Hugh2

I actually think DD might of been told to trade Mookie, maybe he was fired because he wouldn't. Would seem very DD like "you're crazy we're not trading Mookie, you will have to fire me John." But like.....what was your point if you agree Bloom was instructed to trade Mookie?

I read this after I responded, we both made the same joke.

A. it's pretty well established. If you think a guy can be hired as a new GM, trade away a HOF and not get fired for it if he wasn't directed to do it I have a bag of air I'd like to sell you. B. I don't give a s***, it has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. C. It can both be true that Bloom was told to trade Betts and he was a horrible GM. I choose C.

I haven't seen anyone call Fitts a potential mid rotation starter, not saying they haven't. But it certainly sounds like Priester is the one with a better ceiling.

Boston is not Tampa north. hiring a guy from Tampa doesn’t make you Tampa. The same way that hiring someone from India doesn’t turn you into an Indian. If there was an ounce of truth to this the payroll would be down around $100 million. They’ve had five years to shed payroll now and they’ve not. Sure, the moves they have made have sucked, but making s***** free agent signings doesn’t mean you just ignore that money spent and say “see…..Tampa north” lol

Results doesn't reflect talent, yes results 100% matter and is ultimately only what matters but consider this. You can have two pitchers with the exact same results but one could have the potential to be much better than the others based on their stuff. Priester has much much better stuff, that's indisputable and teams dream on upside. Priester has higher value to more teams.

Hiring Bloom had nothing to do with it, Henry directed him to trade Mookie. Just because Bloom came from Tampa means nothing, the guy in charge of the DOdgers was poached from Tampa so that argument is just wrong.

What does that have to do with them not turning into Tampa North because they outspend them on payroll 2:1? Facts, they outspend and out revenue Tampa. That's my argument and it's 100% backed up by fact. If you want to say they have spent their money poorly and chose to not resign franchise players fine, no disagreement from me there whatsoever. I can't argue against that, but from a pure dollars and cents perspective Boston is not Tampa Bay North and there's no evidence they're turning into them. I think our arguments got mixed up here at some point.

Even if Revenue was the same thing as payroll. Which it's not. THe Sox are still not Tampa North https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

There's a direct relationship between payroll and wins/losses. Not nearly as strong as revenue. YOu can lose 100 games and still turn a profit as a company. To me revenue is 100% irrelevant here. When fans say "Boston is become Tampa North" they're talking about payroll. They're talking 100% about the money spent on the players on the field, they're talking about investing in the team. Boston has consistently outspent Tampa 2:1 They're not Tampa North, they've just normally sucked.

I get that Fitts had a nice stretch in Boston, but I'm not convinced by that 20 IP sample size after showing very mediocre stuff all year in AAA. He very well could end up turning out more MLB value, but I think Priester has a much higher ceiling. For that his trade value could be higher.

Ohtani 29 Judge 31 Semien 30 Seager 28 Freeman 32 SOTO will be 26 years old when he starts the season. This is a different animal here, we are talking about one of the best players in the game reaching free agency at the beginning of his prime and not at an age when guys can start to slow down. The closest guy on your list is Seager, who is not only 2 years older but at that time had accumulated a 21.8 WAR where Soto has a career War of 36.3 Juan Soto type free agents just do not come around very often. They just don't.

That's an entirely different thing. Payroll is directly effected by which players you trade and sign for. I honestly don't think a single fan could care less about whether revenue is down or up as long as the club is winning

Juan Soto is the obvious exception because he's Juan Soto, but I don't think the Sox should be focused on positional players this offseason, although I would like to see an upgrade at the catcher position. It does make sense to check in on players, really everyone, because you never know how things may transpire. What if the Sox get an offer they really like for a pitcher that includes a package of Kristian Campbell OR Marcelo Mayer, I'm not saying they're shopping him around but if they were too then all of a sudden a guy like Willy Adames might be a lot more intriguing to them. It makes sense to check in on guys, even if they're not your priority. Because you should have your plan A, plan B, plan C and even plan D ready to roll. I don't think there's a very big chance they seriously go after Willy.

Even hiring Bloom was a false narrative. Dodgers hired Andrew Friedman away from TB and he's only the director of baseball operations for the biggest market team in the game. It's all on John Henry. Even then. Boston Payroll vs. Tampa Payroll in the post Mookie era. 2020: $185 million to $90 million 2021: $207 million to $90 million 2022: $236 million to $125 million 2023: $226 million to $132 million 2024: $223 million to $106 million Sox are not turning into Tampa North. I understand the frustration, I understand digging their hole so deep that they don't get one ounce of credit until they've actually invested in real high end talent and built a winner. I get that, I really do, and I'm not saying there's been in obvious shift in philosophy and how they spend their money in recent years but I will say this. Let us look at what they have said. They have said, that they would spend, they've always said that they would spend when they feel that they have a team to build around. Whether or not you like that philosophy that's what they've said and to be fair, they've had a crap team to be "building around" in recent years. For the first time in a decade they have a young team, a #1 farm system, and the payroll space to add talent. If they were going to keep their words then this would be the offseason that they would change gears and spend. Again, I get that it's "put up or shut up time" but if they do go out and add elite talent this offseason.....they've effectively done exactly what they've said they were going to do all this whole time. I would have felt a whole lot better about it if they were just honest with fans from the get go and said they were in rebuild mode. They went into rebuild mode and told everyone they were going to compete and that is understandably why the fan base is untrusting. I'm encouraged by this. On the last section 10 podcast it was either Jared Carrabis or Lou Merloni who was saying that in the past it was pretty much a guy going out to talk to a free agent, last year they would send Eddie Romero and thats' it. This year, they reportedly met with a high end player and sent the entire cavalry. And there are reports around the league that teams, executives, and agents expect the Sox to be big time players this offseason. Whether thats' ******** or not......we shall find out.

Stated is an interesting word seeing how the Sox have literally never said this.

When I started looking at the Mets spending I noticed that too. The crazy thing is, none of those contracts in a vacuum looked like a big overpay. It’s just the totality of their spending that is enormous. They will obviously be serious bidders, but this notion that they will just outbid anyone thru the moon is just theoretical at this point.

Well we just Pivetta so we gotta sign someone

I'm encouraged by the Soto pursuit, but that also doesn't mean I'm 100% convinced they get him. Remember, even if the Sox really do a 180 this offseason and decide that they're ready to invest into this ballclub again, they can STILL lose out to teams like NY/LA etc. If they're serious, I still expect a big offseason if they lose out on the Soto sweepstakes. Pitching should be the focus, and if Soto goes elsewhere it will still be the main focus. In the absence of Soto I have very little interest in position players aside from a catcher, this team really needs a catcher. Soto is the exception.....because he's f***ing Juan Soto. But with all that said, I can't blame one single poster for being pessimistic until something actually happens, given this ownerships actions the last 1/2 decade.

I mean tis the season for suspense and making people wait to know. At least we will know a few things after today.

It’s Anthony. You know that, I know you know that, you know I know that and you know that I know that you know that.

Yes, but that just goes to show you that you never know. People always say "trade away the right prospects who are over rated and keep the good ones" So simplistic from the sidelines. Like other teams don't have robust scouting departments. Just because you trade someone away doesn't mean you don't like them. Guys bust. If the Sox traded away all their prospects in the top ten, in ten years from now a few of the moves would look like clear winners and a few might look highly regrettable. Also, FWIW, Moncada busting is largely influenced by his inability to stay healthy. That's what killed his career more than anything. But that's part of the game, staying healthy.

That is and always will be the argument. I'm comfortable waiting until guys are in the higher minors before trading them. Imagine being the guy trading away Mookie Betts for a relief pitcher, or trading away Xander Bogaerts for a pinch runner. Sure, those guys move, but with less frequency. I think there's a good chance their value will increase a bit more even if they end up busts. I wouldn't touch guys like Arias/Bleis right now unless a team was really in love with them. E.G. CHW wants Arias or Bleis as the second piece (with Abreu) in a Crochett deal.

I'm not saying he's not a player or even we should be surprised if it's the Mets, but people act like it's a foregone conclusion. I don't think Soto to NY is as much of a slam dunk as you guys are making it out to be.

I don’t think being the richest guy in baseball means he can never be outbid. Its not like the guy has unlimited money and tells Boras “we’ll meet any offer and add 10%” into perpetuity. signing a lot of high priced free agents isn’t analogous with just ridiculously overpaying anyone.