year. We are in here arguing Marte vs. Mayer, perhaps the argument should be Mayer vs. Bregman. Given what's available out there, and the concern that Bregman is not going to hold up. a Mayer/Story/Marte/? infield is probably going to add much more value over the next 5 years than a Bregman/Story/Marte/? infield.

The options are concerning. Both Bo Bichette and Alex Bregman have very poor bat speed. Bregman in the 30% precentile and Bo in the 12th. Typically, players with poor bat speed do not age well. These are the guys, who when they have other elite talent play well in their 20's but then fall off a cliff. Another argument against trading Mayer for Marte is because if you do trade for Marte perhaps Mayer is your better option at 3B moving forward. That leaves 1B. I like a Contreras trade, I also could get on board with an Okamoto signing. Mayer/Story/Marte/Okamoto. Or Mayer/Story/Marte/Contreras.

I wouldn't have a problem rolling the dice with Casas at 1B with good depth options and a big bat added elsewhere. I'm also not against the Contreras trade either.

I like that analogy

Maybe, but you know guys are going to advance, so it's not like they should of been a shocker.

Well I can't really respond to this seeing how the "hyperbole" is blank. But if I had to guess, I'd guess I counter that with something because I"m certainly not trying to be hypoerbolic. It's funny, because it almost feels like youre' making an argument to keep Mayer. He plugs up a hole, and trading him away creates another hole. So we are literally at the time to keep a guy like Mayer and go out and either A.) trade assets you don't need RIGHT NOW or B.) sign a free agent. If you keep Mayer in AAA, you have 3 roster holes in just your infield alone. I've heard the argument to let him cook in AAA a bit more. They're strong and compelling, but at this point I think you just let him finish cooking at the MLB level, bat him 9th vs. LHP and sit him versus some. If one guy in the bottom of your lineup is killing you then your team is crap and 100% NOT "In that time now" mode.

I think we can 100% be focused on the presetn without trading Mayer+ for Marte. I'm not convinced we can't keep Mayer and still trade for Marte.

Love this post, and it should be repeated every single day around here. People have been brainwashed into thinking we HAVE to go through down cycles, lose games and get high draft picks. Bridging years should never mean becoming a losing franchise.

If spending had everything to do with it the Mets would be better but LA blows them away because they do everything else better on top of spending. I'd rather be LAD lite than NYM lite.

Lets try this with more brevity. If the Sox should be "all in" and they've traded a record number of top 20 prospects in the past two years............shouldn't the focus be on signing guys and spending some money?

I violenty disagree with this post. I certainly do not take it personally. I don't disagree with you, not completely. I just don't agree that we have to trade away guys like Mayer to "go for it now" sure you have to trade away high end prospects sometimes but we've already done a lot of htat lately. I think you can do too little of that, but I think you can also do too much. We've traded more top 20 prospects in the last 2 years than I can remember. We traded two of our #1 draft picks in consecutive years plus two other guys to get Crochet. That's great, I love that move but you have to agument that with FA and developing your own guys. If you don't, then you're shortening your window to a couple years or being the Padres. I reject the notion that we have competitive windows, you should always be competitive, the FO just really messed this team up after it broke up the 2018 squad. You can not spend money on groceries and be malnurished, conversely you can spend all your money on one big feast and then still be malnurished the rest of the year. You need to retain assets, because maybe you need moves to make in 2027, 2028, 2029 etc etc etc. And I'm sorry, Marte for as good as he is, is nowhere CLOSE to the guy you throw all your chips in and go all in.

This is a good point, who knows what we will get. One thing that has me optimistic is he should have been fully recovered for a while and with a full offseason. Maybe the innings get limited at the end of the year but he should be fine. If the stuff has ticked up he's going to make a lot of people eat crow around here. The dream scenario is he pitches like a stud and returns a draft pick.

Maybe, one can still wonder what a DD operation looks like if he's conforming to the constraints put under him by the Henry regime. Everything that makes DD a good G.M. is stripped away from his predecessors.