moonslav59

I hadn't noticed, but yes! WOW! (Only 17 IP, though.)

I'm lad we got 5 years of Verdugo plus Downs and Wong for 1 shortened season of Betts. I'm glad we have the $16M budget space from the Price part of the deal, but I do think it's entirely possible Price pitches well enough to have earned that much or more. I just don't see having a 35-36 year old pitcher making $31M a year for 3 years as being an essential part to a rebuild. I'm hopeful the next players we sign end up being more durable and productive than Price, Eovaldi, Sale, Pablito & HRam. Tht's 5 massive contracts with very little to show for it.

True, and the weird thing is neither are most of the guys he got back.

I think the 3rd year is big for 34 year olds, and I still think the Dodgers would have preferred not to take Price at that reduced cost. I said it was close. I'm not sure why this has generated so much discussion. Not mush else to talk about, I guess.

soxprospects.com September 21, 2020 at 4:32 PM Scouting Report Update: Jacob Wallace Last Friday, the Red Sox announced they had acquired Jacob Wallace from Colorado as the player to be named later for Kevin Pillar. The deal now stands at Pillar and cash considerations for Wallace and international bonus slot money. Wallace was Colorado's third-round pick in 2019 out of the University of Connecticut and is set to debut in the SoxProspects.com top 20 in the coming days. This makes him the fourth prospect acquired at the trade deadline to debut in the current top 20. Here is Wallace's initial scouting report, compiled from available data and reports, as well as our scouting sources across the game. Physical Description: Average, proportional frame with minimal remaining projection. Above-average athlete. Mechanics: Throws from a three-quarters arm slot. High-effort delivery. High leg kick, but gets low coming forward. Long arm action behind before he whips his arm forward. Fastball: 93-95 mph. Tops out at 97 mph. Pitch shows life and tail. Pitch jumps on hitters. Command and control need refinement. Potential plus offering. Slider: 84-86 mph. Long, sweeping pitch with above-average depth. True swing-and-miss pitch with major league out pitch potential with development. Potential above-average offering. Changeup: Third pitch that he will use on occasion with late, arm-side movement. Did not throw the pitch in college and only added it after signing. Career Notes: Originally from Methuen, Massachusetts, he starred at Methuen High before becoming the closer at UConn. Pitched for Bourne in the 2018 Cape Cod League, where he was named the co-recipient of the John Claffey New England Top Prospect Award and was named a CCBL All-Star. Summation: Potential relief type. Ceiling of a closer. Fastball/slider combination is very intriguing in a bullpen role. Potential for two above-average pitches at least and a unique delivery that gives hitters a very different look on the mound. Unclear at this point if the Red Sox will try to develop him as a starter, as he does also have a changeup. Command and control need refinement in order to reach his potential. Very intense on the mound, always competes.

It's certainly nice to see some hopes and bright promises as the season nears its end. I'm more hopeful now than I was earlier this year, but the jury is still out on many of the players we are talking about: Houck, Pivetta, Valdez, Dalbec, Munoz & Arroyo. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, and I have a good amount of optimism about our future, but there's a lot to learn about everyone of these guys. The good thing is, there are 6 that are looking good, and we may not need even 4 of them to come through.

Remember all those suggested salary dump suggested trades of Price or Eovaldi for Wil Myers? Myers is flirting with a 1,000 OPS, this season.

The differences between the two are too extreme to make a good comp. That being said, there are plenty of instances where injury- prone pitchers have gotten fat deals and sometimes for 3 or more years, but how many at his age? I've never argued $16M x 3 is an extreme overpay, so it seems like this whole debate has morphed into something I never intended it to be. I get how several posters think the Dodgers wanted Price at $16M/3. I disagree, but I don't think it's a crazy position to hold. Once can find several examples of one GM who seemingly pays someone more or way more than some of us think anyone else would or should pay. Can anyone find other 34 year old SP'ers who pitched about 63 GS'd or 360 IP his previous 3 seasons with an ERA+ of about 122 that got a contract for $16M x 3? I'm not saying there's nobody that fits that bill. My guess is some GM did it, but I'm curious, if it has happened in recent years.

We don't have a 40 man roster crunch, so even if we add 7-9 FAs, we'll have guys like Lin sticking around. I count 15-17 players at about the same low value as Lin on our 40 man roster.

Like $0 for 2020?

One could argue ERod/Eovaldi/Sale = 1, 1.5 or 2 max slots total.

I agree. He may end up signing a minor league deal with us- knowing we need depth at 2B, SS and CF.

It was notin, not me, but more IP'd at a very nice WAR rate is a plus.

His first season was not "awful." Disappointing, yes. Not great, yes. "Awful," no. 14-11 4.40 ERA+ 99 (1.419 WHIP is pretty bad.)

I never caalled him a horse and even provided data that showed that while he had more IP than Price in his previous 2 seasons, he had less in his previous 3 seasons. I didn't bring up Morton's name to support my position. I only responded to a post about him and Happ. He also did not get 3 years.

I mentioned his 2018 playoff heroics and stated my view that most recent 2-3 years matter more than career numbers. It's what I've always used, so this is not some tweak to my philosophy to support this position. Price was a horse when we signed him. That's the main reason I was okay with the signing. Almost everyone agreed the latter years were likely to be problematic, and it turned out the middle years ended up being so. This about where Price was at the end of 2019 and what his perceived value was. I'm not calling anyone nuts for thinking he was worth close to $16M a year, but I do take issue with the 3 years part. I firmly believe it was the Sox who demanded LA take him. Maybe the money "evened out" that part of the deal, but my guess is we'd have gotten slightly more had Price not been part of the deal. Maybe, someday, the details will emerge.

Could work. $17M is a lot to spend on a closer, but if it can keep him healthy, fine with me. I might want a 1 and 3 starter or 2 and 3, not a 1 and 5 starter.

I never said outlandish. I also think what you've done over the last 2-4 years means more than what you did 4-10 years ago. Sure, career number matter, but IMO, recent numbers matter more. Durability matters, too. The third year matters at that age. I agreed he might get $15M/1 or $28M/2, but I think $45M/3 is more than probably any team would offer. Yes, it only takes one GM, and there are countless of examples of injury-prone pitchers being signed to crazy deals, but maybe not many at age 34.

If Bloom chooses to go quantity over quality, we may have the ability to keep some prospects in the minors a little longer. Bloom seems to be good at finding lower paid players that perform better than expected. I'm not againts letting Bloom do his thing. With a 40 man roster that has 15-20 players that are "bubble types," I could see us signing 7-10 players that have a good chance of making the 26 man roster, and maybe a half dozen good minor league signings. My philosophy is usually more towards quality over quantity, but with our roster depth so weak, this may be the time to add a lot of players. I'd still like to see us acquire a better-than-decent player or two this winter that would help us beyond 2021, and it's possible we do both. If we decide to go more towards quality, it makes sense to determine what positions are the weakest while looking at what we have already that can possible fill those needs at an adequate or better-than-the-other guys filling in slots are. Here's how I view the slots we have open and who can fill-in or win the slots, next year: Assuming Perez & Eovaldi are penciled into the rotation and maybe one from ERod and Sale fill another.... (Not in order of biggest need) SP4: ______ (Pivetta) SP5: Pivetta/Houk ______ SP6+: Seabold/Mata/Ward ______ RP1: _______ (Barnes) RP2: _______ (DHern) RP5: _______ (Valdez) RP6: _______ (Brasier) CF: ________ (Duran/Wilson/Lin) 2B: ________ (Arroyo/Chavis/Munoz/Lin/Arauz/Chatham/Downs) 1B: ________ (Dalbec, Chavis) 4th OF:______ (Duran/Wilsonm/Lin) To me, the worst filli-ns we have are pitching and OF. I think we may put off signings at 2B and 1B until the summer or next winter, if nobody wins the job by then. We sign 2 SP'ers and maybe some good minor league depth SP'ers We sign 3-4 RP'ers We sign a CF'er and 4th OF'er (maybe one that can play 1B or 2B, too) That's 7-9 minimum that make the 26 man roster. (Sale starts on the IL.) SP1 _____ SP2 Perez SP3 Eovaldi SP4 ERod SP5 _____ SP6 Houck/Pivetta (Sale) Closer ______ RP2 ______ RP3 Barnes RP4 DHern RP5 Taylor RP6 ______ RP7 ______/Brasier C Vazquez/Plawecki 1B Dalbec/Chavis 2B Arroyo/Munoz 3B Devers SS Bogaerts LF: Benintendi CF: _______, _______ RF: Verdugo DH: Martinez

Othani was not brought up as a 2 way player in America, but he's the only recent one I can think f that has shown he can be good at both.

Morton was the same age as Price and had started 55 games in his previous 2 seasons with an ERA+ of 113 and 133. He got less money and less years than $16M x 3. Happ re-signed with the Yanks in 2018 after starting 56 games in his previous 2 years and 88 in his previous 3 years. His ERA+ was 163, 143 and 193 those 3 years. He was 35 when he signed- a little older than Price was when traded. Price started 52 games in the 2 years before being traded. He started 63 in his previous 3 seasons. His ERA+ was 76, 177, 128. He was 34 when traded. I'm not getting all the Price love after he was almost constantly bashed his whole time here, except for the last 2 rounds of the 2018 playoffs. Previous 3 year totals: Price: 122 ERA+, 63 GS/358 IP Happ: 125 ERA+, 88 GS/518 IP Morton: 121 ERA+, 59 GS/331 IP (was injured 3 years before signing.) -- 2 yrs 123 ERA+ 55 GS/314 IP Sure, some injury prone pitchers have gotten wild deals that seem unfathomable, and maybe some GM would take a chance like that, but I'd take the Morton and Happ deals over a 3 year deal for Price.

That's what I think. Bloom insisted on LA taking Price, just like we insisted the Dodgers take Crawford to get AG. Had we not included Price, we might have gotten Verdugo and Strippling or Gonsolin. It appears we could have gotten Maeda but chose not to.

Maybe someday, one GM will talk in detail about the working of the deal. I could be wrong. I have been before, but I just don't see that kind of value in Price at his age and with his injury history. Maybe $16M x 1 or $28M x 2 would be the highest I think anyone would go, but $16M x 3? Most fibers in my being think no.

Nobody wanted Price at $32M x 3. I doubt anyone would have signed him for $16M x 3, last winter, so why would anyone trade for him?

I think he makes the opening day roster, because we have like 7 gaping holes in a 13 man staff. That being said, I don't think 2 game sample sizes decide much in MLB.