moonslav59

Buddha

Nice win. Porcello is my 5th starter right now. I'm actually close to feeling more confidence in handing Price the ball in game 4 of the playoffs than Porcello or Fister. We gotta hope our big 3 (Sale, Pom & ERod) get us to at least a 2-1 lead. I'd still like to see Devers bat 4th or 5th, but I have no big beef with the line-ups lately. Loved seeing the Yanks get bombed.

Making the top dog team sit for a whole series may not be that helpful. Sure, a bye is better than playing, but I don't like it. We can't let 16 out of 30 teams make it. I think the one game play-in for the two scrub teams is fair and not time consuming. I suppose you could have 3 wild card teams and make the worst division winner play a one game play-in. (6 teams make it in each league or 12 out of 30)

I got no stress in my life. Maybe that's what's wrong with me.

I agree, and I hope we will say the same about Pom-Espi. Here's a look back at the Beckett trade: HRam with FLA 2006 .292 /.353/ .480/ .833 (51 SB) ROY 2007 .332/ .386/ .562/ .948 29 HR (51 SB) 10th MVP 2008 .301/ .400/ .540/ .940 33 HR(35 SB) 11th MVP 2009 .342/ .410/ .543/ .954 24 HR (27 SB) 2nd MVP signed extension Anibal Sanchez 2006 10-3 2.83 (17 GS) 1.19 WHIP 2007 Injured 2008 2-5 5.57 (10 GS) 1.57 2009 4-8 3.87 (16 GS) 1.51 2010 13-12 3.55 (32 GS) 1.34 2011 8-9 3.67 (32 GS) 1.29 (He later led the AL in ERA and FIP in 2013)

I agree, but it also has something to do with the team's success, rightly or wrongly. Example: no Sox fan complains about trading HRam & Anibal Sanchez for Beckett & Lowell, even though looking at just years of team control and production given, HRam and Sanchez probably did better. Did the Marlins win the trade? I wouldn't say yes, or I might say both teams won.

Ok..but I think we can get bogged down in the details too. Keeping Espinoza in the hope that he'd be ready in 2019 could very well affect the acquisitions we make in 2018 and what their performance is in 2019, 2020, and until Espinoza is actually ready to pitch again. How do we figure that into the equation? I'm not fully judging the trade until Espi's team control ends with SD.

He's looked real good pretty much every other start for 10 games. I guess that's good enough for most posters.

I did answer the part about 5 innings. On the 4 and 5 days rest? I don't know, but I'm sticking to the common sense idea that tells me more rest helps those that are fatigued.

Because we should not judge a trade in hind sight until the team control of all players expires. It would be like me saying we didn't actually need Pom last year, because he ended up sucking, and we won anyways.

Spinmaster extraordinaire Keep believing extra rest does not help alleviate fatigue, at least to some extent. Of course, it guarantees nothing, but clearly team management sees that benefit of resting players when they can. This debate should be about "if we can" or "if we should" and NOT about spinning whether rest actually helps players or not.

Nobody knows if extra rest does any good anyway. Yeah, let's play everyone 162 games and start Sale every other day. It's absurd to think extra rest is a cure for fatigue.

No, I said his sample size was inconclusive due mostly to its size. Sale's after may decline numbers are a much larger sample size.

I clearly said "positional rankings" not "player rankings". Fangraphs has Beni listed as the 10th best LF'er by WAR. (Some listed may play more of another OF position.)

I'm always okay with getting an (another) ace. I do think getting a clean-up hitter is the number one priority. I think Price might be that ace we "acquire", or Porcello might go 2016 on us again. It amazes me that Quintana and Gray were dealt shortly after Sale. It's not often 3 aces are dealt within a few months of each other.

Too funny!

I jokingly suggested Moreland. I'd have gone with Velazquez for as long as I could, then maybe Price for 2 and/or Workman for 2, maybe use Elias, if needed, and then go to the normal pen knowing we had the next day off. Not only would Sale get 2 days rest for his next start, instead of 1, so would everyone else, unless we wanted to realign starters for the playoffs.

This whole thing started when I said he shouldn't have even started 2 days ago. Of course, if I didn't want him started, I'd be for limiting his innings, if he did start. I addressed that point made by others.

None of the "burn out Sale" posters are addressing this realistically. "Not stressful innings" "JF consulted with Sale, and he wanted to keep pitching, so that makes it all okay" "Big game motivates him for the playoffs" all are hogwash.

I have not "pretended" to we shouldn't try to win the division. We have over a 90% chance of winning. I have been very clear that my idea does slightly lessen our chances to win the division. How is that "pretending?"

If his numbers have taken a major drop because of fatigue, how do you know that one skipped start is enough to turn him around? I don't. Just like you don't know that we need him to start 2 more games instead of 1. It seems like common sense that more rest will lessen the chance for fatigue-related worse starts going forward. If you want to argue otherwise, I'm listening. Also, my idea was not just about 1 game. I wanted him getting extra days off 1-2 starts before his last one, but even if we had pushed him to tonight, he'd have gotten 2 extra days off before his last start and 1 extra before our first playoff game. The plan now is 1 extra day before his next start and none before the last game of the season, if needed. If we don't need him, he will get 4 extra days rest, which I do not like the idea of. Getting all his rest at once might cause rustiness. It's possible that the Guardians have figured him out. The two games against them is enough to skew his numbers for the last 6 weeks. You guys are grasping at straws. Even if you throw out the two bad CLE starts, he's had 3 bad starts out of the last 6. (11 ERs in 18 IP in those 3 starts) He hasn't given up more than 4 runs to any team, besides the two games against the Tribe. I'm more inclined to believe that he's tipping pitches, rather than he's feeling tired whenever he faces them. Okay, ignore his whole career that shows steady decline after may and then a steeper decline in SEP to concoct another narrative. You could give him a week's rest and the Guardians will probably still light him up in the playoffs. And maybe risk rustiness. Better to spread out the rest over 2-3 weeks and just lose the possibility of him pitching game 162, if needed. Nope. The Yankees (the other team that has given him fits lately) have hit him pretty well too. When he gave up 8 hits and 3 runs to them in May, was he tired then too? Clearly, no. He has no history of tiring in May. may is his best month.... maybe he tipped his pitches...lol. Rant as much as you like, but the Sox are going to do the right thing and concentrate on winning the division, THEN worry about the playoffs. Grasp all you want. History shows he declines near year end. It's not a stretch to assume it may be fatigue related and then be proactive about lessening the chance of fatigue in the guy we will need to carry us on his back in the playoffs. The burn him out rants disguised as motivational strategies, record reaching priorities (300Ks), and "JF consulted with him" are neglecting the true goal: winning a ring in a 3-4 year window.

I did not even want him to start that game. I'd have given him 2 days rest, which would have allowed him to get 2 days off before his final start of the regular season and then an extra day before game 1. Once they started him, I'd have pulled him after 3 or 4 inning- 5 tops.

Sox positional rankings by WAR 4th RF 4.7 13th SS 2.5 16th 2B 2.4 17th C 1.7 10th out of 15 DH -0.7 21st CF 2.4 21st LF 1.6 22nd 1B 1.1 28th 3B 0.5 The OF as a whole ranks 9th at 9.3.

No, I see the huge advantage of winning the division, despite WC teams winning a ring during this short time. I have acknowledged that my idea lessens our odds of winning the division slightly. I feel this slight decrease in those odds are worth it, since we aren't going to win a ring- the ultimate goal- without Sale doing better than 50-50 great starts-bad starts, which has been his pattern over the last 10 games. I have heard very little to no acknowledgement from "the other side" that not resting Sale more increases the odds that he will not pitch as well in the playoffs. Evidence shows over Sale's career, he declines sharply in Aug/Sept/Oct. This year's numbers show and even sharper decline. His career numbers with an extra day's rest or more blow away his other numbers. It's not even close, yet there is very close to no acknowledgement of those facts- other than some lip service about the White Sox being out of it every year, so maybe Sale wasn't trying. It couldn't possibly be fatigue related is the inference I'm getting. Nope. Not a chance. Win now. Pitch Sale 8 innings and 111 pitches so he can reach 300. Explain it away as those 111 pitches being non stressful. Explain it as a motivational piece- as if Sale needs motivation for the upcoming playoffs. The guys is a beast and he needs to be set up to maximize his playoff success. It's a valid argument with lots of supporting evidence that is being selective ignored or poo-poo'd by those who feel increasing our odds of winning the division by 1-2% (maybe) and getting Sale 300 ks, at the expense of possible burning out the one guy that has nearly single-handedly carried us through the season is singularly important. It was not a slam dunk choice. If it was (within the organization), I have less faith in Sox management than before.

Stats say rest him. Common sense says rest him. Many championship teams rested key players at some point.