moonslav59

The Phillies do have a few promising young players. Hellickson was their only SP'er over 26 who had 4 or more starts. GS Pitcher Age 27 Nola 24 24 Eickhoff 26 8 Thompson 23 15 Lively 25 15 Velasquez 25 (was injured) 11 Leiter 26 26 Pivetta 24 Their 8 leading PA players were all under 28. They had a couple over an .800 OPS, which is more than we can say. Of their 12 players with over 200 PAs, 4 were over .800, and 6 were over .777. Some very high draft picks could start paying off at some point.

But, how do we know for sure what was mostly Larry or Theo or Larry or Ben? I prefer to either blame or praise the whole organization or just blame the GM for everything- good and bad. This walking the fine line and blaming one for this and the other for that is just conjecture until you have both people admitting it was a certain way. Maybe I missed something, but I've never heard bot sides agree on who was to blame or praise for certain moves.

...and no first overall picks like the Astros got during their "rebuild."

I've explained my position on Dempster, and we've had this discussion enough times to not have to rehash. Dempster and Masterson did not have the seasons Peacock and Morton just had. That's one reason Ben failed. Dempster did well enough as our 5th starter, and he helped us win in 2013, but he was paid like a number 3. We were lucky he retired, although the money saved was wasted. My point is that Ben built a formidable farm system. I doubt he was going to keep every last one. There was no place for all of them to play anyways. His big downfall was that he was given a budget to keep winning while we rebuilt, and he failed miserably on that front- or his players failed him. I say this because many of the same players who "failed" Ben did way better the next year under DD- most notably Porcello and HRam. Had DD not been given the farm and core young players Ben left him, there's have been no rebuilding and no two division wins. Had DD been forced to take Bobby V as his manager, what then? Ben was no saint, but he does not deserve the unqualified wrath that many seem to continuously throw his way.

How do we ever know for sure? To me, it's just easier to blame or praise the whole organization, and if you want to pin it on one guy, then blame/praise just the GM.

Where did I say you said we need to stop looking? Mistakes are made on players we see every day. They are also made on players they only had film on. Sometimes teams strike gold- like Abreu and Maeda. I'm sorry, if it sounded like I was saying you thought we should stop taking chances on signing players.

You don't know that. I seriously doubt his plan was to keep every last prospect. Look, Ben made some horrible mistakes. Instead of Morton and Peacock, he got Masterson and Dempster. Instead of Reddick and McCann, he got Pablo & HRam. There's no denying he botched some things up real badly.

Houston was built largely by NOT trading away their top prospects and making some strategic signings.. Ben was attempting to build a team in a similar manner, and the rug was pulled out before the prospects matured. He made some horrible signings.

They can use Morton or McCullers (whoever is not the game 7 starter) and even Keuchel, if needed.

Teams go wrong evaluating veteran MLB players when signing free agents. It's not some major surprise they go wrong on guys like Castillo. It doesn't mean you stop looking for players and acquiring them based on a couple of failures. We paid a lot for Moncada and got Sale for him (and others).

Best game I've ever seen, not counting epic Sox wins.

If he's given $40M to spend this winter, and Price stays healthy,then I'd say we have a good 2 year window left. We should make the playoffs both years where just about anything goes. I don't really disagree with your assessment, but I think Larry was involved in a lot of Theo's moves, too but is always blamed for just the bad ones.

Ahhh, come on! Take all our duds and a prospect for Cruz! HRam, Holt, Hembree and Travis. If the Mariners had no chance at winning next year, they might have looked at 3 years of JBJ, HRam, Hembree and a couple prospects (Chavis, Travis or Beeks?)for Cruz as possible.

Keeping Lackey one more year would not have made a difference. Keeping Lester or signing Scherzer, instead of HRam & Pablo could have made a difference. Keeping Peavy and Doubront would not have helped at all going forward. I loved the Miller trade, but had hoped we signed him that winter. The big screw up was the low ball offer to Lester. Once that was done, I think Ben was boxed into getting something for players he was going to lose anyways. I disagreed with some of the deals he ended up making, but I think the whole "blowing up the rotation" mantra is a bit of s stretch. We needed hitting that winter, too. It's highly doubtful, we'd have won a ring by spending on Lester or Scherzer, keeping Lackey one more year and not having anything to spend on hitting. In hindsight, sure, sign Lester and Cruz and maybe we have a shot.

Santana has about the same power as Moreland, but he is much better at getting on base. He did have 34 Hrs in 2016, so maybe... Getting just Santana is probably not going to boost our offense enough, and it makes you look around and ask what's another position we can significantly upgrade now that 1B is filled. I see replacing JBJ as a realistic idea. We won't mess with our catchers. I doubt we look to replace Pedey at 2B with Cozart or by trading for Dozier. The other position might be to basically write off HRam and sign a DH (JD Martinez or Duda) and Santana. Could we sign JD or Upton and Santana, then trade JBJ and a prospect for a solid pitcher? That way HRam still DHs.

Maybe I missed it, but I never saw an actual offer for Bryce Harper. I'd trade Bogey, Travis and Groome in a heartbeat for Stanton. I'd would not make the Ozuna trade (ERod, JBJ and Travis ot sub someone for Travis) Chad Finn thinks this is what it would take to get Stanton, and I'd say no: "Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers and more in return." Another says JBJ, Chavis, Houck and Ockimey. I'd say yes. They hint at trading JBJ and Travis or ERod for Abreu. I'd rather sign a 1Bman, although Abreu is the real deal. Chad Jennings suggests we sign JD Martinez. He thinks we might have to give up Beni or Devers to get Stanton. He talks of Howie Kendrick to cover for Pedey and then transition to 4th OF'er mode or Chase Utley to boost the clubhouse with some "leadership." He mentions maybe trying to get Profar among others but no specific offers mentioned

Exactly. I began as a Sox fan in the early 70's. I thought I might go my whole life never experiencing seeing my beloved Sox win a ring. 2004 was cathartic. 2007 was buttah! 2013 started making me think there will be more to come. Beckett was "the Man" in the 2007 playoffs for us, as he was for the Marlins. He could have gone 0-50 after that, and I'd still have always had good thoughts more than bad about him. Same with Vic to a lesser extent.

Then, there are big "chokes" like Bonds who suddenly become "clutch". Then, there are big "clutch" players like Beckett who become "chokes". I'm not buying it.

Find a trade that brings us a solid clean-up hitter.

I seriously doubt it, but an injury here and there, and...

That was the deal I hated the most at the time. Since closer contracts have sky-rocketed, the deal looks better. Kimbrel's 2016 was pretty good but not outstanding. His play this year certainly upped the balance on the trade. My position on the trade was that we gave too many good prospects for a RP'er making free agent type money at the time. I had nothing against Kimbrel. I projected him staying a top 3 closer for the remainder of his contract. I also disliked the Pom trade. I was okay with the Price deal, because we were desperate for an ace. I liked the Thornburg trade. I liked the Smith trade that involved just J. Aro as a prospect. I absolutely loved the Sale trade.Smith trade. All trades but the Thornburg one look good, so far, but the jury is still out on all but maybe the

I'm glad we traded for him, even though we "gave up the farm" to get Josh and Mike. I still have my Beckett jersey. That being said, Ben was given a couple albatross contracts- same as DD.

He wanted to come to Boston. He was willing to play LF, but that does not mean he wanted to play LF. I would guess he'd have rather have played 3B- a position he had played before. I didn't mean to imply they forced him to play LF against his will.

Yes, the Sox could conceivably be sellers next July, but if I had to bet on MN or BOS to be sellers, I'll choose the Twins.

My guess is they will be sellers at the deadline.