moonslav59

Gray would not slot behind Painter at 5 or even Nola at 4. He'd be their #3. Gray might be be our 3, 4 or 5th starter. Our top 4 are as good as PHI's top 4. Some might slot our starters like this... 1. Crochet 2. Tolle 3. Bennett 4/5. Gray/ Suarez fWAR 2026 3.4 Suarez 3.3 Tolle (before today) 3.0 Gray (151 IP) 2.4 Bennett (100 IP) This would pro-rate to 3.6 in 150 IP

The farm went 1-3 on Sunday. Woo got the win as Arias, Romy and Campbell all had 3 hits. Romy at .900, Arias at .880 & Campbell up to .768 after a poor start to 2026.) Ziehl pitched well through 5 IP (1ER, 3H, 1BB, 2Ks) Bastardo got rocked. Samaniego got the loss. POR won 9-7. Godbout had 3 hits (.956) and McDonough stayed hot going 2-5 with 3 rbi. Both homered. GRE lost 4-3 but Finley pitched well (4.2 IP, 1H, 0ER, 3BB, 7K) Schaffner 2-5 w 2B. Hull 1-2 w BB & HBP. SAL lost 10-7 as B Ortiz kinda sucked. Montero did suck (7 hist and 4ERs in 1 IP) Judice walked 5 in 1 IP. Salazar and Coats had 3 hits each. Primera 1-4 w BB

Rays are losing a close game in the 7th. The Yanks are down 3-0 in the 4th. There is still some hope we can catch the Yanks. The Rays would have to collapse to catch them.

I remember wondering if any Sox team had ever done that, and now this!

Indeed. There was strong reason for concern, but these 4 have been solid all years: Gray 2.69 ERA (11th best among pitchers with 99+IP) Suarez 3.44 (35th) Tolle 3.15 (23rd) Bennett 3.34 (29th) 4 pitchers in the top 35 in MLB! (Early is tied with Suarez!)

5 is never enough. Wheeler turns 37 next May, and Painter has a 5.55 ERA/4.66 FIP, and Nola's is 4.93ERA/4.84 FIP and .815 OPS Against. Never count DD out. As far as I know they have close to zero depth. Who has the weakest 5th/6th starter? The Phillies or the Sonny-less Sox? PHI: Wheeler, Sanchez, Nola, Luzardo, Painter, _____ vs BOS: Crochet, Suarez, Tolle, Bennett, Bello, Houck/Crawford/Oviedo

With a splash of Voodoo Chile...

You got that right. I was also concerned due to the 2 young starters already over projected IP'd totals and Suarez & Gray looking shaky or missing a start. There is some truth to the saying that a SP'er is only as good as his last start, but it's not always true. ER totals for the 5 games before these last 3: 16 8 9 7 5

All ten O's batters K'd. While we K'd 11 times, we also drew 5 BBs. That helped outweigh being outhit 5-4.

We beat the 8/7 game of 16 Ks and 0 BBs vs the A's.

RIP Lowell George.

The Dodgers might pivot to Gray, if someone (Mets?) sign Skubal away from them (doubtful.) I could see the Yanks trying to take Gray from BOS. I could see DD trying to sign him for PHI. TOR needs help and spends bigly. ATL, HOU, CHC or even DET could swoop in with a big offer. Shorter term deals attract more teams, and since so many teams feel they are close to being competitive, who knows who might jump out with a big offer. I do think we can sign him, and I think he likes Boston, winning and the strong foundation returning for 2027 and 2028.

10-11 hasn't been enough, but I agree. 2025 looked 12-13+ deep: Crochet, Houck, Buehler, Giolito, Bello, Crawford, Fitts, Dobbins, Newcomb, Dobbins, Early & Tolle. That's 12! We traded Priester (13) and ended up having to add D May, Harrison and used Criswell & Bernardino in 4 starts combined. (Plus, Sandoval was supposed to return by AUG-SEPT) 2025 looked 11-12 deep but stronger: Crochet, Suarez, Gray, Bello, Crawford, Houck, Sandoval, Oviedo, Early, Tolle, Bennett & Uberstine. We've started 11 games with Rivera, Moran, Gamboa, Samaniego, Miller and Paez. We did NOT trade for a starter but could have.

3 days ago, the sky was falling on our rotation.

17 Ks by the O's. 12 in 6 by Tolle! Just give me Weeds, White and Wongs...

Agreed. All Gms make mistakes, and often they are in hindsight only or partially. The Sale trade was his worst, but it had serious merit when made. To those who hated it day one- hats off to you, but there was good reason to trade a guy who was hurt for a half decade. I'll leave it at that. Many other trades looked bad out of the gate, but are now looking better or even flipped into the looking good side. He radically improved the whole pitching system- from top to bottom- in just a few short years. Posters used to talk about Lester being the last significant pitcher from the system. Jon joined the Sox in 2006. He built up the farm, almost by himself and wasn't afraid to use it to add competent vets. DD usd the farm well, but did not build it up. Ben and Bloom built up the farm pretty well, but rarely used it to boost up the 26 man roster. Brez has done both. Brez has yet to add a terrible big contract. Suarez could morph into one. The Bello and KC deals could end up bad, but they are not making more than $17M AAV combined. That's less than Story and Yoshida by themselves. The Rafaela & Anthony deals look good. Sure, deals like Buehler and Sandoval look bad, but they were short deals, and Buehler is looking okay, now, so maybe the stab in the dark just missed by a few months. (Same with the D May trade.) Brez has some bad luck with the Mead trade, and some could argue the Sale remaking of himself was impossible to project, and this from the guy who coined the "Freaking Chris Sale" phrase. To me, this isn't even the best part of his tenure here. While DD built a great team, and I have zero beefs with him, the team was set up to move towards a point where massive cash or prospect infusions would be needed to sustain beyond the 4-5 year window (2016 or 2017 to 2019 or 2020.) While DD proved right in trading away many top prospects that amounted to squat and kept many that turned out better than the ones he dealt (Houck, Duran, Crawford & Devers to name 4,) the team was aging by 2019 and 2020, with few prospects ready to fill in and an owner not willing to become the Dodgers Atlantic style. DD was handed a really nice core of young stars from Betts, Bogey, JBJ and an upcoming Devers, but he had to build the staff from near nothing. The big plus by Brez is having so many good players locked up for 2-3-4 and even more years. Here is a brief look at locked up players under DD and Bloom: 2016: Price 7, Pedey & Rusney, 5, Porcello & Pablo 4, HRam & Kimbrel 3 and a young core of Betts, Bogey, JBJ, ERod, Vaz, Barnes & Workman. Shorter deals: Papi, Buch, Uehara, Young 2018: Price & JD 5, Pedey & Vaz 4- the same young core from above but 2 less years of control and shorter deals: Sale & Porcello 2, HRam, Kelly & Kimbrel 1 2020: (injuries and Covid took it's toll, but you can see the control years dwindling & Betts was traded) Sale 5-6, JD, Nate & Bogey 3. That's it! 2 yrs: Erod, Pedey, Perez, Vaz, Beni, Barnes & Moreland 2022: Story 6, Sale 3-4 and basically nobody else signed beyond 2023. We had some guys under control via arbs, but nowhere near the young core of 2016 or even 2028, except for Devers, Duran, Houck & Crawford (Casas/Dalbec...) The team Brez took over had long term deals like Devers, Story & Yoshida with 1-2 years of Sale and a bunch of one and dones like Jansen, Martin, Verdugo & Pivetta. 7 yrs: Anthony 6-8: Campball 5 yrs: Crochet, Rafaela, Tolle, Bennett, Durbin, Sogard, Gasper, Moran, Seigler, Cheng, Gamboa 4 yrs: Suarez, Mead, Jones 3 yrs: Abreu, Miller, Bello (+1?) Monasterio, Slaten, Weissert, Kelly 2 yrs: Contreras, Whitlock, Romy, Casas, Duran, Crawford, White & Wong 1 yr: Chapman, Rutschman, Guerrero, Houck, Oviedo, Story (+1?) Yoshida 0-1 yr: Gray FAs: Sandoval, IKF It's rather amazing.

Max, you are no troll. You sometimes say things in the heat of emotions, but more often you talk others down off the irrational ledge.

Tolle has proven to be the real deal. If he can limit the HRs per IP, he could be a top 10 pitcher in MLB. (He's pretty close, now.) He's top 20 in fWAR with less IP than everyone above him, except Skubal. He was 15th in FIP and 16th in ERA before today.

Who has "enough rotation" already? Once could argue the Sox have as much or better than anyone else. When the Dodgers extend Skubal, that gives them the best and maybe deepest if you go to 6 or 7. I like out 7-8-9 as much as anybody else's, but I admit I'm not expert on other team's rosters. Plus, how to value pitchers currently on the IL is not an exact science. Hell, valuing healthy ones is complex, enough. Options also add a wrinkle, and Gray's option is a perfect example. Does he count as a Sox 2027 starter? 2027 Outlook (Let me know if I missed anyone on other teams) BOS: Crochet, Suarez, Gray, Tolle, Bennett Bello, Houck, Crawford, Oviedo______ LAD: Yamamoto, Ohtani, Glasnow, Snell, Wrobleski Sasaki, Stone, Lauer, Sheehan_______ NYY: Schlitter, Fried, Cole, Rodon, Warren Weathers, Schmidt, Elmer Rod, Gil____ PHI: Wheeler, Sanchez, Nola, Luzardo, Painter Rangel, ______, _______, ______ That Dodger rotation looks better, and with Skubal, it's a lock. The Phillies top 4 looks great, but they lack depth. The Yankee rotation is about as injury prone as ours and the Dodgers. If we lose Gray, we'll need an add to keep pace.

There is talk of sharing broadcast revenue, but 100% is not likely. I could see them agreeing to each team shares 50%, so the big markets still get to keep more but the small markets will get a big share they currently don't get. To me, when the Rays play at the Dodgers, they should get 50% of the TV money. There would be no game without opponents.

June 18th is not when we turned on the afterburners, but it represents the date whereby we played more games after than before. (72 games after and 71 games before) MLB Numbers since June 18th W-L 49-23 BOS 44-27 TBR 42-26 CHC 43-29 MIL 40-28 PHI The teams most talked about? LAD 37-30 & NYY 36-34. Runs 421 CWS 360 BOS 337 MIL 336 WSH 333 PHI The Yanks are 28th at 263! Runs Allowed 263 DET 264 BOS (1 run from first) 267 NYY 275 ATL 280 LAD/PHI 282 TBR, 283 MIL, 284 MIA, 285 BAL ________________________ OPS .815 CHC (astounding!) .763 WSH (52 behind first) .761 BOS (1st in AL) .751 TBR ERA- 75 NYY 78 BOS 83 DET 87 MIL & TBR ____________________ wRC+ 126 CHC 111 SDP 110 BOS (1st in AL) 108 TBR, TEX & WSH FIP 3.49 BOS 3.65 NYY 3.69 BAL _______________ I've seen many a poster use smaller sample sizes than this to make points, but 72 games is pretty impressive. Move the period to the start of the historic stretch, and we look even better than we already do, here. Yes, 27 games is pretty long too and 13-14 is concerning, but that is precise cherry-picking, since we are also 13-9 in the last 22 and 4-2 in the last 6. After today's game with BAL, we play... 3 v LAA Day Off 3 v KCR Day Off (Nice to have two days off before the last road trip) 3 at TEX 3 at TBR Day Off 3 v CLE 3 v CHC (THose last 9 games are rough, but we play 12 of the last 18 at home. 19 games to go and... 7.5 GB TBR who is not stumbling 4.0 GB NYY who is struggling but took those 3 of 4 from us. +6 on TOR & CLE (tied for last WC slot) +8 on TEX +9 on BAL

I might argue Brez deserves an extension as much as Tracy. if not more.

It will likely be a win-win by both sides. The "Floor" clause could be supplemented by increased revenue spending, and the sharing of local TV money talked about would do just that, thereby allowing the lower budget teams to spend more without a whole lot of their own money. The players could get higher min salaries, shorter waits for arb and less arbs before they can become FAs. Roster expansion would be a big plus for players, too, especially the 40. If they raised the minimum salary from $780K to $1.6M and adjusted the pro-rated formula to help the little guys, that would get a large percentage of players to go for any deal- hard/soft cap or not. I doubt they end up with any sort of hard cap, even with a floor being added. I am not as certain as many here that a work stoppage that affects the season will occur.

$30M/1 with $27M option year 2 with $6M buy out. Essentially: $36M/1 or $57M/2. Maybe... $27M yr 1, $25M year 2 with $25M option year 3 with $4M buy out. Essentially $56M/2 or $77M/3

Also, he turns 37 and a lockout is pending. That being said, I'd extend him a year with a second year team option with a meaningful buyout.