moonslav59

I misquoted you, sorry, but I'm not sure there's much difference in the two. Maybe your criteria for "greatness" is different from mine. He had the third best WAR for a catcher in those 7 years. Yes, that's above average, but to me, it is exceptional and great. 32 catchers with 1500 PAs 3rd in WAR at 18.2 (top 9%) 5th in OBP at .357 (top 16%) 7th in SLG .453 (top 22%) 7th in OPS at .811 (Only 3 catchers had an OPS higher than .811 last year. Tek averaged that over 7 seasons.) To me, this is certainly closer to "great" than just "above average."

I moved him down from where others have him, but I agree with your point. I really like Mata, too, so switch 'em.

Kinda low.

For 6-7 years. I guess the word "great" is subjective, but to me an .811 OPS from a catcher is great. It was 3rd best in that period. Add that to his defense and the intangibles he brought to the game, I maintain he was great for a period of time. If you want to say very good, I wouldn't argue, but "barely better than average" is way off.

I think they changed the rule based on what happened to Castillo.

You guys do a great job. Thank you!

Of course, but I'd say the consensus opinion before "hindsight" was that it was an underpay and for less years than open market expectations. Do you disagree with that assessment? Would you be happy, if the Yanks got him on those terms?

I'm so pumped up for this season!

I guess I'm still confused. Is there a way we could have gotten out from under the $2.4M deal, if nobody claims him or not?

I'll take Betts over Eovaldi + Happ.

Then, we should have just released him.

All I can say is LMAO!

You know damn well, if the Yanks signed Sale to this great deal, you'd be pumped up. Many felt he was worth $33-35M x 5 years

Some great pitchers, it doesn't matter. I agree. Some like ERod either. There is a long history of some all time greats having a personal caddy. Do all the catcher numbers with Sale and Price concern you at all? Not even a little bit?

So, if nobody claims him and we don't ask him back, we still owe him $2.4M?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Cobb had not been all that good, especially the 2-3 years before signing. Happ had a 3.43 ERA in the 3 years before signing for less than Cobb, who was at 4.20 the previous 3 years. "Much better?" Eovaldi was overpaid due to his playoff performance. I'm not sure you can claim he set a new bar for other GMs to overpay. Let's see what Keuchel gets. Where's his overpay?

I'm saying Cobb, Happ and Eovaldi are about the same. Cobb got more last year, so where's the "going up?"

Some say Eovaldi was overpaid. Sale's contract was a discount- not a FA, I know. I see no evidence the market has spiked a lot from last year. Alex Cobb got $19M. He's in the same class as Eovaldi & Happ. They got less.

I think you answered your own question. Too much was expected from Burkett & Castillo/ Tony Clark & Rey Sanchez. Still, we only had 4 holes. We did win 93 games in 2002. That's about what some are projecting this team to win.

It's a record of what pitchers were signed for who were expected to be a 3 or 4 starter. Yes, the market has changed, and the data I presented shows that.

I said, great for 6-7 years. .811 OPS for a catcher was and still is great. His defense was great. His record with pitchers was great. He got much more out of Pedro, Lowe & Beckett than almost all others. He did poorly with Wake for obvious reasons. He got more out of Schilling near the end of his career than others. Plus, he put ARod in his place. Look, Munson was great. Nettles was great. It's not that hard to admit an rival's player was great. Try it. He was great for a period of time.

More evidence that this guy is a clown.

Well, Jalen Beeks got us Eovaldi. Santiago Espinal got us Pearce. Saun Anderson & Gregory Santos got us Nunez. Stephen Nogosek, Gerson Bautista and Jamie Callahann got us Addison Reed. Are you saying we don't have farm hands like these to trade this summer?

You chose all the best contracts for your position, so here are some from another side: 2014-15 $19M x 4 Shields (declined QO) $14M x 4 Santana (declined QO) $13M x 3 Liriano (declined QO) 2015-16 $18M x 5 Samardzija (QO) $16M x 2 Lackey (QO) $16M x 3 Kazmir 2016-17 $16M x 3 R Hill $11M x 2 E Volquez $9M x 3 I Nova 2017-18 $19M x 3 ACobb $13M x 3 Chatwood 2018-2019 $17M x 2 Happ $17M x 4 Eovaldi $15M x 2 Morton $10M x 3 Lynn

Nobody will complain, except maybe in private with the manager, about a catcher they don't want catching them. There are varying degrees of comfort levels. Nobody is saying it is black or white or that I (or we) know more about the comfort levels than you and others do. The Sox have a long record of giving our best starters a personal caddy/catcher. They rarely stray from that plan, unless there's an injury. There's a reason for doing this. There's a reason Sale was caught by Leon 87% of the time and Swihart 0%. Yes, of course, Sale might quickly build up a decent comfort level with Swihart. He's had some time with Vaz (218 PAs) and still has a 1.00 better ERA with Leon. Does it tale 100 PAs, 200, 400? Does it just take practicing with the catcher in ST'ing and off days? None of us know. We do know Sale and Price did way better with Leon. With Sale, neven better than the catchers with the White Sox (in more of a pitcher's park). With Price, Vaz has more PAs than Leon, so it can't be about "building a comfort level over time," and yet with Leon we see a 1.50 better ERA! Everybody knows Price was a better pitcher with the Rays before coming to Boston. Boston is a hitter's park, and yet, Price has a better ERA with Leon than he did with almost every catcher he pitched to in Detroit & TB. ERA with BOS: 3.74 ERA with TBR: 3.18 ERA with DET: 2.90 ERA by catcher (180+ PAs) 2.30 Martin 2.67 Avila 2.78 McCann 2.83 Leon 2.85 Molina 3.06 Jaso 3.09 Navarro 3.61 Shoppach 3.75 Gimenez + Hernandez 3.86 Lobaton 4.19 Zaun 4.32 Vaz (5.73 Swihart in 48 PAs) These numbers are shocking. I'm not saying they are total predictors of what is to come, but I'm a bit surprised by some who don't seem to think there is reason for concern. I'm trying to be hopeful concerning the length of the learning curve, but I am pretty sure there will be one with Swihart and between Vaz and Sale, assuming he becomes Sale's new binky.