moonslav59

They both are unreliable. I'm not sure what your point is.

That's highly debatable. I'm not saying the Price part of the deal could be viewed as a push or a plus for LA, but I don't think they wanted him, even at half "price."

You know they asked for Price or think they did? It was my impression the Sox insisted on them talking Price and the negotiations were mostly about how much money we had to give them. (The Maeda for Graterol deal was made after the initial deal fell through, so it's hard to argue they had that deal planned, knowing they were getting Price.)

Would you have said this 10 days ago? Does such a small sample size really decide issues like this, definitively?

Do you think LA asked for Price and $16M per year? If no, wouldn't you expect something in return, even if minor?

Slightly more, yes. Maybe Verdugo/Downs and Graterol/Maeda

I'm not saying this site has the best value numbers, but who on this list do you think is "over-valued?" Mine are in red. 83.9 Devers 62.3 Verdugo 33.7 Bogaerts 26.4 Downs 22.2 Casas 19.7 Dalbec 17.6 Chavis 14.4 Vazquez 12.4 Mata 12.1 Duran 10.5 D Hern 9.0 ERod (due to injury) 8.5 Jimenez 8.5 Taylor 6.0 Lugo 5.6 Perez 4.9 Chatham 4.8 Pivetta 4.5 Potts 3.8 Song 3.6 Beni 3.0 Murphy

My whole point is based on finding a way to get someone more reliable by adding others to the trade. I'm not expecting an ace- just durability.

I wanted us to get Maeda with Verdugo, but I think Bloom wanted prospects.

"Nutty" might mean more quantity (like smaller 1-2 year deals) than quality. This could be our opening day 26 man roster: SP1________ SP2 Perez SP3 Eovaldi SP4 ERod SP5 _____ SP6 Pivetta/Seabold RP1 ______ RP2 ______ RP3 Barnes RP4 D Hern RP5 Taylor RP6 Valdez RP7 Brasier C Vazquez, Plawecki 1B ______, Chavis 2B ______, Arroyo/ Munoz 3B Devers SS Bogey LF Beni CF ____, Lin RF Verdugo DH JD That's signing just 3 everyday players to bridge to 2022. BTW, I think Dalbec & Houck make the opening day roster,but I can see one or both being given some time in AAA.

I get your point, but Bloom is not getting good production from some of the big contracts on this team, and with the limited budget he was given, this year, he has made deals like a small market would do. The real test will come if and when Henry opens the wallet. Let's see what he does, then. Hopefully, he will make the types of additions he made in TB, but will be able to afford to do more of them and maaybe get better ones by offering them a little more than he could do with the Rays. I doubt he sticks to a small market approach, but some sort of middle ground might work best.

Not many, but the trades gave us upgrades at other positions and/or saved us some money that could be used to improve a FA pitcher signing to a higher quality. I will say, I'd rather have almost any of these pitchers over Eovaldi, except maybe Zimmerman and Syndergaard (I did not realize he had just 1 year left.)

He minimized the return for Betts by including Price (IMO).

There's better than him out there.

None of these suggestions are for "top pitchers," except maybe Syndergaard (but taking Familai's deal is a major salary offset) and some are for prospect pitchers: These teams have the lowest catcher WAR 2019-2020 combined: (Vaz, Chavis & Eovaldi are valued at 13.1- here is close to equal value) -3.9 TEX (Odor -26, LeClerc 16.8, Taveras 12.6 & Hernandez C-1B minors) -3.5 DET (Zimmerman -4.5, Boyd 5.7 & Goodrum 12.0)) -2.6 COL (Blackmon -11.6, Freeland 16.8 & Amador 2B minors 7.6) 0.4 LAA (Upton -47, Canning 17.8 & Marsh OF minors 36.0) 0.7 NYM (Syndergaard, Familia & Greene OF minors) 0.9 STL (Fowler -19.8, Gallegos 26 & Reyes 5.3) 1.3 WSH (Castro -2.2, Rainey 10.7 or Suero 9.9 & de la Rosa OF minors 2.6) 1.8 TBR (Kiermaier -6.5 & Baz +19.5)

I think a lot of teams would want Vaz. If we find some sort of salary offset, like the ones I mentioned a while back that is added to the return to us, maybe something can be found. I'm not saying it's a cinch. Carrasco is not reliable, so I would not trade Vaz & Eovaldi for him.

I doubt we trade Eovaldi, and I don't think it will be easy to find takers, even by sweetening the pot with Vaz and.or Chavis, but many teams need a catcher badly. We might see the downgrade from Vaz to Plawecki, Grullon & Wong as worth the upgrade at SP'er. I'm not thinking we'll get a top SP'er. My position was we might get a more reliable and better pitcher-maybe one that costs as much as Eovaldi + Vaz.

I never said a top starter. I said one better than Eovaldi by the value added from Vaz and or Chavis. That's likely not a "top starter." A trade I remember: Giants Trade Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano & Boof Bonser for A.J. Pierzynski Also, Buckner for Eckersley, Dan Haren for Carlos Gonzalez, Sutcliffe for Joe Carter., Ferggie Jenkins for Bill Madlock, Kevin Brown for D Lee +, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fergosi, Steve Carlton for Rick Wise.

I'm not sure JBJ is a great defender, anymore, and at $6.5M x 2, I think we can get better D for cheaper.

It's probably rarer to see a catcher like Vaz traded. They are hard to find. While Chavis is not a prospect, including him in a deal may have the same affect.

It has "hamstrung" us several times, but we've never won a ring without at least 2 major long term contracts on the books. One could argue we have that now with Bogey and Sale, now, but neither were 7+ yr deals.

I'm not saying "This is the year," and in some ways it makes more sense to wait a year or two, but to me, it's all about who Bloom sees as "the guy." We want to be much better next year without harming the longer outlook. If Bloom sees a guy he really likes, he may pounce this winter. He likely will not.

Replacing some of the names on the list of 2019 departees is addition by subtraction. I'm not expecting a ring in 2021, but 2022 is not out of the question, if we spend up to the limit line and maybe the over it for 2022. (We also lose Pedey's deal after 2021.) We could be looking at $80-100M/yr we can spend on FAs over the next 2 years. If Bloom is as thrifty as we think he can be, that's a lot of added talent to put with Devers, JD, a healthy Sale (2022), Bogey, Vaz, and maybe Eovaldi. We'd only need a few of our players & farm hands to play key roles- maybe DHern, Dalbec, Houck, Arroyo/Munoz/Downs/Chavis, among others.

No, I don't, and my original statement was about Bloom possibly identifying someone he thinks can be a big value for the longterm. I don't pretend to know more than him, and I trust he is a good evaluator. Maybe he doesn't see anyone like that on this winter's FA list, but if he does, I don't see why waiting another year helps. We likely need 2-3 pretty big named players or under the radar types that become big additions. My thoughts are about the idea that waiting to get them all at once might be harder than picking up the players we really want when they become available. Maybe it's one a year for 3 years, none this year, 2 next year and 1 in 2023. I'm just thinking we have the budget space, and if Bloom sees someone he likes, this winter, I'd say go for it. Personally, I'm not high on Bauer, Realmuto or Springer, but if Bloom likes one and goes for it, I won't judge him harshly, except maybe in hindsight. His plan may be to sign some very decent FAs, but not the big 3 or 4. He may have to sign them to 3-5 year deals at pretty decent numbers. Spreading the risk makes sense, and keeping the deals under 4-5 years does, too, but who knows who we can get on non long term deals. Again, any big signing or addition we make this winter would not be about winning it all in 2021. It would be about the longer term with the added bonus of making us more fun to watch in 2021 and maybe even competing for a playoff slot.

The issue is with the word "proven."