Hugh2

We should also find out who we came in second place to for the Imanaga sweepstakes any day now.

(assuming the Soler deal happens) I love how the Sox address atrocious offense by going out and adding horrible defenders. I think Grissom actually has the ability to turn into a good defender at second. But still, it's the same old same old IF, MAYBE, COULD, we tell ourselves every year with this team.

I'd hate it less if he was more of a DH, maybe that's why he had a really good season last year. He was primarily a DH. If you get that version Soler, he's a better bat than Teoscar. Not saying I love it.

What about what other teams were offering him?

I can't blame you, but Solers highs and have been higher, and he bounced back really good last year when he started DHing more. I wonder if the Sox view Jorge more as a DH now.

Houck too, if he could get better stamina or develop another pitch to get thru an order a third time he could a really good starting pitcher. The time for these two has certainly passed. At the absolute very least one of them should be moved to the bullpen permanently.

I’m just not sure Fenway gets enough sunlight to go Solar.

Looks like we are going Soler anyways. Who knows where he plays

Did we really need another left fielder with a declining bat?

It’s all connected people. When you don’t have young pitching and you have to go out and buy it you can get burned by the hot stove. David Price, Jacob Degrome etc etc. When you can draft and develop young players, particularly pitching you can afford to make a mistake or two when you’re a big market club. Haven’t the Yankees made mistakes? The Dodgers? There’s no silver bullet, there’s risk with anyone. Yamamoto never pitched an inning in the bigs and carrys significant risk with his size. Maybe that doesn’t matter. Snell has two CY young’s and a lot of durability concerns and mediocre seasons sprinkled inbetween. Montgomery is going to be paid like an ace for pitching like a 2/3. But he’s been absurdly consistent. That could drastically change after 30. Risk is mitigated by not having to rely on your free agent signings having to hit. Sox are in a position now where they have to hit. I would have been ok with them taking that risk, but a better run organization built towards sustainable success is going to have to start with young pitching. Notice how we are always talking about the guys a year away from free agency being traded? How often to ACE pitchers with 3+ years of team control ACTUALLY get traded? Sure it happens, obviously, but it’s insanely rare. Which is why the price is insanely high. Teams don’t just trade those guys away, everyone wants them, abs when they get them they keep them. If people are upset we haven’t made some big moves to bolster the pitching then I’m 100% on your side. I too, am dissatisfied. But the long term sustainable solution is to draft, trade for prospects, and develop these guys. We just plain and simply don’t do that. But what would it look like? It’s not just drafting guys, it’s having the ability to identify and develop talent. For example, Dick Fitts is a nice young pitching prospect, not elite, but could develop into a middle of the rotation starter. Probably won’t but could. Roger Clemens once was scouted and said to have the potential to be a mid rotation starter. It’s more probable that Fitts is not that good, but it’s having more moves like that (with using more draft capital) that ALLOWS for that to happen. Sox are essentially fishing in a pond with a dozen fish, where teams like LA stock their pond with fish. I really really hope that one day the ghost of baseball past/present/future visit John Henry and convince him to start acting like the Boston f***ing Red Sox again. But investments they’ve made in development and scouting are welcomed.

One reason the Yankees are good at spending smart is because the amount of scouting they do at the big league level. That’s an investment you don’t see show up in payroll. I’d also argue that recently the Dodgers are a better example. They spend, but they still manage to draft and develop their own guys. Red Sox have shown they can draft and develop position players. They just can’t do it on the other side of the ball. And have failed to not only address the issue, but fill in the blanks via other routes

If I could control the front office. I’d have both Montgomery and Yamamoto in here (maybe not Yama), but I’d certainly open the check book I’m not the front office, but if I was, on top of that I’d still be making the personnel and financial investments too to bottom to try and identify and develop more and better young pitching There’s nothing wrong with both. I think a wise man would agree it’s actually optimal. The reality is we can’t judge those things for years. We can definitely say for the past couple decades they’ve done a poor job. Have they improved in those areas? If recently only time will tell. Separate from that, there are other failures at the big league level. Failing to trade for those guys to fill in the hole, failing to sign big names to fill in those holes. They deserve all the strife in the world for not doing all of these above. Haven’t we been complaining for years that they don’t draft and develop pitching? Maybe that’s it. If they did, we couldn’t complain about it I suppose

I didn’t realize we were stock piling young pitching depth. I get you were probably talking about prospects in general. But I didn’t think this what we were talking about. I thought we were talking about getting young, talented, high upside pitching into the system. These guys don’t grow on trees. They can trade for pitching, or buy it now, which I’ve been a proponent of. But if you want young talented arms, you have to do a better job of developing them. That takes time. That’s a fact.

See my post above. Just because they could or should be trading for pitching, or signing quality free agents, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to start getting better at developing them too. This team is in a big hole. If we want long term success. It will take a multifaceted approach. I feel perfectly comfortable being happy that they’re investing in more scouts and development personnel and also being upset as a fan that they can’t trade and sign the guys they need now. To me it’s not a zero sum game.

Every good to great starting pitcher was developed somewhere. So if it never comes to fruition you’re doing something wrong. Hence, the concept of putting time, money, effort, and the RIGHT personnel into development. Whether we like it or not, it takes time. That’s not an argument it’s just reality. Which is why I was a big proponent of buying starting pitching this offseason. A big market team like Boston (who is currently acting like a mid market club) can afford to invest in pitching. If they wanted. I thinking taking the long road is more optimal for long term success, but I wanted to see now moves too in the interim. They have failed 100% to date, but I want bash them for doing something right.

It’s not excusing anything, it’s just logic. If they take a 16 year old in IFA, or draft an 18 year old. They’re not starting games in the majors for years to come. That’s just reality Could go college pitching, and reduce that lead time. But even then, you’re looking at a few years of building up innings and development. That’s. That’s exactly what developing pitching entails

In terms of fixing the pitching and development approach they have allegedly made many changes in just the last couple years. It’s worth noting, that it would take years to bear fruit. We will never know those changes are good until years down the road. I would also like to point out that they could have put all the right people there, up and down the system, but it’s going to be hard if you’re not drafting a lot of those guys. To some extent it’s a numbers game. I’m curious to see if the drafting strategy changes with Breslow. They did take a much larger amount of pitchers in IFA last year. But again, If those guys pan out it’s going to be 5+++ years or so until they start to contribute.

Just a reminder that pitchers and catchers report in 39 days. Soon the season will begin and there will be absolutely nothing to fight about.

Depends if he's more like the 1st half Yoshida, or the 2nd half. He's not as big of a butcher in LF as people say, but the bat was good before he really slowed down in the second half.

I was about to say yes, then I realized Darvish is 37.

I don't really want to touch the Bauer situation again, I think I already gave myself and everyone else PTSD. But taking all the drama out of the equation he's a guy who hasn't pitched in the majors in 2.5 years. He does offer upside, but carries risk, and he probably takes a 1-2 year pillow contract to help he rebuild value. We already have a guy like that with the signing of Giolito, at this point we need certainty in the rotation. Perferably with talent.

I've been saying this same mantra for years, but I'm starting to shift my opinion on it. Yes you can trade hitting for pitching, but you can't get away with that to build the majority of your pitching staff. Yes we've developed our own guys who are good E.G. Houck. But not enough high end talent. When is the last time we developed an ACE? Sure we can trade for one, and perhaps we should, but if you're trading 4 for 1, or 3 for 1 prospects for pitching, eventually you're going to have no team on the field behind them. Prospects bust, but some don't, and the more bullets you fire the more Bogaerts, Betts, Durans, Casas, Bello's, Houcks you're missing out on. I know the talent level varies on that list, but you need good to better talent all up/down your roster to compete for championships. At some point, the Boston Red Sox are going to have to do a much better job of bringing in elite pitching talent, Whether that's trading for younger pitching prospects who they can better evaluate and develop (a good example of this would be if Fitts develops into a #3) and/or drafting pitchers via Rule 4 and IFA.

Their* ughhh

If they make no other pitching additions, then maybe they’re blatantly punting on 2024. If that’s the case, there’s no way they are making a major addition to the pitching staff with or without Sales money. At least they got a young 23 year old with a lot of upside. Still, they need pitching. If they’re not buying pitching they better start drafting and developing it. If that’s there plan. Our only path to success is either waiting another 4 years, or having a season where everything breaks right. Don’t shoot the messenger.

If they just wanted to cut payroll, why get Grissom? Usually teams kick in money to get back a better return. If the motivation was to cut payroll, then why not take back a less valuable piece and have Atlanta or another team eat more of the money?