moonslav59

They never heard of Webstah.

We will offer JD and Betts what we think they are worth, and if they walk, we will suffer on the field. Maybe the budget relief will allow for an overall better team, but I'll believe it when I see it. Betts in buttah!

...he may need time. JD is terrible in LF, but having Chavis DH instead of _____ in CF may be a better idea.

...and no salary for luxury tax purposes!

The sample size is way too small to draw that conclusion, but there is ample evidence that certain catchers repeatedly get more out of as staff than others. It's not a fluke. It goes beyond CS%, blocked pitches in the dirt and pitch framing.

I have no issues with anyone saying we bought a championship. Even the 2004, 2007 and 2013 rings involved some heavy spending, but when those years involved spending way way less than the Yanks, I don't see it as being equal. Maybe you do. Maybe most fans don't see a difference or don't see a big enough difference to matter all that much. I'm fine with that. I just don't want us to be thought of in the same way as the Yanks were, when they, al,one, were outspending everyone had and foot, year after year after year. I see a difference, but if we keep outspending everyone year after year, I will feel like a hypocrite for not calling it what it is. It was one way us Sox fans could take solace, when we lost year after year. I guess others can forget or change their views quicker than I can. I'm not disagreeing with you and Billy, but I am pointing out the degree of difference between us now (for 2 years) and you guys for decades.

I guess I always thought of several as more than 2 and so does Webster. Being top 10 does make a difference, but for many of those years, we were much closer to the average or mean team payroll than to the Yankees at the top. The site I am looking at goes back to 1998, when the Sox were 7th at $59M (BAL was ta $72M and #15 was at $47M. The Sox were slightly closer to #15 than #1--hardly a team trying to "buy a championship", but I guess we may just be arguing semantics. In 1999, the Sox were $17M from #1 and $25M from #15. In 2000, the Sox were $15M from #1 and $19M from #15. Those times were different, and I'm not even bringing up the days of Steinbrenner's massive spending days, when compared to the rest of MLB way back when.

Well, we did win 3 rings without being close to the Yanks in spending in 2004, 2007 & 2013. Also, if you look at the differentials between the top spending team and the second place or league average, the Yankee differentials blew the Sox $27M differential out of the water just about every year. 2018 Opening Day $236M BOS $209M SFG The SF $27M differential is 11% of the Sox payroll. 2017: LAD 17% over NYY 2016: LAD 5% over NYY and 18% over BOS 2015: LAD 19% over NYY and 31% over BOS 2014 LAD 14% over NYY and 31% over BOS (Just NY & BOS listed) 2013 NYY 34% over BOS 2012 NYY 12% over BOS 2011 NYY 20% over BOS 2010 NYY 21% over BOS 2009 NYY 39% over BOS 2008 NYY 36% over BOS 2007 NYY 24% over BOS 2006 NYY 38% over BOS 2005 NYY 41% over BOS 2004 NYY 31% over BOS 2003 NYY 35% over BOS Our 11% is substantial, and outspending everyone is just what it is. I can see how someone can say, "we bought a championship," but 11 % is nothing like 20-41% the Yanks outspent us by for 9 straight years and 10 out of 11.

No. It was the first time we led the league in spending, despite you claiming we have for years, and we only had two big money free agents playing on the team- Price & JD. We outspent the next team by $27M not $50-84M. If the trend continues, yes, I will will feel a bit ashamed that our team is doing what I always despised the Yanks for doing year after year after year. I'd have preferred we won without spending so much, and our actual playing roster was not the highest paid, if you subtract Pablo & HRam, but I suppose other top spenders have dead weight, too. My point was that I don't want us to lead the league in spending, especially by wide margins, years after year. It's not just about feeling like a hypocrite, because my opinion on buying championships has not changed just because we won one while spending more. Teams have closed the gap this year, and I fully expected others to pass us this year after LAD and NYY reset their tax, but I guess the league is changing while the Sox were on top. I'm not bothered now, but I will be if we hit 3 years in a row outspending teams by $20M or more each year. It still won't be as bad as 15 years in a row by the Yanks with several years having obscene differentials.

Stanton & Andujar to the IL. Are the Yanks made of glass?

Could it affect arb numbers?

It might very well be... 2B: Pedey/Holt LF: JD CF: Beni 1B/DH: Chavis 3B/1B: Devers 3B: Dalbec C: Vaz/Swihart It may not be a bad bottom of the order.

Spoken like a true Yankee fan.

You have to admit, winning it all while spending less than the Yanks and Dodgers should feel better than winning it all while outspending everyone by $27M or more, right?

When a team outspends all other teams for 15 straight years with 10 of them by more than $22M, 8 by more than $35M and 5 by more than $55M, yes, I think that's much different from a team on their way to leading the league by $27M and then (likely) less than $20M. The Yanks outspent the Sox by 32 31 32 41 78- we won 34 40 44 79 76 46- we won 74 84 57- we won 35 No way is that the same as 27 ~20

I agree, but you are wrong about several years running. Last year was the first time we were number 1 in spending. We are likely to make that two in a row, unless someone spends heavily this summer. 2 years vs 15 years in a row is a little different, don't you think? Almost every Sox fan lambasted Yankee fans for "buying championships." My point with the Sox was about going forward. Being the highest paid team for a year or two is no where near what the Yanks were, but by not resetting soon, I was fearing that we'd approach the Yankee record of decades of blowing other teams away in spending (by much more than the Sox.) I've been thinking we'd reset. Now, I'm not so sure. If we keep spending like the Yanks did (on free agents or whatever), then the argument is sound, and I agree. 2018: Sox (SFG $27M behind) 2017: LAD (NYY $31M- BOS $32M behind NYY!!!!) 2016: LAD (NYY $10M- BOS $31M behind NYY!!!) 2015: LAD (NYY$53M- BOS $32M behing NYY!!!) 2014: LAD (NYY $32M- BOS 4th $41M behind NYY!!!!) 2013: NYY (LAD $12M- BOS $78M behing NYY and WS Champs!) 2012: NYY (PHI $23M- BOS $24M behind NYY!) 2011: NYY (PHI $29M- BOS $40M behind NYY!!!!) 2010: NYY (BOS $44M!!!!) 2009: NYY (NYM $76M!!!!!- BOD behind NYY by $79M!!!!) 2008: NYY (NYM $72M!!!!- BOS $$76M!!!!!) 2007: NYY (BOS $46M behind and a ring!!!!) 2006: NYY (BOS $74M!!!!) 2005: NYY (BOS $84M!!!!) 2004: NYY (BOS $57M!!! and a ring) 2003: NYY (NYM $35M- BOS 6th and $53M behing NYY) The Yanks led the league for 4 years (199-2002) 1998 BLA led the Yanks by $6M. 15 straight years the Yanks blew away the others. The Sox are on their way to leading the league for 2 years in a row by $27M last year and less than $20M this year.

Can you read? I've said all along we are doing what we used to hate the Yankess for doing.

The Sox have two big FA signings on the roster. JD. We had Price a while back. HRam & Pablo combined were a big commitment. Lackey-Crawford- Manny... As late as 2013-2014, the Yanks signed 4 of the 13 free agents offered a QO in ONE YEAR! (Ellsbury, Bektran, McCann & Kuroda) The Sox have never come close tot hat kind of massive FA signings.

Since Bogey's deal does not change his salary this year, I'm under the impression the tax hit will be $12M this year and then $20M for the next 6 years, assuming no opt out.

If we stay just $1M under the max line every year, we can avoid a "cliff." I still don't think that is the plan, but with all these extensions and talk of more extensions, I'm not so sure.

I care. I feel like I'd be a hypocrite, if I didn't.

The sample size is small, but I do wonder...

I hope you are right, and although Henry is not the micro-manager and general a-hole Steinbrenner was, I hope we are not viewed like the Yankees were for decades. There will be no "cliff," if we don't reset. I've always thought we would reset at some point, but it's looking like we won't.

So, it's... $millions 31 Price 26 Sale 22 JDM 20 Bogey 17 Eovaldi 14 Pedey 4 Vaz____ 133 under contract Arb estimates ~ $ millions 28 Betts 12 JBJ 8 ERod 5 Barnes 5 Beni 2 Hembree 2 Wright 2 Workman 2 Swihart___ 66 Total Arb costs $199 TOTAL (16 players) $16 (24 players- pre-arb & minors) $15M Benefits $230M TOTAL (No Porcello, Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, Holt, Thornburg) No reset after this year, unless we trade serious salary. 2020's luxury tax line will be $208M. $228M line will be crossed $248M line can be avoided by spending under about $18M. If this is the goal, we can keep Holt and sign a decent pitcher or two. The rest will have to be filled by Chavis/Dalbec, DHernandez & Lakins/Feltman/Poyner

cots has it wrong. Yes, add $3M.