moonslav59

What's the better plan? $17M x 5 Moustakas (Move Devers to 1B) $12M x 4 Alex Cobb $7M x 3 Bryan Shaw $6M x 2 Jarrod Dyson or $15M x 3 Santana $12M x 4 Akex Cobb $7M x 3 Bryan Shaw $7M x 2 E Nunez

Do whatever it takes. What are your thoughts on this... $17M x 5 Moustakas (Move Devers to 1B) $12M x 4 Alex Cobb $7M x 3 Bryan Shaw $6M x 2 Jarrod Dyson

Shaw would be a nice signing. JBJ is one of my favorite players, and I'd hate to trade him, but if the return was good enough, then getting JD makes more sense. 6 years is a lot though. Of all these players, I kind of think Santana or Moustakas is the best for the money & years. $25M/yr and $150M/6 JD Martinez $22M/yr and $132M/6 Hosmer $21M/yr and $42M/2 Cozart $17M/yr and $85M/5 Moustakas $15M/yr and $45M/3 Santana $12M/yr and $36M/3 Morrison

Tanaka decides to stay with the Yanks- does not opt out.

Say it ain't so!

Deep down, I do "feel it", and it's making me physically sick-- maybe it's just all the Halloween candy. Signing JD quickly would greatly lessen the chances Hosmer is signed. Come on DD- get JD day one!!!!

I can see why Hosmer is high on some people's lists, but I am hoping and praying we do NOT sign him. He will get too many years, and he doesn't have a long enough history of doing 2017 well. Too risky. Santana has a longer history of doing very well and rates to get maybe half the years as well as less per year. BTW, MLBTR projects Duda getting $6M/1- about what Moreland got.

For argument's sake, let's say the Sox can spend $45M a year on free agents this year, and any free agent would sign with us, if we offered what MLBTR projects their offer to be, who would you sign? Complete list: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/2017-18-top-50-mlb-free-agents-with-predictions.html $25M/yr and $150M/6 JD Martinez $13M/yr and $39M/3 J Bruce $22M/yr and $132M/6 Hosmer $15M/yr and $45M/3 Santana $12M/yr and $36M/3 Morrison $17M/yr and $85M/5 Moustakas $21M/yr and $42M/2 Cozart $26.7M/yr and $160M/6 Darvish $25M/yr and $100M/4 Arrieta $20M/yr and $100M/5 Tanaka $14M/yr and $56M/4 L Lynn $12.5M/yr and $50M/4 G Holland $12M/yr and $60M/5 Wade Davis $7M/yr and $21M/3 Bryan Shaw Red= MLBTR projected landing place I like the JD Martinez, Morrison, Shaw idea ($44M) , but I wonder if this would be better: $17M Moustakas $15M Santana $7M Shaw $6M J Dyson (OF)

The vast majority of big FA signings end up being big disappointments- many from day one. I'm not sure I'd use the word "amazing" to think some people feel Price might end up being one, too. I agree, if he does well enough to opt out, then it will be hard to replace him "in kind", but maybe we get someone younger or without the threat of his arm falling off. Of course, such a pitcher will cost more or not be as good. I get your argument.

Assuming he has a big year, there's still a significant chance he falls short of his pay the last few years of his contract, even in open market FA dollars. It's possible we could replace him with someone better at the same of less cot, if he ends up declining steeply after he opts out..

I'm driving that wagon!

I see nothing wrong with giving past GMs credit for some of the new GMs successes and failures, but trying to quantify it is very subjective. To me, I do not think making the Sale trade was all that difficult. Certainly, one could argue that Ben would not have done it. I get that, but there would have been no Sale trade without Moncada and Kopech- two Ben guys. Ben deserves some of the "credit" for DD having the resources to pull the trigger on that trade 9and others).

Theo 5.3 Betts 3.2 Bogey 2.3 JBJ 1.9 Pedey 1.6 Vaz 1.0 Barnes 0.4 Lin Ben 2.2 Beni 2.1 ERod 2.0 Porcello 0.9 Devers 0.7 Kelly 0.5 Hembree 0.3 Leon DD 7.7 Sale 3.3 Kimbrel 3.1 Pom 1.5 Price 1.4 Fister 1.2 Nunez 0.4 Boyer' 0.3 Abad 0.3 Maddox Now, one could argue that Ben traded away several big WAR Theo players and DD traded away many top prospects that Ben acquired in order to obtain many of our top WAR players.

I understand why they let Robbie Ross go. He's coming off a serious injury and would have had a substantial arb cost. In some ways, Ross was our most consistent and effective pitcher from 2015 to 2016. He gave us 55+ innings both years. He walked a few too many guys to be an elite RP'er, but he filled a need very nicely for the Sox. Good luck, Robbie. OPS Against 2015 .729 (.649 v LHBs) 2016 .624 (.545 v LHBs)

So, the cost differential on Gallardo was $11M ($13M -$2M buyout). Close call. I agree on H.I.

As expected, the Sox exercised the options on Sale ($12.5M) & Kimbrel ($13M). Robbie Ross and Josh Rutledge elected free agency after being outrighted. Bryce Brentz and Williams Jerez were added to the 40 man roster (now at 37 as players come off the 60 day DL). Here's the 37 man roster: Betts, Beni, Devers, JBJ, Bogey Sale, Kimbrel, Pomeranz ERod (will be on the 60 day DL), Pedroia, Vazquez Price, Porcello, HRam Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Wright, Maddox, Workman, Thornburg (starts on 60-day DL?),Scott, Johnson, Velazquez, Taylor Travis, Hernandez, Lin, Leon Bubble: Brentz (May sign in Japan) Marrero Holt (with Pedey out, will likely stay) Hembree (out of options) Jerez Elias Swihart (utility man?) Owens (The first to go?) Here's the rule 5 eligible list: Victor Acosta Yoan Aybar Trey Ball Jeremy Barfield Jalen Beeks Danny Bethea Jordan Betts Ty Buttrey Rusney Castillo Harrison Cooney Jake Cosart Enmanuel De Jesus Jhonathan Diaz Willis Figueroa Pat Goetze Daniel Gonzalez Justin Haley Juan Hernandez Bryan Hudson Dedgar Jimenez Raiwinson Lameda Deiner Lopez Isaias Lucena Danny Mars Kyle Martin Algenis Martinez Kevin McAvoy Daniel McGrath Ritzi Mendoza Mike Meyers Mike Miller Samuel Miranda Joseph Monge Jhon Nunez Justin Pacchioli Yankory Pimentel Jordan Procyshen Hildemaro Requena Jeremy Rivera Fernando Rodriguez Jake Romanski Chandler Shepherd Josh Smith Teddy Stankiewicz Cole Sturgeon Aneury Tavarez Carlos Tovar Marcus Walden Jordan Weems Jantzen Witte Minor League Free Agents Brian Bogusevic Dan Butler Ryan Court Jacob Dahlstrand Matt Dominguez Conrad Gregor Shawn Haviland Kyle Kendrick Heiker Meneses Edgar Olmos Mike Olt Mitchell Osnowitz Tim Roberson Steve Selsky Jose Sermo Herny Urrutia Elih Villaneuva

So, your team said no to Iwakuma and Gallardo. Your thoughts?

Jeffery Todd commented that if the Sox sign the 3 players MLBTR projects they will (JD Martinez, Logan Morrison and Bryan Shaw, they will then trade JBJ. He didn't suggest for whom. (My guess is a SP'er.) 1. Bogey SS 2. Betts RF 3. Beni CF 4. JD Martinez LF 5. Morrison 1B 6. Devers 3B 7. HRam DH 8. Pedey 2B 9. Vaz C

Then the fell short of expectations. The three Dodgers obtained from the Sox did not make meaningful contributions to all 5 winning years. 15 total WAR over 12 contract years at untold millions of dollars was not a success. The Dodgers could have won more by better spending those dollars. They paid CC $21M to sit at home this year. That's Pabloesque. They still owe AGon over $20M next year, and he might be the back-up 1Bman. I'm not saying I'd rather have HRam and Pablo than AGon, but that's not the real or only comp that should be made. The Sox won a ring with the money saved. We'd be have been screwed had we not dumped those salaries. I'm surprised that's even up for debate. The "contributions" the three players made to the Dodgers was okay at first, but even the first two years were disappointments. I doubt their combined value ever exceeded their combined salaries, even if their so-so years. The ends of their deals were atrocious, and only the fact that the Dodgers could spend like maniacs kept them winning- not these three guys.

All I wrote was that the Dodgers "survived" the trade by advancing to the postseason five straight years with contributions from Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in some of those years. The trade was not the Dodger disaster some Red Sox fans make it out to be. The Dodgers could afford the burnt salary. I'm not sure I've heard anyone rant about how the trade hurt the Dodgers. It was more about how we got out of having to pay almost all of their contracts. BTW, you did say more than just what the two of the players did in a few select year. You hinted that Sox players did worse. Napoli and nava did better than AGon & CC, and if you add Beckett to the equation, there's just no way anyone can spin that the "contributions" were worth it. Since the trade, the Dodgers have posted a 491-355 (.580) regular-season record while the Red Sox have posted a 441-405 (.521) record with two last-place finishes. Teams can win despite having under performing players and busts. We won despite Lugo. Boston fans can continue their long-standing tradition of dissing departed Red Sox players but Carl Crawford earned his 2013 and 2014 salaries with the Dodgers, according to fWAR salary conversion: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...ition=OF#value You always seem to selectively choose the sample sizes to fit your position. Even those two years from CC were not that great, and the rest of his deal more than offset those two years. Then you talk of AGon and CC's 2-13 years and compare it to the Sox lack of big WAR players in 2017. CC didn't even play the last year of his contract (2017) and AGon is a shell of his former self. Why not compare 2017 AGon & CC to what we replaced them with? or, 2013 CC and AGon to what we had at 1b and LF in 2013? Isn't that more fair? AGon was clearly a big disappointment- no if, and, or buts. The fact that he had a couple decent years does not take away from the overall fizzle. BTW, I still have very good feelings towards several ex-Sox players, but I'm not disputing how many Sox fans like to roast ex Sox players.

I have no beef with Beckett. I even think the whole chicken gate was blown out of proportion and too much blame was placed on JB. I only have two Sox jerseys with a player's name on the back: one is Ortiz and the other is Beckett. I still wear my Beckett jersey with pride as I mow my lawn.

Come on harmony, any Dodger fan or executive would tell you Crawford was a total unequivocal bust with us and LA. (5.0 total WAR in 5 years on the books. Christ, we paid a dollar to get Nava, and he gave us more than that!) The money they paid him, even with the amount we paid was still a terrible deal for them. AGon was a disappointment. (9.6 total WAR in 5 years) You also conveniently neglected to mention Beckett who racked up a massive WAR total of 0.5 in 2 years. All totaled, they got about 15 WAR for 12 contract years at a high rate of pay. How you can try to sugar coat it baffles me. FYI, some Sox WAR numbers at 1B and LF from 2013 to 2017 at fractions of the cost of the clowns we traded. 3.9 Napoli 1B 2013 2.6 Nava LF 2014 2.4 Napoli 1B 2014 Team WAR at 1B and LF 1B 2013: 5.2 2014: 1.0 2015: 1.7 2016: 4.3 2017: 0.9 Total: 12.1 LF 2013: 4.2 2014: 3.1 2015: 0.0 (The HRam disaster) 2016: 2.2 2017: 1.9 Total: 11.4 Then, there's Beckett, who is harder to compare... 2013 Dempster 0.5 or Doubront 2.2 2014 DLR 0.4 or Webster 0.3 or Masterson 0.1 2015 Miley 2.6 or ERod 1.7 or Kelly 1.2/R Hill 1.1 2016 Wright 2.7 or ERod 1.2 2017 Fister 1.3 So, the Dodgers still won, despite the trade. That doesn't mean it was a good trade for them. It sucked for them and was great for us.

Leaves us very close to the second level luxury tax penalty- probably over, unless we cut or trade some salary. Kinda squeezes out HRam, unless we trade an OF'er (JBJ for a pitcher?). I like the plan. 1. Bogey SS 2. Betts RF 3. Beni LF 4. Martinez DH 5. Morrison 1B 6. Devers 3B 7. Pedey 2B 8. JBJ CF 9. Vaz C Bench: HRam, Leon, Hernandez, and one from Lin/Swihart/Holt/Marrero/Travis S1 Sale S2 Price S3 Pom S4 Porcello S5 Wright>ERod (Johnson/Velazquez/Beeks/Elias/Haley) R1 Kimbrel R2 Shaw R3 Smith R4 Kelly R5 Barnes R6 Maddox R7 Workman/Hembree/Scott/Johnson/Taylor

MLBTR came out with it's top 50 Free Agent Projected Destination Page. JD Martinez ($150M/6, Logan Morrison ($36M/3) & Bryan Shaw ($21M/3) to the Sox ($44M total per year) Moustakas to ATL Santana back to CLE Cozart to SD Darvish to Cubs Arrieta to MIL Tanaka to Philly CC Sab back to NYY/ A Avila to NYY A Cobb to MN Hosmer back to KC L Lynn TEX L Cain to SFG Wade Davis to HOU

No thanks to CC, Beckett and even AGon.