moonslav59

I said Sale and Nate, and how much did we underbid the Dodgers by? (about $64M, right?) Certainly, if Bloom was looking of other ways to cut the budget and keep Betts, it would have been easier without Sale and Nat's contracts on the books. Bloom had a tough budget to work with. The Price aspect of the trade is often neglected, and the loss of Porcello's innings eating and $21M contract with a Martin Perez replacement is another huge cut.

I thought the same thing, but he foillowed it up with... "I really believe we have the ingredients to take a run at this thing next year.” To me, the meaning was clear: it's about this winter, but I'm taking it as a lie, until I see otherwise, in terms of actions taken.

Our GMs had no choice. I have clearly stated JH could afford anyone, if he wanted. This isn't about JH's motives. To me, making money is clearly his motive. Yes, the reason we could not compete with the Dodgers, and why we slashed the budget was all about JH's choice to put money over winning. I'm not sure anything I have said counters that or muddies anything. I've never come close to even hinting what they did was "right." It is what JH chose it to be. The GMs might have had some say in how to make the cuts and who stays vs who goes, but it was always about JH & Co. making more money- or "saving it."

I have zero faith in anything the Sox say, and that goes retroactively. It's just my opinion, but I think Bloom was handed a budget that required massive cuts and not replacing Porcello's contract was just a part of it. The only indecision might have been as he sought different ways to reach the budget by keeping Betts, so maybe he didn't outright lie, or by trading him. They probably had no takers for full-price Price, and he soon realized Betts had to go. Maybe he waited to February to maximize season ticket sales, or to wait out any other teams that might offer more than what LAD offered. Reports were that just one other offer was made to Bloom. We ended up cutting $60M from the 2019 budget that was already without our 2 top RP'ers. The writing was on the wall before 2019. I don't think anyone expected slashes like we saw, but I don't think JH ever intended to pay everyone and keep that 2018 team intact. Even if he did, Porcello sucked and never pitched after 2019, Beni declined, quickly, Nate, Sale and ERod missed a lot of starts. Price did next to nothing. It has also been argued that if we never extended Sale and nate, maybe Betts would still be here.

Isn't slashing the budget evidence we "can't compete with the Dodgers" or just saying the same thing in a different way? We traded Betts over finances. We can word it anyway we want. Could we have afforded to pay Betts what LAD did and still met the budget demands? Probably, but we'd have gutted the rest of the team, as we ended up pretty much doing, anyway. Betts wasn't even the beginning of the slashing. While maz keeps pointing out that the 2019 budget was bigger than 2018, that was largely about risings costs of stars that were nearing their big payday and bringing back some guys like Pearce. The fact is, we let Kimbrel and Kelly go without even trying to replace them. Then, it was Betts, 1/2 price and Porcello plus others. The next year it was Beni, JBJ, Workman and others. Eventually, it was nate, JD, Bogey and more. Yes, cutting the budget by huge amounts meant we could not compete with the Dodgers on signing Betts and others on signing other departing stars. I'm seeing clear waters, not muddy ones.

I don't see a search bar or anything that says "Boards."

I was talking to the point about the "indecisiveness" of the choice made comment, namely because we waited until February. While I do think Bloom was kicking around various scenarios of trades, I think the "why" is as clear as day: to meet the budget set by JH. I think Max was right: he knew we could not afford Betts, or if we did try to do it, we'd have had to gut much of the supporting cast as we ended up doing, even with trading Betts w half-Price. We also lost Porcello's contract and a few small to moderate ones, too- replacing all these guys with Martin Perez and scrubs. It was a total tear down that was made even worse by ERod missing 2020 and Sale missing almost all of 2020-2022 or 2023. Remember, we never replace Kimbrel & Kelly, the winter before,. That was just the beginning, as we followed up by letting Beni, JD, ERod, Nate, Bogey and others go, in subsequent years. If that is not proof of the "why," what is? It was obviously about the money. What is the alternative theory? Some quotes about there being not set budget or that Betts was going to return? Like, all of a sudden, we are taking their word as truth? If anything, their word should show the opposite, as we've learned since the trade.

Would the Sox and Rays agree to this trade? 5 years of Abreu + Wikelman or Murphy for Pete Fairbanks RHP ($3.7M in '25 w $7M option for '26 w $1M buyout.) Colin Poche LHP (3rd arb '25)

notin, I went to BTV and can't see how you can see player values without paying. What am I missing?

Ian Browne wrote an article asking 5 Qs on the Sox winter needs. 1. Will they get an ace? "An ace can change the confidence level of the club." 2. How to improve the defense? The "quickest solution" is for Story to play a full season, but also this..."Will Devers be asked to move off 3B?" 3. Can they balance out the lineup? "Look for the Sox to go after two right-handed bats." (Bregman, Adames, Teoscar were named, along with O'Neill.) 4. Is Roman Anthony ready to make the club on Opening Day? "There are a lot of moving parts Breslow has to consider." 5. Will Whitlock move back to the pen? "The guess here is the Whitlock will move back to the pen... Whitlock expressed an openness to do whatever the medical staff thinks will keep him the healthiest."

Yes, I shoulda had a C. All of the above

“I think we’re an offseason away, I really do. I mean, I really believe we have the ingredients to take a run at this thing next year.” -Sam "the man" Kennedy Anyone know what this translates to? A or B? A. "Budget cuts on the way?" B. "Our internal options are ready to fill all our needs."

Of course, JH can "afford" anybody, but the 2020 budget cannot be disputed, either. Had we kept Betts, we'd have had to find a full-Price taker plus someone else to trade, like maybe $JD at $15M a year plus Beni and others.

Agreed. I didn't mean to sound like this was all on the scouts. Bloom, JH & Co. made the final call. I do think a lot of stock is put into what scouts say, and apparently they really liked Yoshida. He may still end up hitting better than he's shown, but $18M for a low-powered DH has to be a guy with a .400+ OBP and a ton of doubles.

He had really declined, but yes, me too. I don't think he ever said, "I retire."

Porcello was a modern day rarity. He pitched 170 IP at age 20, 163 IP at age 21 then never under 170 for the next 9 years.

All scouts swing and miss, sometimes, badly. I think we have made some major changes, already, but I'm not sure about the specific people involved. I am pretty certain it was the scouts who got Bloom to want Yoshida. This is usually the case with all these sort of decisions made.

I've mentioned some teams might want him for $3-6M a year, but how many would pay $6-9M a year? Would anyone want him at $10M a year?

I'm not sure that's why we paid to let Sale pitch for ATL. I do think that is an aspect of the Yoshida trade desire, along with the LHB overload. The Price dump as not about having better pitchers in the system. Our 2020 rotation is a testament to that fact. We paid a chunk of Barnes' deal beyond what Blier cost us. We paid a little of Beni's deal, but saved enough to afford Renfroe (or marwin, if you are a glass half-empty guy.). Am I missing anyone else we paid to play elsewhere, since Carl Crawford? I think we DFA'd Pablito. I think we are all done paying other teams, so why not add Yoshida to the tally?

I think they started "shopping" Betts as soon as the settled on a new GM and had their big strategy talks, which was mostly about how to we make massive slashes to the budget. I don't see waiting until February as evidence of indecision. I think they were trying to do better than the measly off the Dodgers gave, but the found none. The Price aspect of the trade was the kicker.

One massively expensive RHB contract is Trout's. He's way to expensive for JH to pay, and he seems to refuse to be moved from CF, and would likely refuse to DH. He's owed $37M a year until 2030 (6 more years!) His lux tax hit is $35M. Even giving LAA Yoshida at $18M x 3, would hardly put a dent into what Trout is paid and will be worth. He just turned 33 and is always hurt- just what we need, right? Anyway, what might a Yoshida for Trout deal look like? How much money would LAA have to pay, beyond the $54M they get in Yoshida? Would adding T Anderson at 413M x 1, lessen the payback amount and sweeten the pot for the Sox? I think he's owed $222M/6. Minus $54M for Yoshida and Maybe another $54M paid years 4-6 would bring the cost to us down to about $19M a year and $17M CBT. I still would not do it. Add T Anderson, and I'd still say no, even if he agreed to DH fulltime. Trout looks like the next Pujols, or maybe he already is him.

Word was the Sox scouts were drooling over Masa for years. He has not come close to earning his keep, and $18M/yr sets a high bar for a DH to meet. I still think finding a team looking to dump an even bigger salary might be the best was to get something for him, but teams looking to dump salary, will not want Yoshida and his contract. Usually, teams looking to shed salary are rebuilding, and Yoshida is not at a point where he would be part of any rebuild. I'm not even sure many teams would take him for nothing in return at $6-8M a year. Maybe a few might take him at $5-6M a year- maybe a few more at $3-4M a year, but that's a hefty loss to take on anyone. This is becoming an awful habit- paying other teams to take our players.

All of these guys would interest almost every team. What are you getting at?

I do not think we should undersell the loss of Pivetta. He was 4th in IP, this year and 3rd in bWAR. He was a horse in previous seasons. Thinking Gio will match his numbers scares me. Losing our two best RP'ers from 2023-2024 scares me, too. Our pen sucked, even with them. No way, am I counting on Henriks and Fulmer to duplicate their production. At minimum, we need one solid SP'er, who projects to 175+ IP, AND we need two solid RP'ers who can close or be 8th inning set-up men, hopefully one is left-handed. That is 3 must gets. We can also use a RHB defensive catcher, with some pop would be real nice. A one year deal makes the most sense, with Teel nearing ML readiness. Swapping 1-2 LHBs for a RHB would help, too, but what position they'd play is in question (CF, RF, 2B and the already mentioned Catcher positions come to mind.)

Yup. My bad.