Hugh2

One has to wonder how much of being paid the most, or maximing your contract is an ego thing. Like, would Montgomery really chose texas @ $23 million over Boston at $24 because of a tax difference? he might, but if that was the case I think there's enough data out there to prove it one way or another if one wants to go back and look at all free agent signigns coming out of texas vs. California/New York/Massachusettes the past 10 years.

Does any player hire any agent so they can make less money???

I don't think Clev is even on the same level as those other guys. Urias appears to be a legit abuser, Bauer may have been vindicated in the eyes of some but he had other issues, ALso, he hasnt' pitched in mLB in years. Franco, is a legit PEDO who has actually been arrested now. Lets not put these guys all in the same boat. Maybe Urias and Franco are in the same ocean. MLB found no wrong doing. I'm a parent, I had DCF investigate my home once, not because I did anything wrong but because my ex wifes other daughter made a comment about at school that had nothing to do with me. When s*** like that happens, they take it VERY serious, and thats a GOOD thing but sometimes good people, innocent people get looked at under the microscope for a moment. As far as I can tell Clev is a good guy.

It does goes both ways, and I can't deny the reputation Boras has, but his clients from time to time do get screwed, and end up taking a one year deal when they're left with no suitors at the end of FA. I still think they don't beat their projections.

Despite the contrary being said, the price for pitching appears to be dropping, Breslow could look like a genius if he waits out the market and signs a Montgomery or Snell on the cheap. He won't, because I don't think Henry will let him. But I'd be willing to bet that both Montgomery and Snell get less than their MLBtraderumors.com projected contracts now at this point. We already know Snell was offered 50 million less than his projection, Yankees balked and went Stroman. I could be wrong, but lets see how this plays.

I mean look, I'm not going to go down this path today, I'm not feeling very argumentative. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the article written by McCaffery. It's entirely possible that someone can come up with a game plan, and it fails, where better personel (players) would have succeeded. I'm not in the group of people that want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I personaly believe Breslow deserves a fair chance and it feels like he may not get it here, but that's another conversation to be had. We can sit here and argue all day what is wrong with this team, and we do. We can sit here all day and say who we should trade for or who we shouldn't trade away, and we do. We can sit here all day and argue what ownerships true intentions are and their level of comittment, and we do. But I think we can all agree they have chose to bury their heads in the sand and disengage themselves from their fanbase. That is very disenfranchising. I think that may be the one thing we can all agree on here.

I made a post about this on another forum the other day but I will say it here too because I think it's very relevant to the McCaffery piece. There's a difference between having a solid plan, and then executing that plan. Lets do a thought expirement for a second, lets try to think about how less awful this team might have looked last year if someone like Jeter Downs panned out? A young short stop coming up and taking over SS last year would have looked pretty good. Now all prospects don't hit but it makes you think that Bloom had the right ideal in mind, he just got the wrong guy; he didn't execute. As Jen says, it's not so much that he doesn't believe what he is doing but rather Bloom did not do a very good job. This may not be what fans want to hear, but that might not be 100% incorrect. Anyways, I own a business, it's small but I employee on average about 9 people. My industry has seen some drastic changes over the past 20 years, with many of the traditional print products becoming largley obsolete, but other areas such as large format and signage have seen sales skyrocket. Some people who are stuck in their ways and taught to do one thing didn't understand selling a press and bringing in a UV flat bed to do more billboards, others loved the change. But one thing I never did was lie to people, or ignore them. I've battled my way throught multiple recessions, and I've been in some s*** situations before. I have always found that when I sit down, level with people, and tell them the truth, the backlast is FAR less severe. If John Henry or Kennedy showed up to winter weekend, and gave a detailed explanation of what their plan was and were honest with fans, Told them what the plan was, what went wrong, but also highlighted everything going right I imagine if the conversation could look something like "Our plan is to build a sustainable contender, and with that we have tried gone down a tempered path of buildimg up assets towards a future and invest in the interim in a way that puts a competitive product on the field and does not put that future in jepordy. We have not been as successful as we like, and we apologize, we understand our fans demand more, but we are actively looking to correct our problems. We have brought in new personnel to help build up a more robust pitching and development program and we have a much stronger farm system than we did 4 years ago. We anticipated this process would not take as long, and we are actively working to do better and recognice that we have to do better than falling short of our goals" Many fans wouldn't like that response, but I think at least they would be respected. I have found when I level with people, and I tell them the truth, the backlash is not as bad, and people will at least respect you. But they chose to dig their heads in the sand, and to not even face the fans. That......that is unacceptable to me.

Jen McCaffery said what I've been thinking about 1000000X better than I ever could, although, I'm not paid to write and my english has always sucked. I didn't know a lot about the investment going into building up around Fenway. That may be a good long term thing for the total Boston experience, but as she said, what is that really worth if the product on the field is crap????

I wouldn't bet large sums of money on it, but I would not be suprised if Clevinger was better over the next 4 years than Snell is, or at the very least worth the cost. He will like cost 1/5 of Snell.

Take out Blake Snells two cy young seasons and who is he? Snell might give you a Cy Young season, and then for disappear for 3 seasons, or forever. Take out his two best years and this is what he is. 118 2/3 IP 3.94 ERA 2.43 WAR I'm not saying that guy is not valuable, and can't help your team win. But he just turned down $30 million a year for 5 years, because he is looking for either more money per or an extra year. He's 31, and while some pitchers pitch well into their 30's, most do not. I could be wrong, it seems there's always one guy who can be dug up to break the mold, but I personally can't think of one pitcher who showed that level of inconsistency in their 20's who went on to be a good pitcher throughout their 30's. The odds are greatly in favor of whoever signs Snell coming to regret that contract. I'll root for him if he's here. But if he's demanding 180/6. I'm ok with the Sox passing.

Being reported that the Yankees made an offer to Snell

In a vacuum I don’t hate Clevinger, but it’s just the same old same old song of not willing to go big and hang with top dogs.

Well, looks like it’s another season of following the minor leaguers and dreaming about the future for me.

It's tough, maybe the gym bros can be the tie-breaker.

Who is everyone? the fans in the stands? the organization said they were moving him because he was blocked by Dustin PEdroia. You can literally look that up. You can't look up what you're saying. Conveniently.

The front office literally openly said they were moving him to the outfield because of Dustin Pedroia. It's not a secret, everyone knows this. Read my quoted tag line. I'm keeping that even though it's going to make me look bad. I take pride in learning when I'm wrong, I will wear it as a badge of honor because I like Authenticy darnit. I wish other people could do the same around here. It's not a sign of weakness to admit you're wrong, the world won't stop turning, I promise. Its ok....its ok to admit that you know Mookie Betts was actually moved to the outfield because he was blocked by Dustin Pedroia. Life will continue onwards, I promise.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you're right. It's not my decision to make. What I meant to say was I nominated him.

no, but i follow every single minor league game. EVERY. from the DSL, to the FLC, to Lowell when Lowell existed, to the GCL, to Greenville, to Salem, to Portland and Pawtucket. When an organization moves a player, they do it when they're in the high minors. There is just as much evidence that they were moving him then to get him reps so he'd be ready in the outfield when promoted. I also have seen almost every single Portland Sea Dogs game when they come to connecticut, which today is the Hartford Yard goats, but back then it was the New Britain Rock Cats. At the time my fiance was in grad school at WCSU the year Mookie was in Portland. And I lived 4 minutes away from the stadium for 4 years. I watched A LOT of minor league games. The fact that mookie played some outfield in the minors is not making the point you think it is. He was moved the year he was promoted, he was the top prospect in all of baseball. Baseball America literally had an entire page and thing called the "Mookie Meter". he was literally one of the most hyped prospects ever that year. Everyone knew he was smashing his way up to the majors. WHen the Sox knew he was going to force his way up in 2014 they moved him to the outfield BECAUSE of Dustin Pedroia. You're talking about less than 40 games. THen they immediatley moved him back to his natural position when Pedroia went down. Because he was still a second baseman first then.

Read my post above einsteen. It was reported by EVERY news outlet, it's how baseball works, and even the freaking team OPENLY SAID he was moved BECAUSE of Dustin Pedroia.

DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE COACH ON SEPTEMBER 24th 2014 “We moved Mookie to second base when Dustin (Pedroia) went down for the year. We moved Mookie to center field initially because of Dustin’s presence,” Farrell said before Wednesday’s game against the Tampa Bay Rays at Fenway Park

I officially award RED with the most insane comment of the offseason.

If Dustin Pedroia was not on the team in 2014 he would of come up as a second baseman and they would of have gone out and got an outfielder. You're literally the only person on earth who thinks this.

Literally anyone can back and look at all the media and interviews back then and see. EVERYONE was saying Mookie was moving to the outfield because he was blocked by Pedroia. Also, teams 100% play players were they play best, the only caveat to that is when a guy is BLOCKED. That's like......something I thought we all knew. And even more ridiculous, is the moment 2B opened back up in September of 2014 they moved Mookie back to second base for a few weeks when Dustin Pedroia broke his hand.

Holy s***, this might be the funniest take ever.

WHHAAAAAT! HAHAHAHAH Dude, Mookie was 100% moved because of Pedroia. Mookie never played the outfield, and was considered a potential gold glove prospect at 2B coming up. I mean, I've seen a lot of lying and moving of goalposts around here, but this might single handidly be the biggest revisionist history I've ever seen on this board. Mookie Betts was moved off of second base because of Dustin Pedroia.