moonslav59

I never saw the word "imminent." Sometimes talks break down, but it does sound very encouraging. It is probably very rare, when "advanced talks" is reported and then no deal is made. BTW, I wasn't doubting Speier. I wasn't sure where the info he got was from. If it came from the Sox, I'd doubt anything. It wouldn't make Speier wrong for reporting what he was told. It does look like he will be extended. I'm happy for that. I hope it works out well. It should.

All I read was "Advanced talks." If I missed something, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I admit, I am stuck on this whole sham thing, and may be blinded by that. I hope we extend him. It would make sense and calm the waters a bit. It also fits their longer term plans.

It's pretty common for these deals to just go 1-2 years beyond the end of control.

I read that and was responding to it. I'm saying it might just be part of the ongoing sham to brighten up our hopes (only to dash them, later with a no deal reached.)

I was pretty surprised we got someone as promising and MLB ready as Grissom, but paying most of Sale's remaining contract evened the deal out for ATL. The fact that ATL has a SS and 2Bman made it easier for them to make this offer. It took awhile for this deal to good, to me, but I like the idea of 5 years of Grissom for one year of Sale on a team destined for another season missing the playoffs. I realize, it didn't need to be this way, but I can't change the fact that it is what it is. Maybe Grissom fizzle like Jeter Downs. That would really suck, but even if Sale has a good year, it probably wouldn't have mattered. Also, we were never going to extend Sale, so this isn't like losing 3 years of Chris Freakin' Sale. I was a huge Sale fan. It sucks it ended like this. I have to admit, I got fed up with the annual Sale hope and dream dashing. In what seems like a lost season, it makes sense to get highly promising players for players that are not in our long term plans. So, this leads me to think, what can we get for Pivetta? Martin? Jansen, when healthy? O'Neill, at the deadline, if healthy? Maybe even something worthwhile for McGuire or Refsnyder and anyone else about to get squeezed by rising propsects.

Just some fluff to try and counter the bad news on Gio. I doubt we extend Bello or Casas, this year.

Mata on the 60 with a hamstring pull? Let's assume these 3 go on the 60, these might be some guys added, at some point: 1B Cron (if we don't like Dalbec on the 26.) P Fitts Gambrell Luetge Guerrero Hagenman IF Yorke Sogard Westbrook OF Contreras (I doubt it) Am I missing anyone?

SSS Minors 42 in 234 games at SS (6 in 21 career ML 3 in 50 games at 2B (4 in 44 MLB) Not great, but not as bad as what we saw in 2023 at 2B (and SS until Story returned.)

Giolito - instantly flushed down toilet. ...and no plunger available! Grissom - injured. Not worried about this. Sale - looking good so far. Famous last words.

We'd need incredible health luck and career highs in IP by several young and or tweeners slotted as SP'ers, this season, for this not to happen. What a complete cluster ____! Bello Pivetta Crawford Houck Whitlock Winckowski Criswell, Fitts, Walter, Gambrell, Murphy (Wikelman?)

The list gives reason to not want to, with Gio being the cherry on top. It's taken forever for them to create a system that generates homegrown starters, and we still are not sure it's gotten any better, recently. We've basically survived off trading for aces and occasional success (usually short-lived) with signing some.

It's not so cut and dried. The world is not so black & white. The character are concerning and do matter, but so does giving people another chance and realizing we don't know everything that happened and all the nuances that go along with consent. I'd consider giving him a shot, but it's not an easy decision. It's likely an easy decision for our FO: hard no.

Wacha worked out well. Others, okay. The list shows more mehs & failures than good deals for us. That's not to say we should never sign top SP'ers, again. I think we need to- many & often.

I think both sides believed it was likely he'd miss a full year out of the 5- maybe 1.5 seasons. They agreed on an amount that reflected that belief. I doubt either side knew he'd only start 31 out of a possible 110 starts (~28%) in the first 4 seasons of the 5 season deal. I realize it was a big if that Sale would be Chris Freakin' Sale for the other 3.5 to 4 seasons out of the 5, but if he was, he'd have been worth about $145M/4. It turns out the deal sucked. We might have been able to keep Betts or Bogey, instead. Who knows. The fact is, we have not done very well signing or extending SP'ers for about the last decade or so. Giolito Kluber Wacha Hill Richards M Perez II M Perez I Nate (Ext) Sale (Ext) Porcello (Ext) Price Miley (10 years ago) I think the ones just over 10 years ago were Dempster & Lackey with the Beckett extension. Am I missing any major signings or extensions of SP'ers in the last 10-12 years?

Gotta love the Wink as 5th starter idea.

This could be the cover they can use to sign Bauer. That being said, it won't happen.

No. Haven't you heard? It's the GMs trying to prove to JH they don't need his money.

I liked the extension, because it looked like we gave him 4 years of pay for a 5 year deal. I expected him to miss one year of the five. I was way wrong.

This may scare JH even more against signing any SP'er- ever again!

It's closer to 2 to 1 than 4 to 1. 3 to 1 is closest. $27M:$10M is not even 3 to 1, but it is closer to 3 than 2, even with inflation figured in.

We are not even going to try to give anyone 180 IP, IMO. Maybe Pivetta & Bello can get there. At best, we might see... GS/IP 32/170 Bello 32/170 Pivetta 25/125 Crawford 25/125 Houck 20/100 Whitlock 20/100 Winckowski 8 others This is assuming no more injuries, and these guys not sucking.

We may end up being better, but in no way are our odds better w/o Gio.

Why would we pick up the '26 option? The most likely outcome will be a $27M/2 deal, which is more than double what Paxton got. The two deal have some things in common, such as the guy missing the 1st year and the start of the second. (I'm assuming Gio does the same.) I'm not sure why you think it's a 3yr deal. You, yourself said he's not pitching 140 IP in '25.

I didn't say take crap. I said take the best offer or wait until the deadline, if you think offers improve. This is not about cutting payroll. 2024 is a punt, so act like it and get what you can for everyone not part of future plans. Something is better than nothing. We've been getting nothing for far too long. I'm not for trading Matin for a single A player with mild upside. The Sale situation was different, and as you noticed, we traded him with one year left and paid half his salary. We can pay half or more of Martin, jansen and others, too. I'm not saying trade them all by the end of the week, no matter how bad the offer is, but get the best you can, even if you think it's not what each is worth.

I'll be watching their box scores more than ever. AAA, too.