Hugh2

In how many at-bats? 66??? his greater body of work in the minors shows splits and scouts peg him as a platoon bat as well. Not saying he can't improve upon that projection, but I'm not certainly sold yet.

They almost have too. They have money that will be spent and the position player free agent class is historically bad. Yet there's plenty of pitching and the Red Sox need pitching, I will literally be dumbfounded if they do not buy pitching this offseason.

The free agent market for position players is going to be historically bad this offseason. Teams looking to upgrade and get creative would find a lot of value in guys like Abreu, Valdez, and Refsnyder if they believe they can be legit platoon partners and they have the right fit for them on their roster. Main piece? no but they can be part of a bigger deal if the pieces align right.

Bloom may have done a decent job at building the farm, and I don't disapprove of him at the same level as most, but if he doesn't grow the balls to fix the rotation this offseason he's just not the right guy for the job to take this team to the next level. I think he gets fired in the middle of next season if the Sox are serious contenders.

Needing Starting pitchers 1,2,3 is a pretty freaking major. I don't think we need that, I think we need 1 and 3. Bello is your #2. If Sale is healthy you have an elite rotation, but you can't bank on that, you take it as a bonus if it happens and go out and get yourself two starting pitchers this offseason.

Yes, but the Sox have had an affinity to "spread the money around" which is fine, but sometimes you gotta go big.....and they have not done that. Or at the very least, they have done a s*** poor job of building the rotation. The rotation is just a mix of injury concern, unproven younger talent, and BOTR guys. They have 4 guys on the roster that I think could be fine #4 #5 starters, and that's great because you push 2-3 of those guys to the pen where they can be elite. But having all of Whitlock/Houck/Crawford/Pivetta in the rotation is just a recipee for disaster. If I was emperor of the Red Sox, I'm getting two premium starting pitchers this offseason. Or at the very least ONE top teir guy and someone in that close 2nd teir like Sonny Gray. I would not Hate Gray/SNell

It's a small sample size but his splits are spot on with his "platoon projection" .258 OPS VS. LHP .756 OPS VS. RHP Given his subpar D, you'd expect a little bit more from the left side but I think he can improve upon that. That can be a nice player to have depending on your roster, you can only put 26 guys on there so his profile could add a lot of value to a team....or not. It's weird because Abreu fits a similar profile in the outfield, actually, I think he and REF would make a nice platoon. But you can only have so many platoon guys on your roster. I'd like some of those spots to be guys who have positional versatility and plus defense. I don't think both can fit into Boston's future plans.

A realistic view of the 2023 season is it’s over for the Sox. Shut guys down, and start holding tryouts for next years team.

In terms of “farm building” There’s a difference between finishing last and getting a top 5 pick, then finishing last and getting the 19th pick. I agree a strong farm alone does you nothing, but the Mets have shown us you just can’t throw money at the problem either. We should not dismiss the strength of this farm and its implications on the future potential of this team. You have to develop players if you want MLB success, you absolutely HAVE too. Now with that said, you have to make good investments at the MLB level as well. The Sox have failed here, Henry and Bloom can share the blame. They need to make better decisions and not be afraid to spend a little money to buy premium players to plug up positions of need.

I remember being BIG on the Kodai Senga bandwagon. Imagine how much better this team would be with him in the rotation instead of adding Kluber, that would also of pushed one of Houk/Whitlock to the pen and maybe even keeping them more healthy. Probably 4-5 more wins at least and in serious contention for the WC right now. That's ok....I'll take me some Yama

Who said that?

I don't really remember anyone saying that, there were those who were saying if everyone was healthy that the rotation would be crowded and had potential and that was true. Sale got hurt Whitlock got hurt Houck got hurt Kluber got hurt (ok he just sucked) Paxton, not injured but obviously fatigued and slowing down. More than half of their opening-day rotation missed significant time. The way Sale and Paxton were pitching back in June was promising, after a slow start the pitching staff was starting to look really good and then it fell apart. It pretty much looked like what people said could happen WAS happening. I know because I was the captain of that club and I was also very specific to say there was a ton of injury risk to this rotation and we saw exactly that happen throughout the year. So, I don't think anyone sold anyone a false bill of goods here.

Getting more of a luck at Rafaela at the MLB level and you can see how the scouting report fits him. He found himself down 1-2 in a count where he should have been up 3-1, because he just swings at everything. But the contact skills are there, and that may or may not be enough to make up for his inability to lay off bad pitches. Maybe now that he's reached MLB and will face the best pitching he will ever see without having to worry about taking that next step some experience will be useful, or perhaps some guys can rub off on him. Sit him next to Casas.

The question is, what decent starting pitcher could he of signed last year? People will say Eovaldi and Wacha, but um....they were ours that year and we couldn't do crap with them. Also, you're not signing guys to one year. SIgning those guys last year might end up meaning they don't sign a top teir free agent pitcher this year and the pitching class is so much better. I tend to look at things on a long-term horizon. Let's say the Sox go out and sign Yama this offseason, well, his next 5 years may be a LOT better than Verlander will be the next few years. 25>105 People will say "yeah but the Sox won't go out and sign anyone this offseason" and they very well may be right. But if they didn't touch the crop last year to reset and go after better options this year the overall strategy is good and much better to the long-term health of the organization. It's just hard to build goodwill with people after years of underperformance, injury, lackluster signings and the trading away of Betts.

When you look at a lot of other MLB rotations, what do you really see out of the #4 #5 slot. I like all these arms in the bullpen but some combination of Crawford/Pivetta/Houck/Whitlock would be fine in that role. They really need to build the rotation at the top. Two solid signings with the names talked about in here would be absolutely transformative to this rotation.

Man, I added two big name Free agent pitchers. What else do you guys want? You want the Sox to sign all the starters in the world and trade the farm and have 5 #1s? I get it. We suck, but being realistic and assuming some balls are grown on John Henry’s part, adding two legit starting pitchers I’d pretty damn ambitious. It also doesn’t have to be those two guys. s***….it could be Nola and Snell for all I care.

I noticed, but mainly because he’s my desire. I figured you would not mind him added.

Is it? Yamamoto + Montgomery seems like a different model than just signing Kluber. Also, I have Houck and Whitlock in the pen.

I was tempted to put a * next to his name. I'd be happy with 20 starts. Dude will probably eclipse 100 innings this year and relative to the past few years was healthy this year. He had the shoulder thing, but I would have been more concerned if it was his elbow, which has been fine. He might have another season or two left.....or not. Still, I think Pivetta/Houck/Whitlock can slide into the rotation if that's the case, and If Bello/Yama/Montgomery are as advertised thats still a legit rotation.

THat's a pretty sexy rotation. Yamamoto Chris Sale Bryan Bello Jordan Montgomery Kutter Crawford/Nick Pivetta Pushes Whitlock/Houck to the pen. That's a really good rotation, especially if Yama is 75% as good as they say and if Sale is healthy that could be one of the best rotations in baseball.

He should get more than Rodon.

If you go past the first line, it's fair to assume I have up until the next to play with so I'm spending over 50 mil. And I'd gamble they will this offseason, although I won't try to predict who they actually sign but for the fun of it. Yamamoto $25 million Montgomery $20 million Duval $12 million Look at that I only spent $57, but of course, there will be a few smaller signings that probably add up to another 15-20 million, or perhaps we see an extension or two. A few months ago I would have loved to put Urias on that list.

Another wildcard on this roster is Luis Urias. If he regains his form, he could be a starter on this team at SS or 2nd, and he's under contract for the next two years. If he does not regain his form, he's still a very good bench bat utility type who effectively replaces Arroyo on this roster.

Devers will be the ripe old age of 28 in 2025, Story 32 with a system flush with up the middle talent certain to be higher up the org then. Mayer should be a MLBer. Sox history, plus the strength of their system, plus money coming off the books, makes me very comfortable about setting the offense (largely, not completely) on cruise control and spending their cap space on pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching. It's almost like we can have great pitching and keep Casas and Mayer too. I call it having my cake and.... I know I know I know, not everyone shares this opinion, but as they say "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

Imagine sitting at 300 lbs and over 50% body fat. Your goal is to get into shape, and do a pro body building show. So you go about doing just that, realizing it can’t be done in a year. Over the years you slowly lose the weight and build muscles. Slow, the right way, so it’s sustainable and you dont end up with flappy loose skin. Several years later you’re sitting at 210 lbs and 18% body fat. You look good, you look amazing, but you’re not ready to compete on stage yet. Not even close. But you cash in your chips, and go up on stage with a bunch of men hovering around 5% body fat. Despite your successes and improvements you finish dead last, go eat at dennys and put on 20 lbs. sure you’re not back where you started but you fell flat on your face and set yourself back a few months. To me. This is what Trading Casas or Mayer is like right now. It’s not that it’s the right or wrong move, but rather it’s the wrong time. Have a some damn patience. There’s an actual Forrest past that tree you’re fixated on.