Hugh2

But did he? is that actually true? Being frugal, and poor drafts put us on the road to ruin, but it was the front office decision to stay there that led to a 1/2 a decade of mostly suck. Otherwise we may of just had a down season or two. Also, as bad as price was, he was probably better than what our 4th/5th starters gave us in 2021/2022 anyways and we still paid a lot of his salary. THen there's Sale, who Henry probably ordered to be traded because he hates the risk of long term contracts and then was slapped in the face with the reality of what COULD HAPPEN when you stand behind high end talent. After Chris Sale, no one deserves his Cy Young season more than John Henry. Egg on his face.

I understand. A blockbuster trade would certainly make this team much better in 2025, but I think it also shortens their window. In another couple years players like Casas/Duran/Houck will be in their expensive arby years. And then in one more your only two starters are Crawford and Bello. If you buy, and don't blow up that farm, I believe that window of competition is much longer. I don't want to blow my load for a couple years. If they go out and trade all their chips for a Crochet, then they have to go out and probably buy a few position players and you lose Crochet in only a few years and have to pay him anyways. Now is the time to buy, I think Sox fans should demand it from the FO

But you don't need to deal big time prospects. I said exactly what you said, the Padres went out and got proven MLB talent and I think the Sox should do the same thing. Buy Fried and Scott and you're set for next year with all your young cost controlled talent still on the roster. You buy those guys and you're still sitting 30 million under the tax, which is still in this teams budget.

I'm tired of hearing that excuse (not from you but from the FO) big market successful teams take big swings. Sox could trade Casas/Campbell for a stud starting pitcher and move Devers over to 1B. But then what do you do? go out and pay Bregman a massive contract that is probably just as risky at 3B and roll the dice with Story being healthy at SS and Grissom at 2nd? The point is, the Sox have the capacity to make those big swings and even miss a little if they don't have to pay big money at 2B/1B/CF/LF/RF because they have young cost controlled talent. Trading young talent is just robbing peter to pay paul. I say just pay paul goddamnit.

A lot of that were guys already on their roster coming into their own, getting healthy and having better seasons. They did however make some key moves as you elude to. I just said in another post, that I think the Sox have some good talent that should produce better results than last year that if you ADD a few high end pitchers that they could really transform the roster. Adrian Morejon, who had a career ERA of 5.28 this year had a career year, has been on the Padres since 2019 Robert Suarez, who has been on the Padres since 2022 had a much stronger 24 campaign than his 23 season. Yu Darvish played less this year, but he came back strong at the end of the season and in the playoffs when it counted and his stats look better than 23. And others. But they added Michael King, Dylan Cease, and then Tanner Scott at the deadline. So yes, I'd call that amazing. I think the Sox could be in a similiar situation if they get a strong showing from their pitching staff from the likes of guys like Giolito, Fulmer, Hendriks, Whitlock, Bello, Slaten and Guerrero. I'm not saying they all come back strong or improve their performance, but if a few of them do AND the Sox went out and signed a guy like Tanner Scott and Corbin Burnes. They could have similar magic in 2025.

By zero means do I believe this team shouldn't make moves. As a matter of fact I'm a firm believer that the Sox need to make serious additions to this roster, high end stars not dumpster dives etc. But do people out there think that this team as is won't get any better. Do they think roster development is 100% contingent on adding free agents, or making trades? Tristan Casas, entering his age 25 season right at his prime, shouldn't he get better? A healthy Trevor Story massively improves the team up the middle, I'd expect about the same from the Raphael Devers, Tanner Houck, Jarren Duran, Wilyer Abreu, Brayan Bello, Cutter Crawford group collectively. Kristian Campbell, and Anthony Roman have good shots at starting next year and budding into super stars, with Kyle Teel and Marcelo Mayer right behind them. Sure, one or two of them may falter, but when is the last time we had 4 top 25 prospects all ready or close to MLB ready at the same time? Seriously, I can't think of a single time ever. I'm not sure if all of Hendriks, Fulmer, Whitlock, and Giolito come back healthy and strong next year but I think 1-2 of them probably will. Now, I know what the nay-sayers are thinking of saying to this. I can already feel there fingers slamming down on the keyboard in protest accusing me of being a bastard son to Chaim Bloom. But I'm not anointing them a world series contender. I just think they have a young, talented roster, that is heading in the right direction. I can easily see them falling into the 85-90 win range as is. The point I'm working up to. That group costs you nothing, it sets you 80 million below the luxury tax limit and still far below what the Sox typically spend even in their "budget conscious" era. If they take their team as is, and add a couple high end arms, maybe even one high end starter and one high end relief pitcher, they can easily afford it because they won't have to pay any position players in FA for a few years (although I can see a back up catcher being signed this offseason). Give me one of Corbin Burnes/ Max Fried and then buy me Tanner Scott. That type of high end talent could push this team into being a world series contender. Which is where they belong.

Be prepared to either trade player/prospect package or eat all his salary. Depending on how that looks, I'm not against it at all.

agree, no way Boston should make that trade.

Not that I have any interest, but he ain’t sniffing close to what Story and Yoshida got. He probably gets a 1 year deal somewhwrw

Ok, but what if you were trading him for 4 years of control of another young star player.......who pitches?

I do too, perhaps I should change the name in the poll. Left it open for a while for this reason.

Cash Payroll last few years vs. Luxury tax payroll Cash 187/218/203/213 LT: 207/236/225/226

And GIF's apparently.

One of the my favorite books "The smartest guys in the room" Some of those Enron Fellas back in the early 2,000's ended up in handcuffs, although something tells me that was your reference...this book.

All eyes will be on Sox ownership this offseason. What do you think the Sox will do for the budget in the year 2025? will they significantly add? or will they shed. I set the over/under at $220 million

Over Under on the payroll? I'll set it at $225 million

I'd call 81-81 mediocrity. I'd call last place with a losing record beneath mediocrity.

Teams don't abundantly play their division like they did in the past. The year was an improvement, little consolation prize for missing the playoffs so I'd be more comfortable on bargaining to say there was no improvement rather than it was a step back. The later just sounds unreasonably pessimistic.

I think Abreu gets you a decent reliever with control, maybe a back end starter with less control. Hamilton and Wink hold value too, but I don’t think you can package all three up for something better. All three are good candidate's to be traded, but not in the same deal.

I’m not sure Garcia gets protected, I’m fairly certain he probably does not, this reminds me of the Gilberto Jimenz, discussion. I was 100% certain he would not be protected with Garcia it’s more like 90% hitters are a different animal than pitchers. While both can work on things outside of live game action, position players really need their at bats vs. live pitching more than pitchers need to face hitters for their development. because of that, pitchers can be stashed in bullpens, thrown into blowouts and continue working on their craft everyday. a hitter can’t improve his craft sitting on the bench and taking batting practice in lieu of games the same way a pitcher can. A team can’t stash an offensive player on their roster. There’s a very good chance he goes unclaimed. but I do think there’s a chance with him, unlike Jimenez who never took an at bat above A ball before being rule 5 eligible. Garcia has 30 for whatever that’s worth.

Much how much of an upgrade is Tanner Scott when you’re losing Jensen? sox need pitching, starting and relievers. Sign me up for Burnes/Scott

It’s a generalization for sure, it rings more true when you remove the top of the market. Elite closers are getting paid, and they are performing. after that, results can vary wildly. With relievers they only need to pitch 1-2 innings and don’t need to turn a lineup over. They’re usually a one trick pony. You lose your pitch or control and it gets ugly fast. Conversely, there are less things to fix when you’re a relief pitcher. one good pitch makes you a serviceable reliever in the bigs.

Duran, you are the man.

100% obviously no MLB team is using BTV, but they have their own internal valuation systems that place value on players that effectively does the same thing. We will never see that, the team what we want to trade with might really undervalue our prospects.......or overvalue them. I think we sometimes think that just because we trade a guy away it's because we don't like them or, and this is my favorite, we think he won't develop into a player. That's why I've always gotten a kick out of the "trade the guys overvalued and you don't think will make it" The irony is, despite that logic being complete ********, there actually is an element of truth to it if another team values your guys or said players it's a lot easier to make a deal. For example. If Seattle really really likes a few of our guys, we could probably have Logan Gilbert at a reasonable cost (still costing you at least one in the top 3-4+) but if they don't then it's not happening, or you're over paying.